9/26 NYY (Montgomery) @ BOS (ERod)

[moonslav59]

Cold.

 

Would you agree to head or shoulder?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

No, in a WS game back then it would be a fair play.

 

I agree. The catcher blocks the plate at his own risk. What makes Rose an A-hole was that, I'm guessing, Fosse wasn't expecting to be run over in a meaningless game. He probably would have expected it in a meaningful game.

[moonslav59]

I agree. The catcher blocks the plate at his own risk. What makes Rose an A-hole was that, I'm guessing, Fosse wasn't expecting to be run over in a meaningless game. He probably would have expected it in a meaningful game.

 

Fosse was 3 feet up the line- blocking the plate.

 

The play was legit. He left Rose no place to slide.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Fosse was 3 feet up the line- blocking the plate.

 

The play was legit. He left Rose no place to slide.

 

That wasn't the point of my post.

[dgalehouse]

No, in a WS game back then it would be a fair play.

 

To Pete Rose, the All Star Game was just as big as the World Series. He desperately wanted to win.

[dgalehouse]

I wonder what Charley Hustle thinks today about MLBs and the NFLs association with gambling? And them making money from it?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I wonder what Charley Hustle thinks today about MLBs and the NFLs association with gambling? And them making money from it?

 

 

My question is was Rose any bigger a cheater than A-rod, McGuire, Clemens, Canseco, Sosa and Bonds? I say no.

[moonslav59]

That wasn't the point of my post.

 

I know, and I agree with your position.

 

Rose was a prick for doing that in an AS Game.

[mvp 78]

I know, and I agree with your position.

 

Rose was a prick for doing that in an AS Game.

 

No. It was fine actually. The play isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Rose should have slid around the tag for his own sake, not the catcher's sake.

[mvp 78]

Fosse was 3 feet up the line- blocking the plate.

 

The play was legit. He left Rose no place to slide.

 

This isn't true though. Players slide around catchers pretty easily these days.

[mvp 78]

It is not ok to do anything that causes or risks causing severe or career ending injury. Period. (Remember that a-hole Drysdale saying as an announcer after someone got hit in the head: "It's only a mild or severe head injury" ...). Even Eck was appalled when Richards went to the guy's head earlier this season. Liking that sort of thing does not mean you are tough or Old School--it means you're a freaking sociopath whose idea of sports is a perverse love for say, Tony C's career cut short, or cheap shots in football or hockey. Or perhaps you think Pete Rose's cheap shot on Fosse (which pretty much ended his career) just showed what a tough guy he was.

 

Not a cheap shot. That was within the rules of baseball back then.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

My question is was Rose any bigger a cheater than A-rod, McGuire, Clemens, Canseco, Sosa and Bonds? I say no.

 

Sosa was really something. PED's weren't enough; he also had to employ tennis balls in his bat. That none of the above should ever be inducted into the HOF is, at least, some kind of punishment.

[Bellhorn04]

Not a cheap shot. That was within the rules of baseball back then.

 

Shouldn't be done in an All Star game, is the issue.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

To change the subject, the MLB network is discussing who should win the MVP award. Ohtani is the front runner, but should he be considered because he plays on a non-contending team? I've always felt that the MVP award should go to a player who is on a contending team. There really is a simple solution to this problem.

MLB has no problem coming up with awards for just about every aspect of the game. So, just create a 'player of the year' award. It would be possible in certain years that the same player could win both MVP and Player of the Year.

[Bellhorn04]

To change the subject, the MLB network is discussing who should win the MVP award. Ohtani is the front runner, but should he be considered because he plays on a non-contending team? I've always felt that the MVP award should go to a player who is on a contending team. There really is a simple solution to this problem.

MLB has no problem coming up with awards for just about every aspect of the game. So, just create a 'player of the year' award. It would be possible in certain years that the same player could win both MVP and Player of the Year.

 

The thing about the MVP award is that there is clear precedent for guys on non-contending teams winning it (although they're probably at a disadvantage).

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The thing about the MVP award is that there is clear precedent for guys on non-contending teams winning it (although they're probably at a disadvantage).

 

True. I just don't agree with it. With or w/o Ohtani the Angels don't contend for the PO's. Does Toronto contend w/o Vlad? I think you get my point.

[mvp 78]

Shouldn't be done in an All Star game, is the issue.

 

Disagree. I've seen plays like that in slow pitch softball.

[dgalehouse]

Two deserving candidates in Ohtani and Guerrero Jr. Ohtani certainly leads in the publicity department. That should not matter , but unfortunately it often does.

[mvp 78]

To change the subject, the MLB network is discussing who should win the MVP award. Ohtani is the front runner, but should he be considered because he plays on a non-contending team? I've always felt that the MVP award should go to a player who is on a contending team. There really is a simple solution to this problem.

MLB has no problem coming up with awards for just about every aspect of the game. So, just create a 'player of the year' award. It would be possible in certain years that the same player could win both MVP and Player of the Year.

 

Vlad should win. Vlad had a much superior offensive season. Ohtani was 17th in hitting fWAR and 40th in pitching fWAR. He was good, but not great. If he was top 10 in both pitching AND hitting, maybe he has a case.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Vlad should win. Vlad had a much superior offensive season. Ohtani was 17th in hitting fWAR and 40th in pitching fWAR. He was good, but not great. If he was top 10 in both pitching AND hitting, maybe he has a case.

 

I agree 100%. Although I can respect what Ohtani has done this season, simply amazing, but again I would vote for the player on the contending team, which means I would vote for Vlad.

[notin]

Vlad should win. Vlad had a much superior offensive season. Ohtani was 17th in hitting fWAR and 40th in pitching fWAR. He was good, but not great. If he was top 10 in both pitching AND hitting, maybe he has a case.

 

Cases can be made for Marcus Semien and Jose Ramirez as well…

[notin]

I agree 100%. Although I can respect what Ohtani has done this season, simply amazing, but again I would vote for the player on the contending team, which means I would vote for Vlad.

 

Precedent exists that MVP can come from a non-contending team. Heck, Andre Dawson and Alex Rodriguez both win the award for last place teams. That makes no sense to me about them being valuable at all. Both teams could have come in last without them.

 

But there are rules for MVP eligibility and team contention is not a factor.

 

The rules also explicitly state pitchers are eligible, but that didn’t stop George King from rewriting them to deny Pedro the award. (King apparently did learn the rules in time to vote for David Wells shortly after)…

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I agree 100%. Although I can respect what Ohtani has done this season, simply amazing, but again I would vote for the player on the contending team, which means I would vote for Vlad.

 

 

This being said, I would give Ohtani my non-existent Player of the Year award.

[notin]

My question is was Rose any bigger a cheater than A-rod, McGuire, Clemens, Canseco, Sosa and Bonds? I say no.

 

Rose didn’t cheat at all. But he broke a very clear and well-advertised rule and knew what he was doing. Every clubhouse in MLB has a giant sign in it stating betting on baseball = lifetime ban. He chose to defy it and knew the consequences.

 

Just because he didn’t cheat doesn’t make him ethical…

[notin]

This being said, I would give Ohtani my non-existent Player of the Year award.

 

Really, MVP is a Player of the Year Award. In every sport…

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Really, MVP is a Player of the Year Award. In every sport…

 

It's all in how one defines MVP. I've stated my case and I'm pretty sure my solution will not be adopted by MLB.

[Bellhorn04]

Disagree. I've seen plays like that in slow pitch softball.

 

Must be some crazy-ass slow pitch players in your area.

[mvp 78]

It's all in how one defines MVP. I've stated my case and I'm pretty sure my solution will not be adopted by MLB.

 

Most Valuable PLAYER

[mvp 78]

Must be some crazy-ass slow pitch players in your area.

 

That's every area. There's always people that play too seriously.

[mvp 78]

Cases can be made for Marcus Semien and Jose Ramirez as well…

 

Sure, but I think Vlad is bit above those two. He really had a transcendent season.