Fire Bloom .

[notin]

Yes that’s just my opinion, but I bet if you put the vote out there in all of Red Sox. Nation that would be the overwhelming opinion.

 

Probably, but the team isn’t run like a democracy. The only opinion that matters is Henry’s. And I’m not so sure he cares about whether or not you like it…

[notin]

Sox have lost more games than any team because of defense....that's the GM not taking defense into account. It's let's try to be cute and trying exotics instead of looking at what helps a team win. This is a bad team. Period. Winning 2 straight is almost impossible of late.

 

Defensively they are appalling. Without looking it up, I bet Hernandez has more throwing errors than Tampa. That experiment should have ended weeks ago…

[Dipre]

Boston is NOT a small market team. Why would they need to do like Tampa? Boston won their previous 4 titles by going out and getting the players they need. Yes they had some home grown talent in there but they also went out and got Big Papi, Manny, Pedro, Schilling, beckett, JD, Price and the list goes on.

 

They're 11th in payroll. Not 30th. And the payroll and contract management aspect of team building has evolved from the Papi and Manny days. I understand that the performance of the current team is frustrating, and that's squarely on the GM, but that doesn't mean the actual process is incorrect.

[Dipre]

Probably, but the team isn’t run like a democracy. The only opinion that matters is Henry’s. And I’m not so sure he cares about whether or not you like it…

 

And Red Sox Nation is a creation of the current ownership group. Oh, the irony.

[Old Red]

And Red Sox Nation is a creation of the current ownership group. Oh, the irony.

 

Wrong again! Red Sox Nation started in 1967.

[Old Red]

The Sox did nothing but suck for decades on end. They win a couple championships (under this ownership group, no less), and now anything less than 180MM payrolls and yearly playoff berths will suffice.

 

The Red Sox have had 11 losing seasons since 1967. 12 if you want to count this year already, and that would be 3 in 4 years under Bloom, and 5, or 6 since Henry took over.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Old Red

[notin]

Boston is NOT a small market team. Why would they need to do like Tampa? Boston won their previous 4 titles by going out and getting the players they need. Yes they had some home grown talent in there but they also went out and got Big Papi, Manny, Pedro, Schilling, beckett, JD, Price and the list goes on.

 

 

Big Papi was a minor league free agent when they signed him. That’s probably more in line with moves they would love to make now. Pedro, Schilling, and Beckett were all acquired via trade because the Sox had minor leaguers other teams were willing to accept in deals. Sure they were salary dumps, but they were all “dumped” in Boston because the Sox were able to put together better deals than other teams.

 

That wasn’t the case in 2020. So far the best hitter Boston has brought up through their system since Devers is Duran, a guy Sean McDonough described less than a year ago as “not a Major Leaguer.”

[Dipre]

The Red Sox have had 11 losing seasons since 1967. 12 if you want to count this year already, and that would be 3 in 4 years under Bloom

 

How many of those "non-losing seasons" between '67 and '04 resulted in playoff berths? More importantly, how many of them resulted in championships?

[Dipre]

Wrong again! Red Sox Nation started in 1967.

 

Not in its current pink hat wearing iteration it didn't.

[Dipre]

Between 1967 and 2003 the Red Sox made the playoffs 9 times with 0 championships. That means the Red Sox were making the playoffs at a clip of about once every four seasons, and never won a championship.

[Old Red]

Not in its current pink hat wearing iteration it didn't.

 

1967 was the turn around, the Creation of the Nation, and seeing Fenway being filled on pretty much a nightly basis. No matter how you slice it, and dice it 1967 started it all. It being a creation of current ownership is nothing but fake news.

[Old Red]

Between 1967 and 2003 the Red Sox made the playoffs 9 times with 0 championships. That means the Red Sox were making the playoffs at a clip of about once every four seasons, and never won a championship.

 

You think not having all the wildcard setups that they have today had something to do with that? 1978 being a good example.

[Hugh2]

This team at the very least should be teaching the Sox the importance of defense. Yes, to some extent the defense has been made worse by injuries, and they've been forced to play with what they have to work with. And while some of that is due to a lot of injuries and misfortunes, it can certainly also be attributed to poor roster construction. Moving forward I hope Henry and Bloom take good hard looks at themeselves in the mirrors and say "Wow, our defense sucks, this is our fault, we shouldn't be so damn stingy on up-the-middle defense."

 

What is mind-boggling is the fact that there is evidence the Sox value up the middle. Sox draft heavily up the middle players who can pick it, so they obviously value that type of player.

 

If the Sox are buyers at the deadline two names I think they should take a good hard look at are Tim Anderson and Amed Rosario. Both these guys are having sub par seasons at the moment, but offer a lot of upside and could be poised for big second halves at a very low price. Even now, they would offer substantial upgrades over Kike at SS.

 

I like Anderson, because he has a team option for 2024 and would offer a nice bridge to Mayer. They would also keep Story at 2nd, where I think his defense could be elite. But we will see how he looks after coming back.

[notin]

1967 was the turn around, the Creation of the Nation, and seeing Fenway being filled on pretty much a nightly basis. No matter how you slice it, and dice it 1967 started it all. It being a creation of current ownership is nothing but fake news.

 

 

No one used the phrase “Red Sox Nation” until the 1980’s, and the first usage is up for debate between Globe sportswriters Nathan Cobb and Leigh Montville. (Source: ChatGPT)

[notin]

This team at the very least should be teaching the Sox the importance of defense. Yes, to some extent the defense has been made worse by injuries, and they've been forced to play with what they have to work with. And while some of that is due to a lot of injuries and misfortunes, it can certainly also be attributed to poor roster construction. Moving forward I hope Henry and Bloom take good hard looks at themeselves in the mirrors and say "Wow, our defense sucks, this is our fault, we shouldn't be so damn stingy on up-the-middle defense."

 

What is mind-boggling is the fact that there is evidence the Sox value up the middle. Sox draft heavily up the middle players who can pick it, so they obviously value that type of player.

 

If the Sox are buyers at the deadline two names I think they should take a good hard look at are Tim Anderson and Amed Rosario. Both these guys are having sub par seasons at the moment, but offer a lot of upside and could be poised for big second halves at a very low price. Even now, they would offer substantial upgrades over Kike at SS.

 

I like Anderson, because he has a team option for 2024 and would offer a nice bridge to Mayer. They would also keep Story at 2nd, where I think his defense could be elite. But we will see how he looks after coming back.

 

The White Sox aren’t moving Anderson. The AL Central is up for grabs and his option for next year is a cheap no-brainer for them…

[notin]

You think not having all the wildcard setups that they have today had something to do with that? 1978 being a good example.

 

Certainly they were hindered by not having the Wild Card. But you’re also going back to a time when payroll want the concern it clearly is today…

[Dipre]

You think not having all the wildcard setups that they have today had something to do with that? 1978 being a good example.

 

 

They also didn't have luxury tax, international players could be signed pretty much freely, and teams had a lot more control over their players. Let's not make excuses for crap teams.

[Dipre]

No one used the phrase “Red Sox Nation” until the 1980’s, and the first usage is up for debate between Globe sportswriters Nathan Cobb and Leigh Montville. (Source: ChatGPT)

 

And it didn't become a mainstream phenomenon until about the time they made Jerry captain. A Henry and co. PR cash cow.

[Old Red]

They also didn't have luxury tax, international players could be signed pretty much freely, and teams had a lot more control over their players. Let's not make excuses for crap teams.

Luxary tax had NOTHING to do with with the WL record not making the playoffs, which is what the discussion is about.

[Old Red]

And it didn't become a mainstream phenomenon until about the time they made Jerry captain. A Henry and co. PR cash cow.

As usual you see things as you want to, and I’ll see things as I want to, and I’ll stand by 1967 was the start.

[Dipre]

Luxary tax had NOTHING to do with with the WL record not making the playoffs, which is what the discussion is about.

 

Of course it did. The Yankees exploited that loophole for years, and got multiple championships and playoff berths out of it.

[Dipre]

As usual you see things as you want to, and I’ll see things as I want to, and I’ll stand by 1967 was the start.

 

No one used the phrase “Red Sox Nation” until the 1980’s, and the first usage is up for debate between Globe sportswriters Nathan Cobb and Leigh Montville. (Source: ChatGPT)

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Old Red]

Of course it did. The Yankees exploited that loophole for years, and got multiple championships and playoff berths out of it.

 

That may have helped the record be what it was, but did they have all the Wildcard stuff going on back in 1967, and if they did how many more Red Sox teams would have made the playoffs if they did? 1972, and 1978 are easy examples.

[notin]

As usual you see things as you want to, and I’ll see things as I want to, and I’ll stand by 1967 was the start.

 

You’re in conflict with ChatGPT. Not a debate you will win. It’s intelligence might be artificial, but it’s still intelligence…

[Old Red]

You’re in conflict with ChatGPT. Not a debate you will win. It’s intelligence might be artificial, but it’s still intelligence…

 

I said 1967 was the start with the key word being the start. Who coined it, and when is another story, but 1967 was the start.

[Old Red]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

See we agree.

[Hugh2]

The White Sox aren’t moving Anderson. The AL Central is up for grabs and his option for next year is a cheap no-brainer for them…

 

They are in third place behind Cleveland and Minnesota who are both better than them. If they're even more than 4.5 games out by the deadline they could easily become sellers. His option for next year doesn't make him unavailable, it just makes the return that much better for CHW opposed to going after someone like Amed who would just be a rental.

[Hugh2]

the White and Red Sox also have recent history of trading with each other.

[notin]

I said 1967 was the start with the key word being the start. Who coined it, and when is another story, but 1967 was the start.

 

Interesting and nonsensical distinction…

[notin]

They are in third place behind Cleveland and Minnesota who are both better than them. If they're even more than 4.5 games out by the deadline they could easily become sellers. His option for next year doesn't make him unavailable, it just makes the return that much better for CHW opposed to going after someone like Amed who would just be a rental.

 

The problem they have is that the entire standings in the AL Central can be re-arranged if anyone goes on a 4 game winning streak.

 

If the White Sox feel they are out of it, Giolito is a free agent and could go first. They’d probably have to be blown away to deal Anderson…