A Realistic View at 2022: Part III

[Maxbialystock]

Agreed, but I guess the hope would be to use the savings to upgrade the OF and pen.

 

Beyond question, Bogey would be a huge loss, but that also seems inevitable at this point. Thus the acquisition of Story, who can stay at 2b or go back to SS when/if Bogey goes elsewhere.

 

I still remember coughing up a great defensive SS, Jose Iglesias, in 2013 to help get Jake Peavy. Iggy went to the Tigers, started, and played a brilliant SS in the ALCS against us.

 

Nevertheless, the Sox won the ALCS and the WS and kept two SS's--Stephen Drew and Bogey (who played 3b that year). I hated losing Iglesias, but have been fine with Bogey at SS since 2014.

[moonslav59]

Beyond question, Bogey would be a huge loss, but that also seems inevitable at this point. Thus the acquisition of Story, who can stay at 2b or go back to SS when/if Bogey goes elsewhere.

 

I still remember coughing up a great defensive SS, Jose Iglesias, in 2013 to help get Jake Peavy. Iggy went to the Tigers, started, and played a brilliant SS in the ALCS against us.

 

Nevertheless, the Sox won the ALCS and the WS and kept two SS's--Stephen Drew and Bogey (who played 3b that year). I hated losing Iglesias, but have been fine with Bogey at SS since 2014.

 

...and those who did not want Iggy as our SS, were so happy to repeatedly point out the error he made in that series- ignoring all the plays he made no Red Sox SS could have made those years.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ultimately, the sox are a team that was built off the remnants of a World Series caliber team. While last year was fun for you guys, the likelihood of that happening again is incredibly low. The 2021 sox were not very good yet they were willed and motivated to make an ALCS. But now you are dealing with the business side with the core of your team facing contract years. This is what GM's tend to want to avoid. But your GM seems to want a blank slate, and he would have gotten it had the sox not gone nuclear over the last few weeks. If I were a sox fan and I wanted to see this team become a juggernaut again, I would actually hope they dealt off their contract year players, commit to Devers and build from within and the FA market to build a contender circa 2024-2025. If the sox stay in this and don't tear this thing down, my bet is the sox team will be mired in the "WC contention" phase for awhile

[Bellhorn04]

Ultimately, the sox are a team that was built off the remnants of a World Series caliber team. While last year was fun for you guys, the likelihood of that happening again is incredibly low. The 2021 sox were not very good yet they were willed and motivated to make an ALCS. But now you are dealing with the business side with the core of your team facing contract years. This is what GM's tend to want to avoid. But your GM seems to want a blank slate, and he would have gotten it had the sox not gone nuclear over the last few weeks. If I were a sox fan and I wanted to see this team become a juggernaut again, I would actually hope they dealt off their contract year players, commit to Devers and build from within and the FA market to build a contender circa 2024-2025. If the sox stay in this and don't tear this thing down, my bet is the sox team will be mired in the "WC contention" phase for awhile

 

It's a little silly saying the Sox were "not very good" last year.

 

On paper they had no right beating the Yankees and Rays and going up 2-1 on Houston. But they did.

[Maxbialystock]

It's a little silly saying the Sox were "not very good" last year.

 

On paper they had no right beating the Yankees and Rays and going up 2-1 on Houston. But they did.

 

While I agree with you about the Sox in last year's postseason--which was to me spectacularly good and fairly earned (not lucky as jacksonianmarch seems to think)--I do like jacksonianmarch's overview of the Sox future. I mean, it's broad brush, but it does seem that the one guy the Sox need to hang onto is Devers.

 

That said, I still have not figured out Chaim Bloom's overall approach because to me he's caught between the devil (the system he created in Tampa to win with a low payroll caused by a weak fan base and budget) and the deep blue sea (the Sox under John Henry have been willing to spend big to get those 4 WS titles in 20 years).

[moonslav59]

It's a little silly saying the Sox were "not very good" last year.

 

On paper they had no right beating the Yankees and Rays and going up 2-1 on Houston. But they did.

 

And, he praised Bloom and Cora for building a good team, last year. Now, he's revising history.

 

He's right about expiring contracts and big choices to be made, but that is next season. We lost ERod, Richards, Perez and Ottavino plus Renfroe, Marwin and Santana and the big rentals, but some of those are additions by subtraction and we gained Wacha, Hill, Strahm and Story plus JBJ, Schreiber and some farm help now ML ready.

 

I don't see this team as being worse, and I see us making some deadline moves, again, this summer. Hopefully, we can do as well as last summer's Schwarber, Iggy, Shaw and Robles/Davis.

 

[Bellhorn04]

That said, I still have not figured out Chaim Bloom's overall approach because to me he's caught between the devil (the system he created in Tampa to win with a low payroll caused by a weak fan base and budget) and the deep blue sea (the Sox under John Henry have been willing to spend big to get those 4 WS titles in 20 years).

 

We've seen his basic approach last season and this one. Keep building for the future while trying to make the playoffs in the present.

 

His real test is coming between now and next Opening Day. A lot of contracts ending and money coming off the books.

[mvp 78]

@Ken_Rosenthal

MLB sent memo to GMs, asst. GMs and managers yesterday saying that as of Monday, the limitation on the number of pitchers on an active roster will be 13. Rule originally intended to begin in ‘20 finally will take effect. Earlier this season, MLB twice extended 14-pitcher limit.

 

If Kiké is not activated, either Wong, Downs or R Hernandez could get the call short term since Arauz was DFA'd. Another DFA to bring up Fitz?

[moonslav59]

While I agree with you about the Sox in last year's postseason--which was to me spectacularly good and fairly earned (not lucky as jacksonianmarch seems to think)--I do like jacksonianmarch's overview of the Sox future. I mean, it's broad brush, but it does seem that the one guy the Sox need to hang onto is Devers.

 

That said, I still have not figured out Chaim Bloom's overall approach because to me he's caught between the devil (the system he created in Tampa to win with a low payroll caused by a weak fan base and budget) and the deep blue sea (the Sox under John Henry have been willing to spend big to get those 4 WS titles in 20 years).

 

I'm not sure how well Bloom will do, when given much more money. We really only have Story as an example and a bunch of 1 year moderate deals. I agree, we should expect Bloom to do much of what he and others did in Tampa concerning finding gems for low dollars and building a farm up, and I'm happy with what he has done in this area, so far. Certainly, some mistakes were made, but most were low-cost, one year deals that are largely expected to have high failure rates.

 

I suspect Henry will allow Bloom to have about the same budget, next year, and with so many large contracts clearing the the books, we will see just how well (or poorly) Bloom does in an area he has not had much experience in.

 

Some seem to think his lack of experience means he's "in over his head" or worse. That may very well turn out to be true, but how can anyone know, for sure, at this point. We really only have Story's deal to judge him by, in terms of bigger deals. He's done pretty good on lesser deals, drafting and building up the farm and lower 40 man roster, but the jury is still out on a lot of is bigger moves. Verdugo, German, Binelas & Hamilton, Seabold, Winckowski, RHern and others.

[moonslav59]

@Ken_Rosenthal

MLB sent memo to GMs, asst. GMs and managers yesterday saying that as of Monday, the limitation on the number of pitchers on an active roster will be 13. Rule originally intended to begin in ‘20 finally will take effect. Earlier this season, MLB twice extended 14-pitcher limit.

 

If Kiké is not activated, either Wong, Downs or R Hernandez could get the call short term since Arauz was DFA'd. Another DFA to bring up Fitz?

 

Are you saying maybe Fitzy gets called up or DFA'd?

 

[mvp 78]

Are you saying maybe Fitzy gets called up or DFA'd?

 

 

Fitz isn't on the 40 man.

 

My comment was stating they'd have to DFA someone in order to get a different positional player (like Fitz) onto the 40 man to be called up.

[moonslav59]

Fitz isn't on the 40 man.

 

My comment was stating they'd have to DFA someone in order to get a different positional player (like Fitz) onto the 40 man to be called up.

 

I thought so.

 

I guess it’s a good sign to finally get to the place where choosing someone to DFA is getting a little more difficult.

 

My DFA lists used to be 5-7 players long. Now, I’m looking at Plawecki, Brasier or even Diekman or Sawamura.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought so.

 

I guess it’s a good sign to finally get to the place where choosing someone to DFA is getting a little more difficult.

 

My DFA lists used to be 5-7 players long. Now, I’m looking at Plawecki, Brasier or even Diekman or Sawamura.

 

Plawecki? I'd have to bet against that one.

[mvp 78]

Fitz isn't on the 40 man.

 

My comment was stating they'd have to DFA someone in order to get a different positional player (like Fitz) onto the 40 man to be called up.

 

Fitz has a 481 OPS in June though. Yuck!

[mvp 78]

Plawecki? I'd have to bet against that one.

 

Yeah, not likely.

 

Connor Wong hasn't really hit consistently. R Hernandez can't catch at all.

 

There's just no replacement for him right now.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, not likely.

 

Connor Wong hasn't really hit consistently. R Hernandez can't catch at all.

 

There's just no replacement for him right now.

 

Plus, some say, he's a good pitcher whisperer.

[Maxbialystock]

...and those who did not want Iggy as our SS, were so happy to repeatedly point out the error he made in that series- ignoring all the plays he made no Red Sox SS could have made those years.

 

I only remember the excellent plays Iggy made for the Tigers (and the Sox). He was a joy to watch, but over time I recognize that, while Iggy would have been great fun to watch, the smart baseball move was to go with Bogey. A peek at their WAR's over the years confirms that.

[Maxbialystock]

Plus, some say, he's a good pitcher whisperer.

 

Nice turn of phrase. I gave Robert Redford (both a former baseball player and former horse whisperer) a call, and he says Plawecki is the real deal.

[Bellhorn04]

...and those who did not want Iggy as our SS, were so happy to repeatedly point out the error he made in that series- ignoring all the plays he made no Red Sox SS could have made those years.

 

Iggy made two errors in that series, one in Game 2 and one in Game 6, and both contributed to key runs. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.

[Bellhorn04]

Nice turn of phrase. I gave Robert Redford (both a former baseball player and former horse whisperer) a call, and he says Plawecki is the real deal.

 

That's moon's.

[moonslav59]

Plawecki? I'd have to bet against that one.

 

DFA'ing Plawecki and calling up Wong does not help the 13 pitcher rule, either, so it ain't happening, but the list of crummy players at the bottom of the 40 is shorter and not as bad as it was, even just 2-4 months ago.

 

Bloom has done a pretty good job finding role players and promising prospects that don't scream out "DFA ME!"

 

I know that's a low bar to set, but it does show progress in that area.

[Larry Cook]

Can you please post the names of the crummy players at the bottom of our 40 man roster?

[moonslav59]

Can you please post the names of the crummy players at the bottom of our 40 man roster?

 

I did. my point was, however, that the bottom of the 40 man roster is now at a point where it seems the choices are much harder. The players are much less "crummy," but you'd never know that reading the game threads. (My top 3 were Brasier, Diekman and Plawecki or Sawamura- only because we have 4 catchers on the 40.)

 

At the risk of upsetting anyone who hates my lists, I think these are very eye-opening and place great emphasis on just how bad the bottom of the 40 was after 2019. Granted, many were chosen by Bloom at or near the min wage, but when you are forced to cut salary, it is what it is.

 

Some of the many players who populated the bottom of the 40 in 2020, and remember, if the season had been 162 games not 60, we might have seen more names:

 

Listed in order of most PAs or IP (I guess some would have to be called top 15 or 20 out of 40, at some point...

Chavis

Pillar

Peraza

Plawecki

Arauz

Lin

Munoz

Puello

Grullon

Lucroy

 

Perez (#1 in IP)

Weber (#3)

Valdez 4

Mazza 5 (was crummy for us)

Godley 6

Brewer 7

Brasier 8

Springs 10 (was crummy for us) pro-rated to 50 IP!!!

Brice 11 (pro-rated to 50 IP)

Osich 13

Covey 14

Kickham 15

Stock 16 (Pro-rated to 35 IP)

Walden 17 (same)

Hart 18 (to 26 IP)

Hembree 20

M Hall 21

DHern 22

Triggs 23

Lever 26

Tapia 27

 

That's 31 names. Maybe discount 2-3 as not worthy for a crummy label, and we're still at 28-29 names cycling through the bottom 20-25 slots over the season.

 

To me, this is STUNNINGLY HORRIFIC! (THis is where some context is needed when remembering just what the starting point was for Bloom. Then, factor in no Betts, no Price, no sale, no ERod and just a quarter season from Beni and three-quarters for Nate. (Note, I only listed players who played and not guys like Jeff Bandy & CJ Chatham.)

 

Now, we will see a marked improvement in 2021, and instead of 20-25 slots where replacement level or worse players were recycled, we see about 8-12 somewhat "crummy" labeled players in the bottom of the 40.

 

Again, listed in order of PAs or IP:

Marwin (8th in PAs & was DFA'd)

Plawecki 11

Cordero 13 (sucked back then)

Santana 14 (127 PAs!)

Chavis 16 (Is playing better for PIT, now)

Arauz 17 DFA'd this season

Lopez

Wong

Munoz

Motter

 

Richards 4th 137 IP (Not really bottom 10-20.

Perez 5th 114 IP (same)

Ottavino 8th (same)

Sawamura 10

DHern 13th 40 IP

Valdez (same)

Andriese 15th 37 IP was DFA'd

Workman (acquired)

Brice 20th 12 IP

Brasier 21

Weber 22

Peacock 23

Feliz, Gonsalves, Bazardo, Seabold, Brennan, Espinal, Crawford, Brewer, Ort

 

I got a little loose here, so let's say 25 names cycling through the bottom 10-15 slots.

 

Now, 2020's worst players on the 40:

(In order of 40 man roster seniority)

Brasier

DHern

Valdez

(Arroyo?)

Groome

Wong

Seabold

Sawamura

RHern

Crawford

Downs

Winckowski

Diekman

Robles

(Some on this list do not deserve to be associated with the word "cummy," and to me, this list shows a vast improvement from 2020 and even 2021.

 

is it just me?

 

[moonslav59]

I did. my point was, however, that the bottom of the 40 man roster is now at a point where it seems the choices are much harder. The players are much less "crummy," but you'd never know that reading the game threads. (My top 3 were Brasier, Diekman and Plawecki or Sawamura- only because we have 4 catchers on the 40.)

 

At the risk of upsetting anyone who hates my lists, I think these are very eye-opening and place great emphasis on just how bad the bottom of the 40 was after 2019. Granted, many were chosen by Bloom at or near the min wage, but when you are forced to cut salary, it is what it is.

 

Some of the many players who populated the bottom of the 40 in 2020, and remember, if the season had been 162 games not 60, we might have seen more names:

 

Listed in order of most PAs or IP (I guess some would have to be called top 15 or 20 out of 40, at some point...

Chavis

Pillar

Peraza

Plawecki

Arauz

Lin

Munoz

Puello

Grullon

Lucroy

 

Perez (#1 in IP)

Weber (#3)

Valdez 4

Mazza 5 (was crummy for us)

Godley 6

Brewer 7

Brasier 8

Springs 10 (was crummy for us) pro-rated to 50 IP!!!

Brice 11 (pro-rated to 50 IP)

Osich 13

Covey 14

Kickham 15

Stock 16 (Pro-rated to 35 IP)

Walden 17 (same)

Hart 18 (to 26 IP)

Hembree 20

M Hall 21

DHern 22

Triggs 23

Lever 26

Tapia 27

 

That's 31 names. Maybe discount 2-3 as not worthy for a crummy label, and we're still at 28-29 names cycling through the bottom 20-25 slots over the season.

 

To me, this is STUNNINGLY HORRIFIC! (THis is where some context is needed when remembering just what the starting point was for Bloom. Then, factor in no Betts, no Price, no sale, no ERod and just a quarter season from Beni and three-quarters for Nate. (Note, I only listed players who played and not guys like Jeff Bandy & CJ Chatham.)

 

Now, we will see a marked improvement in 2021, and instead of 20-25 slots where replacement level or worse players were recycled, we see about 8-12 somewhat "crummy" labeled players in the bottom of the 40.

 

Again, listed in order of PAs or IP:

Marwin (8th in PAs & was DFA'd)

Plawecki 11

Cordero 13 (sucked back then)

Santana 14 (127 PAs!)

Chavis 16 (Is playing better for PIT, now)

Arauz 17 DFA'd this season

Lopez

Wong

Munoz

Motter

 

Richards 4th 137 IP (Not really bottom 10-20.

Perez 5th 114 IP (same)

Ottavino 8th (same)

Sawamura 10

DHern 13th 40 IP

Valdez (same)

Andriese 15th 37 IP was DFA'd

Workman (acquired)

Brice 20th 12 IP

Brasier 21

Weber 22

Peacock 23

Feliz, Gonsalves, Bazardo, Seabold, Brennan, Espinal, Crawford, Brewer, Ort

 

I got a little loose here, so let's say 25 names cycling through the bottom 10-15 slots.

 

Now, 2020's worst players on the 40:

(In order of 40 man roster seniority)

Brasier

DHern

Valdez

(Arroyo?)

Groome

Wong

Seabold

Sawamura

RHern

Crawford

Downs

Winckowski

Diekman

Robles

(Some on this list do not deserve to be associated with the word "cummy," and to me, this list shows a vast improvement from 2020 and even 2021.

 

is it just me?

 

 

I forgot to put two players that have already been DFA'd, this year on the 2022 list: Arauz and Shaw.

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox have called up Jeter Downs.

[JDavis76]

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox have called up Jeter Downs.

 

Gonna be weird to here the "Let's go jeter" chants at the fens......

[moonslav59]

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox have called up Jeter Downs.

 

Arroyo must not be ready.

[Larry Cook]

Arroyo must not be ready.

 

Arroyo is almost always hurt.

[moonslav59]

Arroyo is almost always hurt.

 

or sick

 

or...

[Larry Cook]

or sick

 

or...

 

Arroyo, brazier, Davis and Robles to Oakland for low “single a” prospect not on the Oakland top 30 prospect list! As an extra added incentive, we throw in some cash considerations and the keys/deed to one of John Henry’s Florida homes!