Pay Mookie!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Here it is, the thread some posters may be loathe to even look at... but that I certainly hope some folks on a forum called talksox would relish:

 

Red Sox fans tonight finally have an inkling that Mookie Betts is considering remaining in a Boston uniform... if his price is met.

 

While driving my eight-year old son to karate, we listened to Lou Merloni on WEEI. A source said the Red Sox offered Betts $300 million for 10 years, but that he'll probably have to be traded because Mookie countered with $420 million for 12.

 

Without emotion, my son -- the diehard Red Sox fan -- said, "Then pay him 420."

 

Debate was not an option. Numbers are irrelevant to fans who connect with their favorite players. Especially since the most important part of this news isn't about digits, but that a counteroffer from the Betts' camp has opened a door for Mookie to stay in Boston for the rest of his career.

The Red Sox are a multi-billion dollar franchise owned by billionaires. They, as much as anyone in the industry, can afford the market value of one of the best players in the majors, and in franchise history (and certainly their best player since they've owned the club).

 

For those who fear the horrors of committing so much to one player and are certain such a contract will hamstring our team for years, maybe a decade... I give you the Philadelphia Phillies. You may recall, the city of brotherly Santa-booing paid stupid money for Bryce Harper -- and a year later they have thrown another 150 million at three more over-30 guys: a pitcher who's never won more than 12 games in a season in his career, a shortstop coming off TJ surgery and an outfielder who missed half of '19.

 

Merloni said Betts and Boston are $100 million apart. If the Red Sox reset by the end of 2020, they save that extra $100 million in luxury tax penalties alone. They can and should reset by trading a few high-priced players... but not their superstar Hall of Famer.

 

The Sox need to reset so they can keep Mookie Betts.

[Hitch]

Unless his settle number comes way down - trade him. A 12 year contract for a player who depends fairly heavily on his speed is insanity. Even more so when it's at anything near $35 a year. Trade him and move on. Edited January 29, 2020 by Hitch

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Unless his settle number comes way down - trade him. A 12 year contract for a player who depends fairly heavily on his speed is insanity. Even more so when it's at anything near $35 a year. Trade him and move on.

 

Forget what he's asking for a second -- and just compare Betts to a starting pitcher who only plays every five days... or to a third baseman who has averaged 3.9 WAR in seven seasons. (Betts has averaged 7 WAR through six).

 

Don't you think Mookie is worth more than Price and Sale, who will make $32 Mil and $30 Mil this year?

 

Isn't Betts worth at least as much as Rendon, who just signed for $35 AAV?

 

Mookie is asking for fair market value. He's earned it, he deserves it, and he will get it from someone...

[Bellhorn04]

The only thing I would say is that Mookie needs to realize he's not as good as Mike Trout. No shame in that, but it's a cold fact.

[notin]

Forget what he's asking for a second -- and just compare Betts to a starting pitcher who only plays every five days... or to a third baseman who has averaged 3.9 WAR in seven seasons. (Betts has averaged 7 WAR through six).

 

Don't you think Mookie is worth more than Price and Sale, who will make $32 Mil and $30 Mil this year?

 

Isn't Betts worth at least as much as Rendon, who just signed for $35 AAV?

 

Mookie is asking for fair market value. He's earned it, he deserves it, and he will get it from someone...

 

I don’t mind if Boston gives him fair market value. But he doesn’t want it now...

[S5Dewey]

Here it is, the thread some posters may be loathe to even look at... but that I certainly hope some folks on a forum called talksox would relish:

 

Red Sox fans tonight finally have an inkling that Mookie Betts is considering remaining in a Boston uniform... if his price is met.

 

While driving my eight-year old son to karate, we listened to Lou Merloni on WEEI. A source said the Red Sox offered Betts $300 million for 10 years, but that he'll probably have to be traded because Mookie countered with $420 million for 12.

 

Without emotion, my son -- the diehard Red Sox fan -- said, "Then pay him 420."

 

Debate was not an option. Numbers are irrelevant to fans who connect with their favorite players. Especially since the most important part of this news isn't about digits, but that a counteroffer from the Betts' camp has opened a door for Mookie to stay in Boston for the rest of his career.

The Red Sox are a multi-billion dollar franchise owned by billionaires. They, as much as anyone in the industry, can afford the market value of one of the best players in the majors, and in franchise history (and certainly their best player since they've owned the club).

 

For those who fear the horrors of committing so much to one player and are certain such a contract will hamstring our team for years, maybe a decade... I give you the Philadelphia Phillies. You may recall, the city of brotherly Santa-booing paid stupid money for Bryce Harper -- and a year later they have thrown another 150 million at three more over-30 guys: a pitcher who's never won more than 12 games in a season in his career, a shortstop coming off TJ surgery and an outfielder who missed half of '19.

 

Merloni said Betts and Boston are $100 million apart. If the Red Sox reset by the end of 2020, they save that extra $100 million in luxury tax penalties alone. They can and should reset by trading a few high-priced players... but not their superstar Hall of Famer.

 

The Sox need to reset so they can keep Mookie Betts.

You're right. The fact that Mookie has made a counter offer is a very good thing for those of us who want to keep him. However. this would be a good time to educate your son on how bargaining works.

 

While I don't have an personal insight on how much either party is willing to settle for at the same time I do have some experience in bargaining and here's what I'm confident of. 1) The Sox don't expect to get him signed for 10/$300. 2) Mookie doesn't expect to get 12/$420.

 

This is what happens in a bargaining process: The two parties start talking with their positions at numbers they don't expect to be there at the end. They start at the extremes and then bargain their way toward some middle ground. The fact that Mookie has made them an offer is good news because the Sox now know what Mookie's position is and that he's willing to talk. Our FO now now has to weigh the ramifications of paying him some amount between $300M & $420M and decide how much they can afford to pay him, pay others, and still make a profit.

 

This is progress and any progress is good. That doesn't guarantee that the two parties will come to an agreement but at least they're now talking with their positions outlined.

[Bellhorn04]

Being $120 million apart isn't really a great sign.

 

Someone should mention to Mookie that $120 million is what the much less greedy Bogey settled for!

[S5Dewey]

Being $120 million apart isn't really a great sign.

 

Someone should mention to Mookie that $120 million is what the much less greedy Bogey settled for!

 

Good point! Should be used in negotiations.

[notin]

Being $120 million apart isn't really a great sign.

 

Someone should mention to Mookie that $120 million is what the much less greedy Bogey settled for!

 

 

So you can hear his agent say “Exactly. You guys are shortchanging my client by a full All Star contract!”

[mvp 78]

Being $120 million apart isn't really a great sign.

 

Someone should mention to Mookie that $120 million is what the much less greedy Bogey settled for!

 

LOL at the greed line.

[Hitch]

Forget what he's asking for a second -- and just compare Betts to a starting pitcher who only plays every five days... or to a third baseman who has averaged 3.9 WAR in seven seasons. (Betts has averaged 7 WAR through six).

 

Don't you think Mookie is worth more than Price and Sale, who will make $32 Mil and $30 Mil this year?

 

Isn't Betts worth at least as much as Rendon, who just signed for $35 AAV?

 

Mookie is asking for fair market value. He's earned it, he deserves it, and he will get it from someone...

 

You can't forget what he's asking because it directly affects the amount of investment in the rest of the playing staff.

 

That said, I do think he's worth as much as those players, I don't think any of those players should have got the contract they did. More madness.

 

I agree he deserves a good pay day and if he is to get what he wants, I hope it is with somebody else who is happy to use so much of their payroll on one player because as much as I like the guy, it shouldn't be here.

[Swiharts Ghost]

I’m going to get shredded for this . Yasiel Puig should replace Mookie .I call him baby Manny guys got a world of talent still 29 and we have the ballpark and team to relaunch his career .Bloom should be in on Puig and Genette in my humble opinion .Maybe not everyone’s favorite player but this year we need a jolt of energy and regain confidence and swagger .Losing Mookie is going to be painful why not soften the blow with addition of Puig is my thought. Edited January 29, 2020 by Swiharts Ghost

[mvp 78]

I’m going to get shredded for this . Yasiel Puig should replace Mookie .I call him baby Manny guys got a world of talent still 29 and we have the ballpark and team to relaunch his career .Bloom should be in on Puig and Genette in my humble opinion .

 

One of us. One of us. One of us.

[Slasher9]

 

The Sox need to reset so they can keep Mookie Betts.

 

many of us have been saying this for a couple years.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It still makes sense that Mookie's camp would open negotiations asking for Trout money; his stats and accomplishments, while not as all-time lofty, are at least comparable in the realm of runner-up. And if Betts has another great year, and salaries continue to trend up, then market values will get closer when he finally does sign.

 

This is why it seems inevitable Boston is going to trade Mookie -- if they're not going to meet his price now, why would anyone think they're going to pay him more in a year?

[Slasher9]

You're right. The fact that Mookie has made a counter offer is a very good thing for those of us who want to keep him. However. this would be a good time to educate your son on how bargaining works.

 

While I don't have an personal insight on how much either party is willing to settle for at the same time I do have some experience in bargaining and here's what I'm confident of. 1) The Sox don't expect to get him signed for 10/$300. 2) Mookie doesn't expect to get 12/$420.

 

This is what happens in a bargaining process: The two parties start talking with their positions at numbers they don't expect to be there at the end. They start at the extremes and then bargain their way toward some middle ground. The fact that Mookie has made them an offer is good news because the Sox now know what Mookie's position is and that he's willing to talk. Our FO now now has to weigh the ramifications of paying him some amount between $300M & $420M and decide how much they can afford to pay him, pay others, and still make a profit.

 

This is progress and any progress is good. That doesn't guarantee that the two parties will come to an agreement but at least they're now talking with their positions outlined.

 

this post is gold.

[Bellhorn04]

LOL at the greed line.

 

Even at this level of mad money, there has to be a point that can be defined as greedy.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Love Mookie but no way I strap the team with that kind of salary and years .Hes been dead set on breaking the bank as he should just don’t break it here .

[mvp 78]

Even at this level of mad money, there has to be a point that can be defined as greedy.

 

Would he be the highest paid player? Nope. Would his contract seem to be market value for the type of player he is? Yup.

 

Mookie is the face of the franchise. A young, athletic, personable top 5 player in the game is what you need to build around. Letting him go is a bad decision IMO.

[mvp 78]

Love Mookie but no way I strap the team with that kind of salary and years .Hes been dead set on breaking the bank as he should just don’t break it here .

 

None of these contracts could break Henry's bank account.

 

Won't someone think of the billionaires?!?!?!?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The reality is that top players command longterm contracts. Harper 13 years, Trout 12, Machado 10 years, Cole 9 years, etc.

 

Teams that refuse to give great players the years won't get great players... or will continue to lose great players when they reach free agency... like small-market franchises.

[notin]

None of these contracts could break Henry's bank account.

 

Won't someone think of the billionaires?!?!?!?

 

It's not about saving Henry's money. That's a cheap copout.

 

Billionaire or not, he has clearly shown there are limits as to what he is going to spend on payroll. So if you give this contract to Mookie, will you be able to surround him with a competitive team for the life of that deal? The first couple seasons should not be a problem, but what happens when you have a declining 35yo RF making $38-40mill and no good young talent coming up?

 

Everyone says they will be OK with the bad years as long as the team wins a title. But that changes when the bad years actually get here. I didn't see a single person in 2014 and 2015 justifying those awful years with even one "Hey, at least we won it all in 2013."

[notin]

The reality is that top players command longterm contracts. Harper 13 years, Trout 12, Machado 10 years, Cole 9 years, etc.

 

Teams that refuse to give great players the years won't get great players... or will continue to lose great players when they reach free agency... like small-market franchises.

 

So the Dodgers are a small market franchise?

[mvp 78]

According to fangraphs, he's already been worth about $300M in the previous 6 years. It's not far fetched to think he can replicate that for the next 6. Then you just have to decide what he'll be worth for the remaining 4-6 years. His glove will always play. He takes care of himself. Even if you factor that his production shrinks to a 1/3 over the final half of the contract (age 34 - 40), he'd be worth about $100M for 6 years. That's basically $400M for 12 years in fangraphs value.

 

You're earning a lot of value on the contract in the first half. You can't expect to hose the player for the last half. He's already been hosed enough. Through 2020, he'll only be paid $60M for his whole career. According to fangraphs, he should be worth almost $350M through 2020. Why does he have to eat that loss of approx $250M in excess value he's provided to the Sox? Why is it that only the owners can get ahead?

 

Mookie is the face of the franchise. He's a future HOF. You pay him and build around him.

[mvp 78]

It's not about saving Henry's money. That's a cheap copout.

 

Billionaire or not, he has clearly shown there are limits as to what he is going to spend on payroll. So if you give this contract to Mookie, will you be able to surround him with a competitive team for the life of that deal? The first couple seasons should not be a problem, but what happens when you have a declining 35yo RF making $38-40mill and no good young talent coming up?

 

Everyone says they will be OK with the bad years as long as the team wins a title. But that changes when the bad years actually get here. I didn't see a single person in 2014 and 2015 justifying those awful years with even one "Hey, at least we won it all in 2013."

 

Limits? They've year in and year out been towards the top of payroll spending?

[notin]

Limits? They've year in and year out been towards the top of payroll spending?

 

Henry has been beyond generous and clearly wants to field the best team possible. But that doesn't mean he wants has no limits to what he spends. Or did the Sox pass on Gerrit Cole because they figured Eovaldi was good enough?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So the Dodgers are a small market franchise?

 

Not even close; what Dodger greats are they losing? They overpaid to extend Kershaw.

[notin]

Not even close; what Dodger greats are they losing? They overpaid to extend Kershaw.

 

Your post was about the years teams were willing to guarantee. The longest contracts currently on the Dodgers roster are the 4 year deals given to AJ Pollock and Justin Turner. Kershaw's current deal is a 3 year contract...

[mvp 78]

Henry has been beyond generous and clearly wants to field the best team possible. But that doesn't mean he wants has no limits to what he spends. Or did the Sox pass on Gerrit Cole because they figured Eovaldi was good enough?

 

If they are willing to pay Eovaldi and Price the amounts they are paying, they should be willing to pay Mookie (a guy who offers so much more to the franchise) a metric f*** ton more than that. He's worth the money according to Fangraphs.

[mvp 78]

Henry has been beyond generous and clearly wants to field the best team possible. But that doesn't mean he wants has no limits to what he spends. Or did the Sox pass on Gerrit Cole because they figured Eovaldi was good enough?

 

Also, if he was beyond generous, why f*** around with Lester?