6/11 @ Mariners

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

BARNES & ROBLES. Save on books but not on ballgames.

[illinoisredsox]

Hell, right now it wouldn't hurt to give me a look.

 

Nah. You had your shot on August 24, 1940 in the first game of a doubleheader against Detroit. Don't you remember? You went 2 innings, allowing 1 run on 3 hits with one K. For some reason, they never gave you another shot on the mound.

 

 

 

 

Those were TW's actual MLB pitching stats.

[iortiz]

And yet, people will keep saying that pitching in the 9th is the same.

 

We need a named damned closer. Stop your stupid experiments. Give Houck the role and see. He’s the best option right now. Let him adapt to the position.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Nah. You had your shot on August 24, 1940 in the first game of a doubleheader against Detroit. Don't you remember? You went 2 innings, allowing 1 run on 3 hits with one K. For some reason, they never gave you another shot on the mound.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those were TW's actual MLB pitching stats.

 

You're right; I had forgotten about that and I also forgot who the guy was I struck out. It's a bitch being dead. I just wish that the AL had implemented the DH when I was playing. Those morons waited too long.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

You're right; I had forgotten about that and I also forgot who the guy was I struck out. It's a bitch being dead. I just wish that the AL had implemented the DH when I was playing. Those morons waited too long.

 

I just remembered who I struck out. It was Story's great great grandfather.

[illinoisredsox]

You're right; I had forgotten about that and I also forgot who the guy was I struck out. It's a bitch being dead. I just wish that the AL had implemented the DH when I was playing. Those morons waited too long.

 

Actually, it was Rudy York looking.

 

It must also be a bitch with your head being detached and cryogenically frozen. This is getting a bit ghoulish. Maybe we can get Mel Brooks to make a movie.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Actually, it was Rudy York looking.

 

It must also be a bitch with your head being detached and cryogenically frozen. This is getting a bit ghoulish. Maybe we can get Mel Brooks to make a movie.

 

It's more than a bitch because there's ice cream sandwiches in this same freezer and I can't grab one.

[TylerD]

If you are referring to Roberto Osuna, I don’t want that piece of s*** human anywhere near the Sox roster

 

Alright

 

Clearly I’m missing something. He must have done some bad s***. Regardless we need a closer badly

[Maxbialystock]

4th blown save for that *******. Houck is our closer!!!! f*** you Cora you f***ing moron. Thanks a lot

 

I'm going to remind you of this now and then. Why? Because Houck has never demonstrated he is a bonafide closer--including the lucky save, needing 22 pitches to get 3 outs, he was awarded Friday night.

 

Also because Houck is starting today, which he has a much better skill set to do well. In fact, he has started far more often than he has closed. Cora would rather use him as a reliever, but he's fresh out of starters.

 

Also because Robles may stink right now as a closer, but he has done that job before with a modicum of success. Plus he had the 4th lowest ERA on the staff going into last night's game.

 

If you are looking for, in your words, a "f***ing moron," you make take a peek in the mirror sometime.

[moonslav59]

Pretty hard to dispute that.

 

But would we if we had that closer at the expense of not having Story or Wacha, Hill and Strahm?

[Bellhorn04]

But would we if we had that closer at the expense of not having Story or Wacha, Hill and Strahm?

 

I'm thinking more about cheaper relievers who are actually good.

 

Just for one example, a guy like Phelps of the Jays.

[Old Red]

I'm going to remind you of this now and then. Why? Because Houck has never demonstrated he is a bonafide closer--including the lucky save, needing 22 pitches to get 3 outs, he was awarded Friday night.

 

Also because Houck is starting today, which he has a much better skill set to do well. In fact, he has started far more often than he has closed. Cora would rather use him as a reliever, but he's fresh out of starters.

 

Also because Robles may stink right now as a closer, but he has done that job before with a modicum of success. Plus he had the 4th lowest ERA on the staff going into last night's game.

 

If you are looking for, in your words, a "f***ing moron," you make take a peek in the mirror sometime.

 

Wrong again, because Kutter Crawford is starting today. Wow Robles had the 4th lowest ERA, and what he’s done before matters what now? No Houck has never demonstrated he’s a bonafide closer, but how many opportunities has he had. If Cora would have made Whitlock the closer opening day we wouldn’t be still talking about closing, we would have more wins, and maybe Whitlock wouldn’t be injured from the so called Whitlock as a starter experiment.

[Bellhorn04]

Wrong again, because Kutter Crawford is starting today. Wow Robles had the 4th lowest ERA, and what he’s done before matters what now? No Houck has never demonstrated he’s a bonafide closer, but how many opportunities has he had. If Cora would have made Whitlock the closer opening day we wouldn’t be still talking about closing, we would have more wins, and maybe Whitlock wouldn’t be injured from the so called Whitlock as a starter experiment.

 

Well, maybe Whitlock would have gotten injured if he was closer, too...

[Old Red]

Well, maybe Whitlock would have gotten injured if he was closer, too...

 

Failed experiment to me, but just an opinion. ANYTHING’s POSSIBLE!

[moonslav59]

I'm thinking more about cheaper relievers who are actually good.

 

Just for one example, a guy like Phelps of the Jays.

 

But, isn't it easy to look at current stats and say, we should have signed so and so on the cheap?

 

We took a stab at Strahm, Diekman and Robles. We missed on 2, so far.

 

We hoped Sale would be healthy and Whitlock and Houck could be in the pen FT. We were wrong, there, too.

 

Maybe we hoped Barnes could regain some semblance of his former self- wrong.

 

Maybe we hoped Taylor, one of our best RP'ers over the last 2-3 years would not injure his back- wrong.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect just one of these wrong choices to have worked out. IMO, only one working out might have made a huge difference. If 2 worked out, we might be praising the pen, right now.

[Bellhorn04]

But, isn't it easy to look at current stats and say, we should have signed so and so on the cheap?

 

We took a stab at Strahm, Diekman and Robles. We missed on 2, so far.

 

We hoped Sale would be healthy and Whitlock and Houck could be in the pen FT. We were wrong, there, too.

 

Maybe we hoped Barnes could regain some semblance of his former self- wrong.

 

Maybe we hoped Taylor, one of our best RP'ers over the last 2-3 years would not injure his back- wrong.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect just one of these wrong choices to have worked out. IMO, only one working out might have made a huge difference. If 2 worked out, we might be praising the pen, right now.

 

I think Bloom has done lots of good things, but the pen is bad, and that's on him.

[Old Red]

I think Bloom has done lots of good things, but the pen is bad, and that's on him.

 

I second the notion that the pen is bad, and that’s on Bloom.

[moonslav59]

I think Bloom has done lots of good things, but the pen is bad, and that's on him.

 

No doubt. I've never disagreed on this. I've tried to explain his possible reasoning, but not as a way to excuse the failure. A GM needs to plan for injuries like Taylor and Sale, shortcomings like Diekman and Robles, and other factors, but again, I come back to the GMs need to stay withing a budget limit and having numerous holes to fill- some rather large, like replacing ERod and finding a 2Bman, and 3, 4 starter not just a closer.

 

Bloom chose other slots as higher priorities. There is still 2/3 of the season remaining and a trade deadline to try and fix some of the shortcomings.

 

The Story signing may still prove to be a major plus.

 

The Wacha, Strahm and Hill additions look good to very good, so far.

 

The Diekman & Robles signings have been big failures, so far, and yes, that is on Bloom.

[Maxbialystock]

Wrong again, because Kutter Crawford is starting today. Wow Robles had the 4th lowest ERA, and what he’s done before matters what now? No Houck has never demonstrated he’s a bonafide closer, but how many opportunities has he had. If Cora would have made Whitlock the closer opening day we wouldn’t be still talking about closing, we would have more wins, and maybe Whitlock wouldn’t be injured from the so called Whitlock as a starter experiment.

 

1. My bad on Houck vs. Crawford--I believed today's OP. Of course, we might also see Houck in relief today.

2. Your insistence that Houck and/or Whitlock should have been closing from day one flies in the face of Cora's demonstrated ability to get the most out of his pitching staffs, including his bullpens. You and TylerD both seem to think he's an idiot.

3. Both Houck and Whitlock have demonstrated they are good at long relief and even at starting. As I keep reminding you, the rules of MLB allow opposing teams to score in any inning, not just the 9th. The value of Houck and Whitlock was/is the ability to throw more than one inning in relief--and even more as starters.

4. Neither Whitlock nor Houck has demonstrated an ability to close--mostly, I quite agree, because Cora wants to use them differently. Nevertheless, we did see Houck close Friday night, and I think he was more lucky than good: 22 pitches needed, plus he gave up a hit and a hard hit out.

4. Last year for, what, half a season, we saw what a real closer looked like--Barnes with his mammoth knuckle curve alternating with that upper 90's fastball. Before last year, Barnes used a bigger repertoire and was middling successful as a reliever. But once that knuckle curve got good, he just needed those two pitches to get 3 guys out when needed. In 2013 Koji Uehara had a slow fastball (87 mph?), a nasty splitter, great command, and the guts of a cat burglar. In the 2018 regular season Kimbrel used basically what Barnes did last year--a great knuckle curve and high velocity fastball (even faster than Barnes's last year). Nobody, but nobody on this team reminds me of Barnes when he was good, Kimbrel, Uehara, Papelbon, et al.

5. Robles has closed successfully in the past. Whatever he is throwing has been reasonably effective this season--except when he is closing.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

1. My bad on Houck vs. Crawford--I believed today's OP. Of course, we might also see Houck in relief today.

2. Your insistence that Houck and/or Whitlock should have been closing from day one flies in the face of Cora's demonstrated ability to get the most out of his pitching staffs, including his bullpens. You and TylerD both seem to think he's an idiot.

3. Both Houck and Whitlock have demonstrated they are good at long relief and even at starting. As I keep reminding you, the rules of MLB allow opposing teams to score in any inning, not just the 9th. The value of Houck and Whitlock was/is the ability to throw more than one inning in relief--and even more as starters.

4. Neither Whitlock nor Houck has demonstrated an ability to close--mostly, I quite agree, because Cora wants to use them differently. Nevertheless, we did see Houck close Friday night, and I think he was more lucky than good: 22 pitches needed, plus he gave up a hit and a hard hit out.

4. Last year for, what, half a season, we saw what a real closer looked like--Barnes with his mammoth knuckle curve alternating with that upper 90's fastball. Before last year, Barnes used a bigger repertoire and was middling successful as a reliever. But once that knuckle curve got good, he just needed those two pitches to get 3 guys out when needed. In 2013 Koji Uehara had a slow fastball (87 mph?), a nasty splitter, great command, and the guts of a cat burglar. In the 2018 regular season Kimbrel used basically what Barnes did last year--a great knuckle curve and high velocity fastball (even faster than Barnes's last year). Nobody, but nobody on this team reminds me of Barnes when he was good, Kimbrel, Uehara, Papelbon, et al.

5. Robles has closed successfully in the past. Whatever he is throwing has been reasonably effective this season--except when he is closing.

 

Stop making sense, Max. It falls on too many deaf ears.

 

This is the guy who said we'd have 8-10 more wins with a solid closer, despite the fact that we were 26-3 when leading in the 9th, at the time.

 

Facts don't work on silly clowns.

[Old Red]

1. My bad on Houck vs. Crawford--I believed today's OP. Of course, we might also see Houck in relief today.

2. Your insistence that Houck and/or Whitlock should have been closing from day one flies in the face of Cora's demonstrated ability to get the most out of his pitching staffs, including his bullpens. You and TylerD both seem to think he's an idiot.

3. Both Houck and Whitlock have demonstrated they are good at long relief and even at starting. As I keep reminding you, the rules of MLB allow opposing teams to score in any inning, not just the 9th. The value of Houck and Whitlock was/is the ability to throw more than one inning in relief--and even more as starters.

4. Neither Whitlock nor Houck has demonstrated an ability to close--mostly, I quite agree, because Cora wants to use them differently. Nevertheless, we did see Houck close Friday night, and I think he was more lucky than good: 22 pitches needed, plus he gave up a hit and a hard hit out.

4. Last year for, what, half a season, we saw what a real closer looked like--Barnes with his mammoth knuckle curve alternating with that upper 90's fastball. Before last year, Barnes used a bigger repertoire and was middling successful as a reliever. But once that knuckle curve got good, he just needed those two pitches to get 3 guys out when needed. In 2013 Koji Uehara had a slow fastball (87 mph?), a nasty splitter, great command, and the guts of a cat burglar. In the 2018 regular season Kimbrel used basically what Barnes did last year--a great knuckle curve and high velocity fastball (even faster than Barnes's last year). Nobody, but nobody on this team reminds me of Barnes when he was good, Kimbrel, Uehara, Papelbon, et al.

5. Robles has closed successfully in the past. Whatever he is throwing has been reasonably effective this season--except when he is closing.

Throwing words out like idiot. How classy lassy that is. I ve heard before that Cora is a magician with the BP, but his act has gone stale.in other words his act is only good for so long.

[Old Red]

Stop making sense, Max. It falls on too many deaf ears.

 

This is the guy who said we'd have 8-10 more wins with a solid closer, despite the fact that we were 26-3 when leading in the 9th, at the time.

 

Facts don't work on silly clowns.

 

Throwing the words out like silly clowns is another predictable move by you. Mass has given you the BP stats more than once, but you refuse to listen, which is no surprise at all.

[moonslav59]

Throwing the words out like silly clowns is another predictable move by you. Mass has given you the BP stats more than once, but you refuse to listen, which is no surprise at all.

 

Our pen sucks. I've never denied it. Acting like I have denied it is being like a silly clown, and it's very predictable, because it's all yo act like.

 

At the risk of being accused of defendin g our horrible pen, these are some stats, too:

 

OPS Against

.657 Pen (which includes 7 IBB)

.687 SP (no IBB)

 

ERA

3.61 SP

3.75 Pen

 

BA

.223 Pen

.234 SP

 

HRs Allowed

26 in 1001 PAs Pen

41 in 1228 PAs SP

 

XBHs

60 in 1001 PAs Pen

100 in 1228 PA SP

 

Again, I am not presenting these stats to say I think the pen has done well or b etter than our starters. Other factors are involved in doing a comp like this, but some stats show the pen has done well at a lot of things, except saving games and keeping ghost runners from scoring.

Edited June 12, 2022 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

Our pen sucks. I've never denied it. Acting like I have denied it is being like a silly clown, and it's very predictable, because it's all yo act like.

 

Call me all the names you want, but like I said Tony Mass has thrown out bullpen stats during the broadcast, which you continue to ignore. Dig into that 26-3 a little bit deaper.

[moonslav59]

Call me all the names you want, but like I said Tony Mass has thrown out bullpen stats during the broadcast, which you continue to ignore. Dig into that 26-3 a little bit deaper.

 

How is saying the pen sucks ignoring they suck?

 

What you ignore is the fact that traditional closers don't come into tie games very often. You think a solid closer would have pitched in every situation where a RP'er gave up the lead or turned a lead into a tie.

 

26-3 (now 30-3) when leading going into the 9th is not an illusion.

 

It's the 1-6 record when tied going into the 9th, or where we took the lead in the 9th, like last night, but lost it that weighs heavily on our pen. I have never denied or tried to hide those numbers, either. I've posted them several times, along with the 2-7 record in extra innings.

 

NEVER have I denied or minimized the fact that our pen has allowed the opponents to win games that were winnable going into the 9th, 10th or 11th. Our pen has sucked at finishing the job. How many more ways do I need to say it.

 

Your claim that a solid closer would have won many more games is likely true, but how many is up for debate, since a solid closer would not have b een on the mound in many of those key games, and we don't know how perfect they'd have done.

 

Then, would the wins they created outweighed the wins Story, Wacha or others have given us that would be taken away by the either.or choice.

 

Did Tony Mass discuss that? Using your classic statement, "He ignores it."

[Old Red]

How is saying the pen sucks ignoring they suck?

 

What you ignore is the fact that traditional closers don't come into tie games very often. You think a solid closer would have pitched in every situation where a RP'er gave up the lead or turned a lead into a tie.

 

26-3 (now 30-3) when leading going into the 9th is not an illusion.

 

It's the 1-6 record when tied going into the 9th, or where we took the lead in the 9th, like last night, but lost it that weighs heavily on our pen. I have never denied or tried to hide those numbers, either. I've posted them several times, along with the 2-7 record in extra innings.

 

NEVER have I denied or minimized the fact that our pen has allowed the opponents to win games that were winnable going into the 9th, 10th or 11th. Our pen has sucked at finishing the job. How many more ways do I need to say it.

 

Your claim that a solid closer would have won many more games is likely true, but how many is up for debate, since a solid closer would not have b een on the mound in many of those key games, and we don't know how perfect they'd have done.

 

Then, would the wins they created outweighed the wins Story, Wacha or others have given us that would be taken away by the either.or choice.

 

Did Tony Mass discuss that? Using your classic statement, "He ignores it."

Remember the Red Sox only made the postseason by 1 game last year, so everyone counts, and last night is just the latest example. Just listening to Cora on the pregame talking about last night he still doesn’t have a clue on what to do. Once again I agree with you that Tony Mass is right.

[Jasonbay44]

Alright

 

Clearly I’m missing something. He must have done some bad s***. Regardless we need a closer badly

 

He was involved a disturbing domestic violence case, suspended nearly half a season and hasn’t been in league since, probably for the better.

[Tedballgame]

If this team had a great closer they would have probably 5 more wins than they have now, if not more.

 

They would have at least 10 more wins with a good closer.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom still has time to enact some improvements.