The Way Too Early Tear Down Thread

[Old Red]

What is equal value? Is 5 years of Verdugo not equal to 60 games of Betts?

 

I’m talking talent, and production that you would have gotten if Betts would have stayed, and talent, and production you would Get from Bogey, JD, and Raffy if they stayed, and what you would get from their replacements.

[moonslav59]

You have to figure Bloom was told he had a (taxable) payroll of about $240 mill to play with this year.

 

Not really. You have to subtract about $16M for Player Benefits and the $16M for Price.

[moonslav59]

I’m talking talent, and production that you would have gotten if Betts would have stayed, and talent, and production you would Get from Bogey, JD, and Raffy if they stayed, and what you would get from their replacements.

 

The Betts extension/signing is a totally different issue.

 

You, yourself, was not for paying Betts what he wanted, so how can you now count his post-signing value and contract as something in the plus column? Something we lost?

 

The fact is, we lost a season of Betts, which turned out to be a 60 game season, and we got 5 years of Verdugo plus a couple not-so-promising-anymore prospects.

 

Grading the trade is difficult, because the results are not in for our return. The results are in on the Betts side of the ledger, though.

 

Speculating on what else we might have gotten for Betts is fine, but I've heard nothing about other "what ifs."

 

[Old Red]

The Betts extension/signing is a totally different issue.

 

You, yourself, was not for paying Betts what he wanted, so how can you now count his post-signing value and contract as something in the plus column? Something we lost?

 

The fact is, we lost a season of Betts, which turned out to be a 60 game season, and we got 5 years of Verdugo plus a couple not-so-promising-anymore prospects.

 

Grading the trade is difficult, because the results are not in for our return. The results are in on the Betts side of the ledger, though.

 

Speculating on what else we might have gotten for Betts is fine, but I've heard nothing about other "what ifs."

 

 

That’s not what I’m saying. Plain, and simple if the Red Sox lose Betts, Bogey, JD, Evol, and Raffy I have NO CONFIDENCE that Bloom can replace these players with anything close to equal value, and the Red Sox will be worse off than they were before. That’s all.

[Bellhorn04]

Not really. You have to subtract about $16M for Player Benefits and the $16M for Price.

 

That's why I said taxable payroll!

[notin]

That’s not what I’m saying. Plain, and simple if the Red Sox lose Betts, Bogey, JD, Evol, and Raffy I have NO CONFIDENCE that Bloom can replace these players with anything close to equal value, and the Red Sox will be worse off than they were before. That’s all.

 

Why no confidence?

 

Besides stealing Whitlock, he’s also added Nick Pivetta, whom he got for two mediocre relief pitchers on expiring contracts and got him from a large market team that had given up on him and was not just dumping salary…

[mvp 78]

That’s not what I’m saying. Plain, and simple if the Red Sox lose Betts, Bogey, JD, Evol, and Raffy I have NO CONFIDENCE that Bloom can replace these players with anything close to equal value, and the Red Sox will be worse off than they were before. That’s all.

 

I think they can use JD's salary to sign a FA DH if they want to. Not too hard to do.

 

Aside from last season, I think you're overstating what Eovaldi really brings to the table.

 

Is Trevor Story close enough value to Xander for you? I don't think it is to me.

 

I think losing Raffy would be unforgivable.

[mvp 78]

What is equal value? Is 4.5 years of Verdugo not equal to 60 games of Betts?

 

Fixed.

[Bellhorn04]

Aside from last season, I think you're overstating what Eovaldi really brings to the table.

 

I still like Eovaldi, although his dinger rate has been awful this year. What is overstated?

[moonslav59]

That's why I said taxable payroll!

 

It's not $240M

[notin]

I think they can use JD's salary to sign a FA DH if they want to. Not too hard to do.

 

Aside from last season, I think you're overstating what Eovaldi really brings to the table.

 

Is Trevor Story close enough value to Xander for you? I don't think it is to me.

 

I think losing Raffy would be unforgivable.

 

If you use fWARVas a measure, Story has actually been pretty close to Bogaerts over the past few seasons.

 

Eovaldi is just too risky to go long term with again. He’s good when healthy, but I have strong doubts he will stay healthy from ages 33-37 or 38.

 

I think JD and Bogaerts will return. Devers is going to be a difficult case to bring back (when the time comes), so I’m not as confident.

 

Will keeping Bogaerts once again look like the Consolation Prize for losing Devers just like he was for losing Betts?

[Old Red]

Why no confidence?

 

Besides stealing Whitlock, he’s also added Nick Pivetta, whom he got for two mediocre relief pitchers on expiring contracts and got him from a large market team that had given up on him and was not just dumping salary…

 

What to heck does getting Pivetta for two rag arms got to do with replacing mega talent like Bogey, Raffy, Mookie, and JD’s bat?? I heard this from someone else yesterday, and it’s not even a close comparison.

[Bellhorn04]

It's not $240M

 

OK, it's $241.842 million. Are you not using Cot's any more?

[Bellhorn04]

What to heck does getting Pivetta for two rag arms got to do with replacing mega talent like Bogey, Raffy, Mookie, and JD’s bat?? I heard this from someone else yesterday, and it’s not even a close comparison.

 

The point is he's made some good moves.

[mvp 78]

I still like Eovaldi, although his dinger rate has been awful this year. What is overstated?

 

That Bloom won't be able to replace him.

 

2018: 2.2 fWAR

2019: -0.3 fWAR

2020: 0.9 fWAR (short season)

2021: 5.6 fWAR

2022: -0.1 fWAR

 

Even if Eovaldi sticks around, he most likely will not be the version that Old Red wants.

[mvp 78]

If you use fWARVas a measure, Story has actually been pretty close to Bogaerts over the past few seasons.

 

Eovaldi is just too risky to go long term with again. He’s good when healthy, but I have strong doubts he will stay healthy from ages 33-37 or 38.

 

I think JD and Bogaerts will return. Devers is going to be a difficult case to bring back (when the time comes), so I’m not as confident.

 

Will keeping Bogaerts once again look like the Consolation Prize for losing Devers just like he was for losing Betts?

 

Older DH's haven't been paid a lot of $$$ in FA. If the Sox can afford it, why not keep him around? Unless you're using it to extend Devers and re-sign Bogey.

[mvp 78]

The point is he's made some good moves.

 

But what about the moves he's potentially NOT going to make?

[Old Red]

I think they can use JD's salary to sign a FA DH if they want to. Not too hard to do.

 

Aside from last season, I think you're overstating what Eovaldi really brings to the table.

 

Is Trevor Story close enough value to Xander for you? I don't think it is to me.

 

I think losing Raffy would be unforgivable.

 

Yes they can sign a FA DH, but will it replace JD’s bat?

 

Evol is an innings eater if nothing else.

 

I have said before that Story will never replace Bogey on, or off the field. I think the jury is still out on Story’s value, and some days Story Land is open, and some days Story Land is closed. He did have quite a May, but we’ll just have to see how he ends up.

 

It would be pretty near impossible to replace Raffy’s value, and if you could at what cost.

 

Dugy certainly is nowhere near Mookie’s value.

[Old Red]

The point is he's made some good moves.

 

I already gave Bloom an A for Whitlock, and Pivetta was a good steal too, and if the Seaman turns out it will be even better.

[moonslav59]

I already gave Bloom an A for Whitlock, and Pivetta was a good steal too, and if the Seaman turns out it will be even better.

 

Schreiber off waivers.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I'm thinking Bogey or Raffy.

 

Trading Devers for Judge is reminiscent of 1947 when the Yankems and SOX were considering trading Williams for DiMaggio. Yawkey decided that Joe D wasn't enough and also wanted Berra included in the trade.

Edited June 3, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[mvp 78]

Schreiber off waivers.

 

Don't go too crazy about a guy with 13 innings pitched.

[Old Red]

Schreiber off waivers.

 

Yes looks good so far, and these are the lower level moves that Bloom can hit on, but it’s the big moves that worry me.

[Old Red]

Don't go too crazy about a guy with 13 innings pitched.

 

Even at 13 innings he’s looked better than some in the bullpen. We’ll take what we can get at this point.

[dgalehouse]

I remember Theo Epstein . Theo was a great G.M. for the Sox . Theo broke the curse. Chaim , you are no Theo Epstein.

[mvp 78]

I remember Theo Epstein . Theo was a great G.M. for the Sox . Theo broke the curse. Chaim , you are no Theo Epstein.

 

Some people were saying he was the greatest GM of all time right after the CC signing.

[notin]

Trading Devers for Judge is reminiscent of 1947 when the Yankems ane SOX were considering trading Williams for DiMaggio. Yawkey decided that Joe D wasn't enough and also wanted Berra included in the trade.

 

Was Yawkey trying to collect DiMaggio’s? “I’ve got Dom. Once I get Joe, getting Vince will be real easy! And then I’ll have them alll and will RULE THE WORLD!”

 

Yeah I sometimes think of Yawkey as a Bond villain. But I doubt I’m the only one…

[notin]

Yes looks good so far, and these are the lower level moves that Bloom can hit on, but it’s the big moves that worry me.

 

Has he even been allowed to make big moves? The Sox payroll still isn’t small…

[notin]

I wouldn't have re-signed Sale.

 

Would the current front office have done it either?

[Bellhorn04]

I remember Theo Epstein . Theo was a great G.M. for the Sox . Theo broke the curse. Chaim , you are no Theo Epstein.

 

And when Theo went to the Cubs, the team was awful as he rebuilt it.