Yanks acquire Jameson Taillon

[a700hitter]

The only issue was they made a mistake in signing him as a pitcher. In retrospect, they should have just thrown him in the OF. At the time, they signed him for his "athleticism" not because of his pitching.

 

The draft is always a crapshoot. Sometimes they've hedged their bets and went for safe picks like Deven Marrero, but I'd rather them just go for the high upside guys every time.

Blowing the #7 overall pick is a major fail.

[notin]

Blowing the #7 overall pick is a major fail.

 

Although it is also a common one...

[moonslav59]

He had some plus moves though.

 

Signing Koji.

Trading Miller for E-Rod.

 

Blind squirrel.

 

He also "dumped" Beckett just in time.

 

Some liked/loved the Peavy & Dempster deals.

 

Badenhop was a nice cheap get.

 

Porcello worked out well.

 

ERod was a steal.

[Bellhorn04]

He also "dumped" Beckett just in time.

 

Some liked/loved the Peavy & Dempster deals.

 

Badenhop was a nice cheap get.

 

Porcello worked out well.

 

ERod was a steal.

 

I liked the Peavy trade a lot. It was the kind of move you have to make when you're chasing a title.

[notin]

For PIT, even $2.5M is too much salary.

 

IMO, Ben got hosed, but I've been wrong often.

 

No it isn't. They signed Polanco to an extension a while back that is paying him nearly $15mill this year.

 

They still have a contract with Felipe Vazquez that would be paying him $7.75 mill that they only got out of because that dude has some serious problems. (I assume he does not get paid while in prison.)

 

This year, they have arbitration hearings for at least 3 other players (Brault, Kuhl, Rodriguez) that will end up paying each more than Taillon settled for once the arbitration numbers are said and done.

 

Taillon was NOT their most expensive piece remaining and NOT unaffordable. But what he was was a player that looked like a risk to make it to the All Star break, and they unloaded him while he still had some potential. And 28 other teams also clearly felt Taillon was a risk, because that Yankee package was easily beatable, but 28 other teams (including Boston) bowed out.

[notin]

Ben is awful at evaluating pitching talent at every level. How about that Trey Ball -#7 overall in 2013 draft.

 

Every scouting organization in the country had Trey Ball as a mid-first rounder at worst. Every mock draft had him in the early to mid first round.

 

That failure was on Ball...

[a700hitter]

He also "dumped" Beckett just in time.

 

Some liked/loved the Peavy & Dempster deals.

 

Badenhop was a nice cheap get.

 

Porcello worked out well.

 

ERod was a steal.

Porcello at $21 million per year was no great deal. He had 3 complete stinker years, 1 so-so season and 1 excellent season.

 

Badenhop? I am not sure that I would want that at the top of my resume.

[Bellhorn04]

Every scouting organization in the country had Trey Ball as a mid-first rounder at worst. Every mock draft had him in the early to mid first round.

 

That failure was on Ball...

 

It's the nature of the game. Baseball is hard.

[a700hitter]

Every scouting organization in the country had Trey Ball as a mid-first rounder at worst. Every mock draft had him in the early to mid first round.

 

That failure was on Ball...

Balls failure was on Ball. The failure in evaluating him was 100% on Ben. The pick was considered questionable at best at the time. You don’t draft a project with the #7 overall.

[notin]

Balls failure was on Ball. The failure in evaluating him was 100% on Ben. The pick was considered questionable at best at the time. You don’t draft a project with the #7 overall.

 

Again, every talent evaluator in the country had Ball as one of the best picks that year. Most mock drafts had him going in the 6 - 14 range. The guy drafted right after him (Hunter Dozier) was not even on anyone's first round board. (KC was saving slot money, which was a common strategy at the time.) Ball was legitimate pick in that slot. He just did not pan out.

 

That year, the closest thing to a surefire pick was supposed to be Mark Appel, who never did anything despite being a top 6 pick twice. Ball wasn't even the biggest bust among LHP in that draft, as Kohl Stewart went three picks ahead of him. The top ten picks in the draft included four pitchers who to date have combined for 63 IP in MLB, with Stewart getting 62 of them. That year might have been the worst ever for pitchers, as the only two first round picks still pitching in MLB are Jon Gray and Marco Gonzalez.

 

The current Sox team does have two first rounders from that draft as position players in Christian Arroyo and Hunter Renfroe.

 

Every pick is a project. The most MLB-ready players the Sox have taken in recent years per every scouting and talent evaluator were Craig Hansen and Durban Feltman. Hansen did nothing and Feltman has yet to appear in a game...

[a700hitter]

Again, every talent evaluator in the country had Ball as one of the best picks that year. Most mock drafts had him going in the 6 - 14 range. The guy drafted right after him (Hunter Dozier) was not even on anyone's first round board. (KC was saving slot money, which was a common strategy at the time.) Ball was legitimate pick in that slot. He just did not pan out.

 

That year, the closest thing to a surefire pick was supposed to be Mark Appel, who never did anything despite being a top 6 pick twice. Ball wasn't even the biggest bust among LHP in that draft, as Kohl Stewart went three picks ahead of him. The top ten picks in the draft included four pitchers who to date have combined for 63 IP in MLB, with Stewart getting 62 of them. That year might have been the worst ever for pitchers, as the only two first round picks still pitching in MLB are Jon Gray and Marco Gonzalez.

 

The current Sox team does have two first rounders from that draft as position players in Christian Arroyo and Hunter Renfroe.

 

Every pick is a project. The most MLB-ready players the Sox have taken in recent years per every scouting and talent evaluator were Craig Hansen and Durban Feltman. Hansen did nothing and Feltman has yet to appear in a game...

Ben knows Jack s*** about pitching. His record with pitching is awful. But keep making excuses for a GM who has perfected last place finishes.

 

When did Aaron Judge go that draft? That was a good pick. He also passed on Austin Meadows and Tim Anderson.

Edited January 27, 2021 by a700hitter

[moonslav59]

No it isn't. They signed Polanco to an extension a while back that is paying him nearly $15mill this year.

 

They still have a contract with Felipe Vazquez that would be paying him $7.75 mill that they only got out of because that dude has some serious problems. (I assume he does not get paid while in prison.)

 

This year, they have arbitration hearings for at least 3 other players (Brault, Kuhl, Rodriguez) that will end up paying each more than Taillon settled for once the arbitration numbers are said and done.

 

Taillon was NOT their most expensive piece remaining and NOT unaffordable. But what he was was a player that looked like a risk to make it to the All Star break, and they unloaded him while he still had some potential. And 28 other teams also clearly felt Taillon was a risk, because that Yankee package was easily beatable, but 28 other teams (including Boston) bowed out.

 

I disagree. PIT is looking to dump salary. They'd trade Polanco in a heartbeat, if anybody wanted him.

 

They are also looking to trade Feazier.

 

No, Taillon was not the most expensive, but even at $2.5M, he was the 4th highest salary and the easiest to trade for something of value.

 

If he was making $1M and had 3+ years of control, he's still a Pirate.

[notin]

I disagree. PIT is looking to dump salary. They'd trade Polanco in a heartbeat, if anybody wanted him.

 

They are also looking to trade Feazier.

 

No, Taillon was not the most expensive, but even at $2.5M, he was the 4th highest salary and the easiest to trade for something of value.

 

If he was making $1M and had 3+ years of control, he's still a Pirate.

 

Taillon was available not due to his salary. but because he was a potential difference maker. But if they had a better feeling about him alsting until July, don't you think they would have held him that long?

 

Nothing about that Yankee offer said "We have to take this deal NOW." So why did they take it now?

[moonslav59]

Porcello at $21 million per year was no great deal. He had 3 complete stinker years, 1 so-so season and 1 excellent season.

 

Badenhop? I am not sure that I would want that at the top of my resume.

 

Two of those "stinker seasons" saw an ERA under 5 and a WHIP under 1.39. While that is not all that good for $21M, it's about what most team's 3rd or 4th starters offer, but without 200+ IP.

 

Badenhop was not on the top of the resume, but he was a nice find at that cost.

 

No, Ben was not great at pitcher additions, but not all were stinkers.

 

He did worse with HRam & Pablito.

[moonslav59]

Taillon was available not due to his salary. but because he was a potential difference maker. But if they had a better feeling about him alsting until July, don't you think they would have held him that long?

 

Nothing about that Yankee offer said "We have to take this deal NOW." So why did they take it now?

 

They took it now, because they wanted to cut $2.5M from their budget and felt it was the best offer.

[notin]

They took it now, because they wanted to cut $2.5M from their budget and felt it was the best offer.

 

And because if they waited, they knew there was a legitimate chance they would not be able to unload him...

[a700hitter]

Two of those "stinker seasons" saw an ERA under 5 and a WHIP under 1.39. While that is not all that good for $21M, it's about what most team's 3rd or 4th starters offer, but without 200+ IP.

 

Badenhop was not on the top of the resume, but he was a nice find at that cost.

 

No, Ben was not great at pitcher additions, but not all were stinkers.

 

He did worse with HRam & Pablito.

No argument with that conclusion.

[moonslav59]

And because if they waited, they knew there was a legitimate chance they would not be able to unload him...

 

The health was a major factor, granted, but no way they trade him, if he was making $850K.

 

Would you have given 4 Chavises for him?

[notin]

The health was a major factor, granted, but no way they trade him, if he was making $850K.

 

Would you have given 4 Chavises for him?

 

Sure. Would they take it? Probably not.

 

Maybe the Sox should inquire about Richard Rodriguez...

[moonslav59]

Sure. Would they take it? Probably not.

 

Let's try this: here's how BTV might match the values of our prospects to those the Yanks actually gave up for Taillon:

 

Smith OF 7.6> Yorke 2B 7.6

Yajure P 5.4> Potts 3B 5.4

Contreras P 4.8> Song P 4.6

Escotto SS 4.0> Rosario 4.0

 

Would you give those 4?

 

Or?

 

7.6 Yorke

6.0 Chavis

5.3 Ward

4.3 Groome

 

Or?

10.8 Jimenez

5.3 Ward

4.3 Groome

3.0 Murphy

 

Or?

6.0 Jordan

5.3 Ward

5.0 Lugo

4.3 Groome

[Bellhorn04]

Let's try this: here's how BTV might match the values of our prospects to those the Yanks actually gave up for Taillon:

 

We can't totally rely on BTV for prospect values, though. I'm guessing Ben had his own evaluations of these prospects.

[jacksonianmarch]

It doesn’t make sense for the Sox to get Taillon with him hitting the market after 2022. If Taillon was controlled in 23, he’d do it

[moonslav59]

It doesn’t make sense for the Sox to get Taillon with him hitting the market after 2022. If Taillon was controlled in 23, he’d do it

 

Only because you think a team spending over $200M a year will take 5 years to rebuild. (We're already in year 2 or 3.)

 

BTW, your team took just days to rebuild.

 

Remember?

[moonslav59]

We can't totally rely on BTV for prospect values, though. I'm guessing Ben had his own evaluations of these prospects.

 

No you can't, so that's one reason I provided 4 or 5 examples.

 

I'm not saying any would have been preferred by Ben, but my suggested offers are likely close to what it might have taken.

 

(I bet Ben would take the one with Jimenez in it.)

[Bellhorn04]

No you can't, so that's one reason I provided 4 or 5 examples.

 

I'm not saying any would have been preferred by Ben, but my suggested offers are likely close to what it might have taken.

 

(I bet Ben would take the one with Jimenez in it.)

 

Maybe he would take that one.

 

But we're supposed to be trying to build up our farm again, not re-decimating it.

[Kimmi]

For PIT, even $2.5M is too much salary.

 

IMO, Ben got hosed, but I've been wrong often.

 

Most evaluators of this trade feel that Ben did a good job.

[dgalehouse]

I tend to be results oriented. The ultimate goal is winning. For a G.M. or most anyone. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. But sometimes when the pudding turns out terrible , some folks still say that the cook did a good job. That is true loyalty . Or true stubbornness .

[Bellhorn04]

I tend to be results oriented. The ultimate goal is winning. For a G.M. or most anyone. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. But sometimes when the pudding turns out terrible , some folks still say that the cook did a good job. That is true loyalty . Or true stubbornness .

 

In other words, you still don't get the praise for Bloom, right?

[moonslav59]

Maybe he would take that one.

 

But we're supposed to be trying to build up our farm again, not re-decimating it.

 

None of the trades I mentioned would come close to "decimation." I'll be thrilled if these 4 combines even play 2 years in MLB, let alone at the level Taillon is.

[moonslav59]

Most evaluators of this trade feel that Ben did a good job.

 

Is there some survey results somewhere?