8/27 @ Cleveland

[moonslav59]

That leadoff walk was awful, but after that Ottavino was masterful even though he's lousy at holding runners on.

 

He has to start learning to walk the 3rd guy not the first.

[moonslav59]

He’s done the job most of the time, but he doesn’t seem to have many clean innings.

 

Despite the walks that always seem to be to the lead off guy, his numbers look pretty good.

[Tedballgame]

He’s done the job most of the time, but he doesn’t seem to have many clean innings.

 

He believes that the new rule is a man on second with no outs in the 9th.

[moonslav59]

He believes that the new rule is a man on second with no outs in the 9th.

 

LOL. Good one!

[iortiz]

Had to call this one back up from page 5. It's a complete misread of ERod's pitching tonight, which was competent and, going out to pitch the 7th, gutsy.

 

This is ERod's 4th good start in his last 5 starts. I am not an ERod fan, but have to give credit when credit is due.

 

ER is coming from a severe healthy issue. He was expected to struggle, or at least it wasn't going to be easy for him in the first half of the season.

 

Do not forget. He was a 6th-vote CY caliber pitcher a couple of years ago, and the year before he was at the same level (and maybe better). IMO he is coming back nicely and quietly, and next year he will be solid again all year long.

[iortiz]

The walk was to the 4th slot. the next guys were 5, 6, 7 not 7, 8, 9, but yes, LOL!

 

 

All good.

 

I missed to mention that my comment was after the walk and the potential walk of the next hitter.

[Maxbialystock]

He believes that the new rule is a man on second with no outs in the 9th.

 

Agree with moonslav--great one!

[mvp 78]

That leadoff walk was awful, but after that Ottavino was masterful even though he's lousy at holding runners on.

 

Did he even hit his target once. He was all over the place.

[moonslav59]

We're starting to pull games out, like we did the first 100 games.

 

Let's hope we keep it going.

 

We did this without JD, Kike, Arroyo, Renfroe, Barnes, DHern, among others.

[Maxbialystock]

ER is coming from a severe healthy issue. He was expected to struggle, or at least it wasn't going to be easy for him in the first half of the season.

 

Do not forget. He was a 6th-vote CY caliber pitcher a couple of years ago, and the year before he was at the same level (and maybe better). IMO he is coming back nicely and quietly, and next year he will be solid again all year long.

 

Let me be honest and say I've always had doubts about ERod. I never liked his preference for throwing fastballs most of the time. I think someone told him (or he told himself) to look calm not matter what, and I have interpreted that as not caring. Wrong.

 

This year we've seen him have big ups and downs, but my overall impression is that he has shown real grit, especially lately. Plus he is definitely mixing up his pitches and using the fastball less. His stuff and control aren't as good as Sale's, but he is pitching the same way--mixing 3 (actually 4 including the cutter) pitches and throwing to spots rather than the middle of the strike zone.

 

Tonight I think he pitched a big game, especially given that the Sox were behind from the get go. This is also his 4th good start in his last 5 games.

[iortiz]

Let me be honest and say I've always had doubts about ERod. I never liked his preference for throwing fastballs most of the time. I think someone told him (or he told himself) to look calm not matter what, and I have interpreted that as not caring. Wrong.

 

This year we've seen him have big ups and downs, but my overall impression is that he has shown real grit, especially lately. Plus he is definitely mixing up his pitches and using the fastball less. His stuff and control aren't as good as Sale's, but he is pitching the same way--mixing 3 (actually 4 including the cutter) pitches and throwing to spots rather than the middle of the strike zone.

 

Tonight I think he pitched a big game, especially given that the Sox were behind from the get go. This is also his 4th good start in his last 5 games.

 

Yeh it is encouraging. I have to check it twice but I bet his BABIP has regressed. Early in the season it was kind of high.

[TylerD]

We're starting to pull games out, like we did the first 100 games.

 

Let's hope we keep it going.

 

We did this without JD, Kike, Arroyo, Renfroe, Barnes, DHern, among others.

 

Glad to not see Barnes tonight haha but I get what you’re saying.

[Maxbialystock]

We're starting to pull games out, like we did the first 100 games.

 

Let's hope we keep it going.

 

We did this without JD, Kike, Arroyo, Renfroe, Barnes, DHern, among others.

 

Agree completely. I think we started that two games ago when Shwarber tied it 4-4 in the 9th with a 2 run dinger--after the bullpen had pitched 5 scoreless innings-- and even though Robles gave up 5 runs in the top of the 10th. Even then, however, the Sox scored 2 in the 10th and would have had more if Vazquez doesn't hit into that double play.

 

Shwarber has been a good shot in the arm and tonight he played freaking 1b! Dalbec got another hit tonight. So I think the hitting will be OK if guys can stay off the CL (covid list).

 

And Cora and Bloom have reassembled a pitching staff that just might be good enough. Four of the five starters--but not Houck--have the potential to go 5 or 6 good innings. And the bullpen shambles, as you kind of predicted, is somehow getting back to getting guys out.

 

Richards right now is pretty solid--1 run in 10 innings as a reliever--as are Whitlock and maybe Ottavino. Then there are Sawamura, Taylor, and, wait for it, some guy named Barnes who I think can come back if not as the closer. Plus others like Valdez and DHernandez when the get off the IL.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Maxbialystock

[Maxbialystock]

Did he even hit his target once. He was all over the place.

 

He struck out 2 guys and got the 3d out on a harmless groundout. He had to be doing something right. I think he walked the leadoff guy because he was a tad nervous.

[Tedballgame]

Agree completely. I think we started that two games ago when Shwarber tied it 4-4 in the 9th with a 2 run dinger--after the bullpen had pitched 5 scoreless innings-- and even though Robles gave up 5 runs in the top of the 10th. Even then, however, the Sox scored 2 in the 10th and would have had more if Vazquez doesn't hit into that double play.

 

Shwarber has been a good shot in the arm and tonight he played freaking 1b! Dalbec got another hit tonight. So I think the hitting will be OK if guys can stay off the CL (covid list).

 

And Cora and Bloom have reassembled a pitching staff that just might be good enough. Four of the five starters--but not Houck--have the potential to go 5 or 6 good innings. And the bullpen shambles, as you kind of predicted, is somehow getting back to getting guys out.

 

Richards right now is pretty solid--1 run in 10 innings as a reliever--as are Whitlock and maybe Ottavino. Then there are Sawamura, Taylor, and, wait for it, some guy named Barnes who I think can come back if not as the closer. Plus others like Valdez and DHernandez when the get off the IL.

 

J.D., Bogaerts and Devers still have the carry the team offensively, or at least do their part. Schwarber certainly helps the offense. Tonight, the top 5 went 0-19. Can't win too many with that happening.

[Tedballgame]

Schwarber vs. Rizzo. Rizzo now hitting .204 with Yankees, .316 OBP. I'll take Schwarber any day.

[iortiz]

Schwarber vs. Rizzo. Rizzo now hitting .204 with Yankees, .316 OBP. I'll take Schwarber any day.

 

Schwarber was doing better with the NAts than Rizzo with the Cubs, so it was a no-brainer.

 

Thing was, Schwarber was not healthy and it was uncertain, although we all bet Bloom did his diligence in that regard at least, in order to take the risk.

Edited August 28, 2021 by iortiz

[moonslav59]

Schwarber was doing better with the NAts than Rizzo with the Cubs, so it was a no-brainer.

 

Thing was, Schwarber was not healthy and it was uncertain, although we all bet Bloom did his diligence in that regard at least, in order to take the risk.

 

As always, many fell for the immediate gratification trick.

 

Rizzo had an OPS barely better than Dalbec's. Some of us pointed that out, but the Bloom doubters swarmed this board.

 

Not only did we get the best guy, we gave up less.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

As always, many fell for the immediate gratification trick.

 

Rizzo had an OPS barely better than Dalbec's. Some of us pointed that out, but the Bloom doubters swarmed this board.

 

Not only did we get the best guy, we gave up less.

 

What the stats don't show, but that the industry won't stop lauding, is that the deadline addition of Rizzo on the field, in the dugout and the clubhouse had some profound rejuvenation on the Yankees that inspired them to never lose again. Yes, Schwarber is also a world champ and a better hitter, but Rizzo's glove would have filled a more immediate need and made more of an impact the entire month of August in Boston. It's doubtful the Sox would win 13 in a row, but maybe they'd have another W or two with Rizzo making plays, saving a few errant throws and conserving pitch counts.

 

And maybe both NY and Boston will still make the postseason, so it won't really matter, after all...

[Maxbialystock]

Schwarber vs. Rizzo. Rizzo now hitting .204 with Yankees, .316 OBP. I'll take Schwarber any day.

 

Since they got Rizzo and the Sox got Shwarber, the Yankees have gone 21-4 and currently have a 13 game winning streak. The Sox, meanwhile, have gone 11-13. So I'm not so sure the Yankees are clueless in the Bronx.

 

That said, like everyone else, I'm delighted Shwarber has contributed so well even though he missed the first 2 weeks. I'm also satisfied that Bloom knows what he is doing and no doubt complying with some ground rules laid down by John Henry.

 

With Shwarber at 1b, the Sox could have a really good lineup with Arroyo back at 2b and Kike back in CF and JDM--provided he rediscovers his lost swing--at DH.

 

Alternatively--and this is kind of neat--Cora now has the alternative of sliding Dalbec, whose August OPS is 1.183 with 5 dingers and 19 rbi's, back into the 1B slot and installing Shwarber at DH. As others have already said, JDM's one good month in 2021 was April, OPS 1.175. Since then his best OPS has been .801. In August it's been .703 with 3 dingers and 13 rbi's. Night before last, the Twins walked Shwarber 4 times to get to JDM, who was 0 for 5.

 

All that said, the Sox real problem, season long, has been pitching, which as moonlav and others have shown, is undercut by the weak Sox defense.

 

Mostly, it's been the rotation, so Cora finally replaced Richards and Perez with Sale and Houck, which has definitely helped. However, Barnes, he of the new and lucrative contract extension, has recently sabotaged the bullpen and is now just one of 9 relievers hoping to contribute.

 

In the last 3 games, however, the bullpen--Robles execrable 10th vs. the Twins notwithstanding--has shown signs of bouncing back. Richards--surprise, surprise--has been excellent in relief. Whitlock remains our best reliever by far. Ottavino, Sawamura, Taylor, and others have also been good. Barnes might even prove to be effective, just not as a closer or as an occasional closer.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Maxbialystock

[Maxbialystock]

What the stats don't show, but that the industry won't stop lauding, is that the deadline addition of Rizzo on the field, in the dugout and the clubhouse had some profound rejuvenation on the Yankees that inspired them to never lose again. Yes, Schwarber is also a world champ and a better hitter, but Rizzo's glove would have filled a more immediate need and made more of an impact the entire month of August in Boston. It's doubtful the Sox would win 13 in a row, but maybe they'd have another W or two with Rizzo making plays, saving a few errant throws and conserving pitch counts.

 

And maybe both NY and Boston will still make the postseason, so it won't really matter, after all...

 

Rizzo's glove!!!!!??????? The Yankees go 21-4 and the Sox go 11-13 in August because the Yankees had Rizzo's glove and the Sox didn't?

 

Give me a break, and "the industry" can go pound sand.

[moonslav59]

What the stats don't show, but that the industry won't stop lauding, is that the deadline addition of Rizzo on the field, in the dugout and the clubhouse had some profound rejuvenation on the Yankees that inspired them to never lose again. Yes, Schwarber is also a world champ and a better hitter, but Rizzo's glove would have filled a more immediate need and made more of an impact the entire month of August in Boston. It's doubtful the Sox would win 13 in a row, but maybe they'd have another W or two with Rizzo making plays, saving a few errant throws and conserving pitch counts.

 

And maybe both NY and Boston will still make the postseason, so it won't really matter, after all...

 

What's doubtful is that Rizzo made a big difference. Without Dalbec and Schwabs bats, we might have 2-3 more losses.

 

What's not doubtful is that the Yanks gave up more than we should have to get him. (To me, Gallo was the bigger get.)

 

The Yanks wwere something like 7-3 before the trade, so I'm not sure one can point to Rizzo in the dugout and clubhouse as the turning point.

 

We'll never know, and maybe who the Yanks gave up will not amount to squat, but we did the right thing, IMO.

[moonslav59]

Let me be honest and say I've always had doubts about ERod. I never liked his preference for throwing fastballs most of the time. I think someone told him (or he told himself) to look calm not matter what, and I have interpreted that as not caring. Wrong.

 

This year we've seen him have big ups and downs, but my overall impression is that he has shown real grit, especially lately. Plus he is definitely mixing up his pitches and using the fastball less. His stuff and control aren't as good as Sale's, but he is pitching the same way--mixing 3 (actually 4 including the cutter) pitches and throwing to spots rather than the middle of the strike zone.

 

Tonight I think he pitched a big game, especially given that the Sox were behind from the get go. This is also his 4th good start in his last 5 games.

 

Well said.

 

People see the 5.12 ERA and that's all they want to know. They forget the guy had serious issues with COVID and missed a whole season, yet still began pitching in early April.

 

He's really done a fine job in his last 11 starts- a time when other starters were losing their roles, and the pen began its implosion.

 

Despite having the worst D in MLB behind him, he's put up a 3.83 ERA and .693 OPS against in the past 11 games- not easy when the OPS have a .328 BAbip over that time (thanks to the D).

 

The team has gone 11-4 in his last 15 starts and 16-9 over the whole season. The team W-L record with him starting, since 2018 is astounding. I believe it's the best team winning % in MLB.

 

With Sale & Eovaldi looking solid, ERod might just be the key to it all.

[moonslav59]

J.D., Bogaerts and Devers still have the carry the team offensively, or at least do their part. Schwarber certainly helps the offense. Tonight, the top 5 went 0-19. Can't win too many with that happening.

 

Schwarber has to be counted in the top 3 or 4, but I agree with your point. They all need to start doing better.

 

I've never been one to think a player's last 5, 10 or 20 game sample size is a good predictor of what will come next, so I fully expect all of these guys to pull their weight going forward.

 

There is no reason to think otherwise.

 

Of course, players slump, all the time. One of these guys may not do well, but my guess is that 3 of the 4 do wonders, and by that I just mean do what they normally do (.850+).

[moonslav59]

Schwarber was doing better with the NAts than Rizzo with the Cubs, so it was a no-brainer.

 

Thing was, Schwarber was not healthy and it was uncertain, although we all bet Bloom did his diligence in that regard at least, in order to take the risk.

 

At the time of the trade, and even more so after Rizzo started out with a couple nice games, what was the mood of this board on the deadline moves and Bloom?

 

Hardly anyone thought Schwarber was a "no-brainer" over Rizzo. I'm thinking there were maybe 2 or 3 of us, but I could be remembering incorrectly.

[moonslav59]

Since they got Rizzo and the Sox got Shwarber, the Yankees have gone 21-4 and currently have a 13 game winning streak. The Sox, meanwhile, have gone 11-13. So I'm not so sure the Yankees are clueless in the Bronx.

 

That said, like everyone else, I'm delighted Shwarber has contributed so well even though he missed the first 2 weeks. I'm also satisfied that Bloom knows what he is doing and no doubt complying with some ground rules laid down by John Henry.

 

With Shwarber at 1b, the Sox could have a really good lineup with Arroyo back at 2b and Kike back in CF and JDM--provided he rediscovers his lost swing--at DH.

 

Alternatively--and this is kind of neat--Cora now has the alternative of sliding Dalbec, whose August OPS is 1.183 with 5 dingers and 19 rbi's, back into the 1B slot and installing Shwarber at DH. As others have already said, JDM's one good month in 2021 was April, OPS 1.175. Since then his best OPS has been .801. In August it's been .703 with 3 dingers and 13 rbi's. Night before last, the Twins walked Shwarber 4 times to get to JDM, who was 0 for 5.

 

All that said, the Sox real problem, season long, has been pitching, which as moonlav and others have shown, is undercut by the weak Sox defense.

 

Mostly, it's been the rotation, so Cora finally replaced Richards and Perez with Sale and Houck, which has definitely helped. However, Barnes, he of the new and lucrative contract extension, has recently sabotaged the bullpen and is now just one of 9 relievers hoping to contribute.

 

In the last 3 games, however, the bullpen--Robles execrable 10th vs. the Twins notwithstanding--has shown signs of bouncing back. Richards--surprise, surprise--has been excellent in relief. Whitlock remains our best reliever by far. Ottavino, Sawamura, Taylor, and others have also been good. Barnes might even prove to be effective, just not as a closer or as an occasional closer.

 

Max, you have been nailing it.

 

I'll just add that not only will a line-up with Schwarber at 1B, Arroyo at 2B and Kike in CF, assuming it does happen, be the best we've seen all season, it will also improve the defense over wwhat we have been seeing while Arroyo and others have been out injured.

 

Kike belongs in CF. Period.

 

Arroyo is a fine defensive 2Bman.

 

Schwarber at 1B is a huge question mark, but our defense at 1B, especially over the past 2-3 weeks has been about as bad as can possibly be, so it's hard to imagine it being any worse.

 

Also, having Dalbec on the bench as a PH'er vs a lefty is a huge plus.

 

I know Cora has his own ideas on line-up construction, and I'm not saying my plans is better than what he will do, but here's how I would do it:

 

vs RHP

1. Kike CF

2. Schwarber 1B

3. Bogey SS

4. Devers 3B

5. JD DH

6. Verdugo LF

7. Renfroe RF

8. Arroyo 2B

9. Vaz-Plawecki C

 

vs LHPs

1. Kike 2B

2. Schwarber LF

3. Bogey SS

4. JD DH

5. Devers 3B

6. Renfroe RF

7. Dalbec 1B

8. Verdugo CF

9. Vaz-Plawecki C

 

Basically, Arroyo and Dalbec are platooned.