6/1/22 cin @ bos

[redsoxrules]

Good outing for Whitclock but zero Ks tonight. This is concerning as his K rate keeps decreasing. If the trends continues he won't be successful as too many balls are going into play

[Old Red]

Yup; he had everything working. Do you still want him to close? Just asking.

 

Even if he had pitched a perfect game tonight I would still say he’s the best option as the closer. It’s never been about his ability to start, but the fact they don’t have a reliable closer. I like the Whitlock- Houck combo though.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Honestly, it's hard to evaluate a pitcher's performance against such a poor hitting team. But, otoh, he did show great command of his pitches tonight.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

If the SOX get a HAUL, it has to include OATES.

 

Years ago the St Louis Blues hockey team had HULL and OATES.

Edited June 2, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[JDavis76]

Good outing for Whitclock but zero Ks tonight. This is concerning as his K rate keeps decreasing. If the trends continues he won't be successful as too many balls are going into play

 

Would be a bigger deal if many of those balls are hit to devers

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Would be a bigger deal if many of those balls are hit to devers

 

I'm convinced that anyone who continues to dis Devers is nothing more than a troll.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

JD back to suffering his Tourettes of swinging at low outside pitches.

He just can't control that tic unless he's at 451 Fahrenheit.

Edited June 2, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

When JBJ goes to left, more often than not it's a base hit.

[Old Red]

When JBJ goes to right, more often than not it's a base hit.

 

JBJ for t h r e e!

[moonslav59]

Well, now. Wasn't that sweet?

[moonslav59]

O BBs and 1 K by our staff. How rare is that?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

JBJ for t h r e e!

 

I meant to say 'left' not 'right.'

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

O BBs and 1 K by our staff. How rare is that?

 

How rare is that, MOON? As rare as the SOX farm system developing a starting pitcher.

[Maxbialystock]

Good outing for Whitclock but zero Ks tonight. This is concerning as his K rate keeps decreasing. If the trends continues he won't be successful as too many balls are going into play

 

I prefer balls in play because it's fewer pitches per out. Plus fewer walks.

[iortiz]

I am glad to hear that Verdugo’s .595 OPS is due to bad luck.

Haven't noticed but his BABIP is a ridiculous 237, so yeah.

[moonslav59]

I prefer balls in play because it's fewer pitches per out. Plus fewer walks.

 

I have no problem with Whitlock getting no K's. The 0 BBs is what matters more.

[Maxbialystock]

I have no problem with Whitlock getting no K's. The 0 BBs is what matters more.

 

You just don't get it, do you? Not only did Whitlock not get any K's tonight, he is even farther away from being the closer. I mean, what could be worse than that he had a quality start? If he has one more quality start, thereby proving how ignorant Cora is, Cora should be summarily gotten rid of.

 

This has to be one of the worst games this season. I'm now firmly in agreement with the wisdom and insight of Old Red. Whitlock must be dragged to the bullpen if that's what it takes. Let Sawamura or one of the other relievers start.

[mvp 78]

Good outing for Whitclock but zero Ks tonight. This is concerning as his K rate keeps decreasing. If the trends continues he won't be successful as too many balls are going into play

 

If there was anything to be concerned about last night, it would be that his velo was waaaay down.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/garrett-whitlock/20191/graphs?pitchgraphs=true&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&start=2021&end=2022&rtype=mult&gt1=15&dStatArray=SI&ymin=&ymax=

[JDavis76]

I'm convinced that anyone who continues to dis Devers is nothing more than a troll.

 

I was just being honest about his fielding

[Bellhorn04]

If there was anything to be concerned about last night, it would be that his velo was waaaay down.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/garrett-whitlock/20191/graphs?pitchgraphs=true&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&start=2021&end=2022&rtype=mult>1=15&dStatArray=SI&ymin=&ymax=

 

Those graphs are kind of freaky.

[Bellhorn04]

I was just being honest about his fielding

 

The metrics say his overall fielding has been slightly above average in 2022. He still makes some bad plays, like all slightly above average fielders do. But he's not a butcher.

[moonslav59]

You just don't get it, do you? Not only did Whitlock not get any K's tonight, he is even farther away from being the closer. I mean, what could be worse than that he had a quality start? If he has one more quality start, thereby proving how ignorant Cora is, Cora should be summarily gotten rid of.

 

This has to be one of the worst games this season. I'm now firmly in agreement with the wisdom and insight of Old Red. Whitlock must be dragged to the bullpen if that's what it takes. Let Sawamura or one of the other relievers start.

 

You crack me up!

[moonslav59]

The metrics say his overall fielding has been slightly above average in 2022. He still makes some bad plays, like all slightly above average fielders do. But he's not a butcher.

 

The last week, he's looked like one, but yes, overall, he's been fine on D, this year, honestly.

[Maxbialystock]

You crack me up!

 

And the weird thing is, Old Red will not be offended by my heavily facetious post. He honestly believes that closers and closers alone win games and that the first 8 innings of any game are basically irrelevant. Same goes for hitting and fielding in the 9th and later innings--unimportant if a closer is not involved in a win.

 

On the other hand, I will confess that I have always enjoyed the great closers the Sox have had in the past, and especially Uehara in 2013. Barnes was great last year before his precipitous fall from grace.

 

On the other hand, as I keep harping on, last year's postseason is prima facie evidence that closers can be irrelevant. The Sox won six terrific games without a save and lost 5 games in which the only blown save was way back in the 6th inning, long before the arrival of a potential closer.

 

And, as I keep reminding Old Red and he keeps ignoring, the Sox began this season with not one but two experienced closers. They bombed--badly. So others got a shot and fared little better.

 

Now apparently Cora has drawn the line on Whitlock closing for three good reasons: 1) he has never demonstrated he can be a reliable closer; 2) he has demonstrated he can be a good starter; 3) and, mostly importantly--which Old Red simply refuses to see--it's a 9 inning game and pitchers who can go 5 or more good innings are more valuable than pitchers who basically pitch one inning, no matter how well.

 

Houck might be the best choice at closing, but we don't know that he would be a good closer, plus he seems to be very effective as a long reliever.

[moonslav59]

And the weird thing is, Old Red will not be offended by my heavily facetious post. He honestly believes that closers and closers alone win games and that the first 8 innings of any game are basically irrelevant. Same goes for hitting and fielding in the 9th and later innings--unimportant if a closer is not involved in a win.

 

On the other hand, I will confess that I have always enjoyed the great closers the Sox have had in the past, and especially Uehara in 2013. Barnes was great last year before his precipitous fall from grace.

 

On the other hand, as I keep harping on, last year's postseason is prima facie evidence that closers can be irrelevant. The Sox won six terrific games without a save and lost 5 games in which the only blown save was way back in the 6th inning, long before the arrival of a potential closer.

 

And, as I keep reminding Old Red and he keeps ignoring, the Sox began this season with not one but two experienced closers. They bombed--badly. So others got a shot and fared little better.

 

Now apparently Cora has drawn the line on Whitlock closing for three good reasons: 1) he has never demonstrated he can be a reliable closer; 2) he has demonstrated he can be a good starter; 3) and, mostly importantly--which Old Red simply refuses to see--it's a 9 inning game and pitchers who can go 5 or more good innings are more valuable than pitchers who basically pitch one inning, no matter how well.

 

Houck might be the best choice at closing, but we don't know that he would be a good closer, plus he seems to be very effective as a long reliever.

 

The part that gets me the most is that traditional 9th inning closers only come in a game when we have the lead, and we are 24-3 when going into the 9th with the lead.

 

The most any great 9th inning closer could do is add 3 wins, assuming perfection.

 

Now, we are 0-5 in games entering the 9th tied, but would we have used Whitlock (or Houck) in those games? Are we sure we'd have done much better than 0-5?

 

Our pen woes go way beyond failing closers, and one of the few strengths we've had in the pen are the long relievers. Taking pitchers from those roles and making them closers may or may not have improved our closer record, but what also needs to be factored in, is who replaces those long relief appearances, and how well or badly would they have done?

 

We had a very similar pen, on paper, going into last season. Many posters ranted at how bad it was or was going to be. It had it's ups and downs, but it was not nearly as bad as many felt it was going to be. Bloom chose tp spend elsewhere. He added Strahm and Diekman to replace Ottavino and Andriese (and others), and one could easily think the pen was or would be about the same as 2021, at least on paper.

 

It clearly has done much worse, especially when compared to the first 2-3 months of 2021.

 

Yes, that's on Bloom, and maybe some on Cora for not trying Houck or Whitlock as the closer, but thinking that move would have saved the pen and the team is illogical on many levels.

[a700hitter]

You just don't get it, do you? Not only did Whitlock not get any K's tonight, he is even farther away from being the closer. I mean, what could be worse than that he had a quality start? If he has one more quality start, thereby proving how ignorant Cora is, Cora should be summarily gotten rid of.

 

This has to be one of the worst games this season. I'm now firmly in agreement with the wisdom and insight of Old Red. Whitlock must be dragged to the bullpen if that's what it takes. Let Sawamura or one of the other relievers start.

He pitched 5 innings. He didn’t get a Quality Start.

[JDavis76]

The metrics say his overall fielding has been slightly above average in 2022. He still makes some bad plays, like all slightly above average fielders do. But he's not a butcher.

 

He has a zero DWAR, is 6th in the AL for 3rd basemen that qualify in FP and has the most errors amongst qualified AL 3rd basemen. https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_/view/fielding/position/3b/players/7

[moonslav59]

He has a zero DWAR, is 6th in the AL for 3rd basemen that qualify in FP and has the most errors amongst qualified AL 3rd basemen. https://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/player/_/view/fielding/position/3b/players/7

 

Expanding the sample size to reach 30 players means 170+ innings at 3B.

 

Devers ranks 11th in UZR/150 at +4.0

He ranks 22nd in DRS at -2, but playing way more innings than many at -1 would likely raise him to near average in DRS/innings.

 

Breaking down the UZR/150, he ranks

 

3rd in ErrR

16th in DPR

22nd in RngR

 

He ranks 6th in errors, but he's 3rd in innings

 

He has 2 fielding errors (T 14th) and 4 throwing errors (T 1st).

[JDavis76]

Expanding the sample size to reach 30 players means 170+ innings at 3B.

 

Devers ranks 11th in UZR/150 at +4.0

He ranks 22nd in DRS at -2, but playing way more innings than many at -1 would likely raise him to near average in DRS/innings.

 

Breaking down the UZR/150, he ranks

 

3rd in ErrR

16th in DPR

22nd in RngR

 

He ranks 6th in errors, but he's 3rd in innings

 

He has 2 fielding errors (T 14th) and 4 throwing errors (T 1st).

 

That's great, regardless of the "metrics", I like guys that don't make errors. The "metrics" also say the sox should be 28-23, I'll stick with Parcells that says you are what your record says you are.

[Bellhorn04]

He pitched 5 innings. He didn’t get a Quality Start.

 

6, actually.