Red Sox close to deal with Kevin Pillar

[Bellhorn04]

Oh I forgot to add Bloom still got hosed.

 

There might be an argument that he could have done better.

 

Saying he got hosed is just plain dumb.

[Elktonnick]

There might be an argument that he could have done better.

 

Saying he got hosed is just plain dumb.

 

Saying he didn't is just dumber. And trading the best player in baseball not named Trout for a morally challenged immature player with a bad back and a history of not giving 100% effort and bad judgment is the dumbest of it all.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Elktonnick

[notin]

Saying he didn't is just dumber. And trading the best player in baseball not named Trout for a morally challenged immature player with a bad back and a history of not giving 100% effort and bad judgment is the dumbest of it all.

 

So you’re on record as saying you think the superior offer involved taking back Myers, keeping Price and not resetting?

 

Those were the same only options. Pipe dreaming about some fictional third team jumping in last minute with the moon and stars isn’t an option

[Elktonnick]

So you’re on record as saying you think the superior offer involved taking back Myers, keeping Price and not resetting?

 

Those were the same only options. Pipe dreaming about some fictional third team jumping in last minute with the moon and stars isn’t an option

 

No I am not. Stop putting words in my mouth. I am on record for not trading Betts unless or until the Sox were out of contention this year. I am on record on not giving up their best baseball asset unless they got the bone fide pitching prospects or starting pitching they needed if they were going to make a trade prior to the trading deadline. I am against giving up the 2020 season without competing. That is what I am on the record for. All the rest is just quiters rationalizing a bad deal by a new GM who got schooled by his mentor and former boss.

[moonslav59]

Big assumption we could get a top pitcher at the deadline. Plus, at the deadline, we only save $9M on Betts and are still stuck with Price and no reset.

 

Let's give this trade some time.

[Elktonnick]

Big assumption we could get a top pitcher at the deadline. Plus, at the deadline, we only save $9M on Betts and are still stuck with Price and no reset.

 

Let's give this trade some time.

 

Bloom and Henry screwed up on Price as I said months ago. They so devalued him that they literally couldn't give him away. They should have made a concerted effort to trade him as soon as possible instead they dithered.

 

I make no assumptions. What I am saying is they shouldn't have traded Betts at all unless they got exactly what they needed. Instead Bloom got hosed by his former boss because Boston essentially gave him away for an amoral immature injured player with a record of not giving 100% and poor judgment.

 

Everyone is convinced that Verdugo is going to bounce back from an injury that caused him to miss the last two months of the season and they are hoping he may be able to play by April. Even if he is ready to play by then you know they are going to baby him for the next month because if he goes down with another back injury Red Sox Nation will be clamoring for Bloom's scalp.

 

Henry and Bloom misplayed this whole mess from the outset. In fairness, I think crooked Cora getting caught up by the Astros and possibly Boston cheating scandal has so distracted Henry and his minions that they haven't been thinking clearly for months.

[moonslav59]

Bloom and Henry screwed up on Price as I said months ago. They so devalued him that they literally couldn't give him away. They should have made a concerted effort to trade him as soon as possible instead they dithered.

 

I make no assumptions. What I am saying is they shouldn't have traded Betts at all unless they got exactly what they needed. Instead Bloom got hosed by his former boss because Boston essentially gave him away for an amoral immature injured player with a record of not giving 100% and poor judgment.

 

Everyone is convinced that Verdugo is going to bounce back from an injury that caused him to miss the last two months of the season and they are hoping he may be able to play by April. Even if he is ready to play by then you know they are going to baby him for the next month because if he goes down with another back injury Red Sox Nation will be clamoring for Bloom's scalp.

 

Henry and Bloom misplayed this whole mess from the outset. In fairness, I think crooked Cora getting caught up by the Astros and possibly Boston cheating scandal has so distracted Henry and his minions that they haven't been thinking clearly for months.

 

1) Nobody is "convinced" of anything, but Verdugo has many years of team control. Judge, now, if you must.

2) Is wasn't like Price ever had a time when he was tradable without paying a major part of his deal. It's my opinion we got the Dodger to may more than their fair share of his contract n this deal.

3) It's fine to have the opinion this was messed up, but it's just that: opinion.

 

You are making a lot of assumptions.

[Elktonnick]

1) Nobody is "convinced" of anything, but Verdugo has many years of team control. Judge, now, if you must.

2) Is wasn't like Price ever had a time when he was tradable without paying a major part of his deal. It's my opinion we got the Dodger to may more than their fair share of his contract n this deal.

3) It's fine to have the opinion this was messed up, but it's just that: opinion.

 

You are making a lot of assumptions.

 

I am not making any assumptions other than Henry became distracted by crooked Cora's cheating and this has clouded his judgment. The people who are making the assumptions are those who believe Bloom will be able to make full use of this budget flexibility to best advantage to compensate for the loss of the best player not named Trout. The people who are making assumptions are those who believe without any supporting evidence other than his pre injury performance that an amoral injured player with a now a history of back trouble and extraordinarily poor judgment, immaturity and a history of not running out balls in play can make a meaningful contribution to this club over the next five years. Character counts. And besides everything else there are serious questions about this kids character which can only be resolved by his performance over the next few months. Knowing this I believe it was negligence on Bloom's part to trade Betts for this kid as any part of the package.

[Elktonnick]

I will say one thing for Verdugo he did attempt to answer some of the questions about his character at a news conference today. At least that demonstrates he and the club are aware this is an issue. Time will tell. He is going to have a lot of pressure on him replacing Betts in Boston. I hope it has a thick skin. He will need it.

[moonslav59]

Massive assumptions.

[Behindenemylines]

Oh, you people. Sigh.

 

The writing is on the wall. Pillar was picked up to replace Mookie's defense in RF. Our outfield is now Benintendi, JBJ, Pillar.

 

Sox needed a fourth outfielder that bats from the right side and Pillar came on the cheap. When healthy Verdugo will get most of the ABs in RF. With 3 lefty staring Outfielders this move makes sense. Puig would have been more expensive and may have become a problem if not getting enough ABs. Pillar contract is for just one year.

[Elktonnick]

Massive assumptions.

 

Not at all. A massive assumption would be calling Cora the greatest Red Sox manager of all time. When in fact he may actually have been the biggest cheat.

[Elktonnick]

Sox needed a fourth outfielder that bats from the right side and Pillar came on the cheap. When healthy Verdugo will get most of the ABs in RF. With 3 lefty staring Outfielders this move makes sense. Puig would have been more expensive and may have become a problem if not getting enough ABs. Pillar contract is for just one year.

Pig may have become a problem because Puig is Puig who is a problem. Signing Pilar was a smart move and it shows just how confident Boston is in Verdugo. It s called hedging one's bets.

[Bellhorn04]

Saying he didn't is just dumber. And trading the best player in baseball not named Trout for a morally challenged immature player with a bad back and a history of not giving 100% effort and bad judgment is the dumbest of it all.

 

You don't seem to understand the concept of a salary dump.

[notin]

Not at all. A massive assumption would be calling Cora the greatest Red Sox manager of all time. When in fact he may actually have been the biggest cheat.

 

Or not

[Elktonnick]

You don't seem to understand the concept of a salary dump.

Of course I do I just don't think it was necessary. It isn't as if Henry needed the money to finance a Broadway musical.

[Bellhorn04]

Of course I do I just don't think it was necessary. It isn't as if Henry needed the money to finance a Broadway musical.

 

Yeah, it wasn't about a musical. It was all about the tax and other penalties.

[notin]

Of course I do I just don't think it was necessary. It isn't as if Henry needed the money to finance a Broadway musical.

 

He also doesn’t need to spend $240million on a baseball roster. Just be thankful he does, because if anyone else owned this team, we might have had a much less successful recent past

[Bellhorn04]

He also doesn’t need to spend $240million on a baseball roster. Just be thankful he does, because if anyone else owned this team, we might have had a much less successful recent past

 

No kidding. Henry has never not spent on the team.

[moonslav59]

Not at all. A massive assumption would be calling Cora the greatest Red Sox manager of all time. When in fact he may actually have been the biggest cheat.

 

The difference: I admit it's an opinion- my opinion (at the time). You act like everything you believe is fact.

[S5Dewey]

Of course I do I just don't think it was necessary. It isn't as if Henry needed the money to finance a Broadway musical.

 

Here's what I don't understand about your position: As little as we like to acknowledge it baseball is a business to John Henry and he wants to make both short-term and long-term money on it. He's making long term money on it because AFAIK the franchise is worth literally millions more now than it was when he bought it, but that's like any 'investment'. You don't see the profits until you cash it out.

 

In the meantime he has expenses to meet. Expenses like.. salaries, stadium upkeep & improvements, scouting, I'm sure a myriad of things that we can't imagine and a big expense may be the LT. If he can cut his LT obligations he can reduce his overhead allowing him to either invest more in the team or make more short-term money. And don't let it get lost in this that we don't even have knowledge of whether he's making or losing short-term money with the Boston Red Sox or what his profit margin is.

 

The bottom line is that JH is a businessman and baseball is entertainment. He can do what he wants with his money and he has no obligation to provide a WSC team to the fans every year. I'm thankful that he's chosen to have the Boston Red Sox as one of his businesses/"toys" and we get to reap the benefits of it. If it ever reaches the point where the cost of what we're spending exceeds the entertainment we're getting we're free every years to spend less on this entertainment.

 

Let me ask, how would you feel if JH sent a letter to your home saying, "Elk, I've heard that you're thinking of cancelling your NESN subscription and have decided to not attend games this year. I believe you can afford to be a Red Sox fan so who do you think you are to walk away from this obligation to me?"

 

Not very good, huh? That's what's being said to him by his critics.

[Elktonnick]

Here's what I don't understand about your position: As little as we like to acknowledge it baseball is a business to John Henry and he wants to make both short-term and long-term money on it. He's making long term money on it because AFAIK the franchise is worth literally millions more now than it was when he bought it, but that's like any 'investment'. You don't see the profits until you cash it out.

 

In the meantime he has expenses to meet. Expenses like.. salaries, stadium upkeep & improvements, scouting, I'm sure a myriad of things that we can't imagine and a big expense may be the LT. If he can cut his LT obligations he can reduce his overhead allowing him to either invest more in the team or make more short-term money. And don't let it get lost in this that we don't even have knowledge of whether he's making or losing short-term money with the Boston Red Sox or what his profit margin is.

 

The bottom line is that JH is a businessman and baseball is entertainment. He can do what he wants with his money and he has no obligation to provide a WSC team to the fans every year. I'm thankful that he's chosen to have the Boston Red Sox as one of his businesses/"toys" and we get to reap the benefits of it. If it ever reaches the point where the cost of what we're spending exceeds the entertainment we're getting we're free every years to spend less on this entertainment.

 

Let me ask, how would you feel if JH sent a letter to your home saying, "Elk, I've heard that you're thinking of cancelling your NESN subscription and have decided to not attend games this year. I believe you can afford to be a Red Sox fan so who do you think you are to walk away from this obligation to me?"

 

Not very good, huh? That's what's being said to him by his critics.

JH as a businessman can run or ruin his business any way he wants. I as a fan can react the same, any way I want. The problem and hypocrisy on the part of JH is don' t tell me that you are trying to do your best to put a competitive team on the field to justify higher ticket prices etc when you clearly are not. Many very successful businesses have failed when they started taking their customers for granted. I believe Henry is beginning to do exactly that, taking his fans for granted.

[Elktonnick]

The difference: I admit it's an opinion- my opinion (at the time). You act like everything you believe is fact.

 

No only that which is fact, like the fact that Cora is a cheat.

[a700hitter]

JH as a businessman can run or ruin his business any way he wants. I as a fan can react the same, any way I want. The problem and hypocrisy on the part of JH is don' t tell me that you are trying to do your best to put a competitive team on the field to justify higher ticket prices etc when you clearly are not. Many very successful businesses have failed when they started taking their customers for granted. I believe Henry is beginning to do exactly that, taking his fans for granted.

They raised ticket prices and in the midst of the season ticket renewal period, they rolled out the new GM armed with lies to tell the season ticket holders that they would make best efforts to keep Mookie long term and to put out a competitive team. After the renewal period passed, they blew up the team and forfeited 2020 preemptively.

[Elktonnick]

They raised ticket prices and in the midst of the season ticket renewal period, they rolled out the new GM armed with lies to tell the season ticket holders that they would make best efforts to keep Mookie long term and to put out a competitive team. After the renewal period passed, they blew up the team and forfeited 2020 preemptively.

Yup that pretty much tells us what an ethical approach to their fans the Red Sox have.

[moonslav59]

No only that which is fact, like the fact that Cora is a cheat.

 

That's far, far, far from all you have stated as fact.

[Elktonnick]

That's far, far, far from all you have stated as fact.

 

In your opinion.

[Bellhorn04]

Yup that pretty much tells us what an ethical approach to their fans the Red Sox have.

 

Since Henry bought the team they've had one of the highest payrolls every year.

 

And won 4 titles, more than any other team in the same time period.

 

How unethical!

[Elktonnick]

Since Henry bought the team they've had one of the highest payrolls every year.

 

And won 4 titles, more than any other team in the same time period.

 

How unethical!

 

Oh we judge ethics on how much money one spends. How enlightened! I guess it is true one can buy morality.

[Bellhorn04]

Oh we judge ethics on how much money one spends. How enlightened! I guess it is true one can buy morality.

 

I thought what you were bitching about was the team's attempts to be competitive.