JDM says absolutely no cheating and team will be cleared

[Elktonnick]

whats your stance on black players, catchers equipment, balls bouncing over the fence only being a double, padded fences, light towers, relief pitchers, bp machines, first baseman mitt, jersey numbers above 9, airplane travel, 7th inning stretch god bless america singing, divisions, wild card?

Another nonsensical question. Because an individual likes tradition doesn't mean nor imply that they would oppose any or all progress or change. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

[jung]

That is nonsense. Because I like tradition has nothing to do about whether I condone cheating.

 

IMO, at least as it relates to the video rooms its the perceived benefit of replay which as implemented by MLB is an abject failure. That there are these other issues with the video rooms are just more reason to get real time in game video sponsored by MLB out of the hands of the teams.

 

It would not be rocket science to isolate any proprietary cameras from real time in game feeds to teams whether they own the camera systems or not. Eliminate the MLB feeds to the teams and bury teams under a mountain of hurt if they are caught using in game real time feeds from proprietary camera systems. In addition, come up with something better than visual or audible signs between battery mates.

Edited January 21, 2020 by jung

[moonslav59]

Likely indeed though not very encouraging certainly not based on that Fenway two step press conference.

 

Also likely though not very encouraging.

 

The press conference was show.

 

They made the right choice. Waiting would have been worse. Way worse.

 

Cora staying would have been more of a circus than the season already rates to be.

 

[Sox75]

If Cora was clean on the Houston front, he would still be here!

 

imo

 

Moon is correct. Yes! The PC was all theater, but Cora had to go.

 

MAYBE, just maybe....

 

Cora goes down nobly with the Houston ship, & spares the Sox any big loss?

 

I guess we'll see?

 

He will be missed!

 

& yes. For that level of long term in-game tv monitoring cheating, HAS TO BE dealt with pretty harshly!

 

THIS IS SO FAR ABOVE possibly taking a little air out of a football, that all the players were using.

 

THIS makes deflategate look like child's play!

 

I HOPE TO HELL the Sox are clean!

Edited January 21, 2020 by Sox75

[jung]

If Cora was clean on the Houston front, he would still be here!

 

imo

 

Moon is correct. Yes! The PC was all theater, but Cora had to go.

 

MAYBE, just maybe....

 

Cora goes down nobly with the Houston ship, & spares the Sox any big loss?

 

I guess we'll see?

 

He will be missed!

 

& yes. For that level of long term in-game tv monitoring cheating, HAS TO BE dealt with pretty harshly!

 

THIS IS SO FAR ABOVE possibly taking a little air out of a football, that all the players were using.

 

THIS makes deflategate look like child's play!

 

I HOPE TO HELL the Sox are clean!

 

If MLB conducts actual investigations as opposed to shaping and tailoring campaigns I suspect they would discover upon sticking their heads up out of the sand that there are a number of teams that are not clean.

[Slasher9]

Another nonsensical question. Because an individual likes tradition doesn't mean nor imply that they would oppose any or all progress or change. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

 

while i find your response fair, your hesitancy to remove catcher signs from the game based on "tradition" made me wonder what your thoughts are on some other baseball "traditions" that have been changed over the years. based on your reply i am guessing you are OK with all those other changes but are now taking a stand on catcher signs?

[Bellhorn04]

Cora says he hasn't even been contacted yet about the Sox investigation.

[Slasher9]

Cora says he hasn't even been contacted yet about the Sox investigation.

 

sheesh. does that even make sense?

[Slasher9]

I think signs will always be given in some form or other even if they permit helmet. Just look at the NFL.

 

Yeah, i've been advocating earpieces from day 1. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[mvp 78]

Parting ways with Cora was 100% the right thing to do.

 

That's based on what we know. I'm sure Sox management knows more than us.

 

At the very least, Cora was getting a year long suspension (most likely 2+) just for the Astros stuff. Even if nothing comes from the Sox allegations, the Red Sox would still be without a manager. It makes a ton of sense that needed to part ways. I wonder if they had conversations about this with Cora all offseason.

[mvp 78]

sheesh. does that even make sense?

 

1. MLB is just dragging its feet (unlikely)

2. MLB is gathering all the info it can find prior to meeting with Cora (most likely especially now that Cora is out of work)

3. MLB is struggling to find any truth to the cheating rumors (somewhat likely)

[moonslav59]

At the very least, Cora was getting a year long suspension (most likely 2+) just for the Astros stuff. Even if nothing comes from the Sox allegations, the Red Sox would still be without a manager. It makes a ton of sense that needed to part ways. I wonder if they had conversations about this with Cora all offseason.

 

Exactly, and they didn't need to wait for MLB to suspend Cora. It's obvious. Besides, this isn't a court of law. Cora needed to go, now. Look how hard it is getting a decent interim manager. Imagine waiting a few more weeks.

[Elktonnick]

1. MLB is just dragging its feet (unlikely)

2. MLB is gathering all the info it can find prior to meeting with Cora (most likely especially now that Cora is out of work)

3. MLB is struggling to find any truth to the cheating rumors (somewhat likely)

 

Cora will literally be the last to be interviewed. It is called getting ones ducks in a row.

[mvp 78]

Cora will literally be the last to be interviewed. It is called getting ones ducks in a row.

 

It's why I said it was the most likely reason.

[Slasher9]

1. MLB is just dragging its feet (unlikely)

2. MLB is gathering all the info it can find prior to meeting with Cora (most likely especially now that Cora is out of work)

3. MLB is struggling to find any truth to the cheating rumors (somewhat likely)

 

i like this. agreed.

[jung]

Exactly, and they didn't need to wait for MLB to suspend Cora. It's obvious. Besides, this isn't a court of law. Cora needed to go, now. Look how hard it is getting a decent interim manager. Imagine waiting a few more weeks.

 

Quite likely. The point is the Sox did not need to muddy the water with all that Press Conference crap. On the one hand posters are contending that it was Press Conference crap and then buying the arguments wielded in the Press Conference as if they made a hill of beans of sense. The arguments presented in that Press Conference went directly to the Sox "logic" for parting ways with Cora. Either they know what Cora's penalty will be for Houston or they don't. Suppose its a year suspension and we ultimately discover that the Houston Bench Coach is just being thrown under the bus, a convenient scapegoat for players and possibly Hinch and possibly Management personnel above Hinch. If its a year suspension you likely want an interim coach.

 

Now you could make the case that even if Cora is being made the scapegoat he is tainted enough to make it impossible for him to go forward were it not for what we have to acknowledge as likely. The Sox players likely to a man would want Cora back and would play for him.

 

That the Sox contend that they asked their Field Manager and a member of their Management team NOTHING regarding the 2018 Sox before parting company with him makes the least sense of all yet that is in fact what Sox Management contended in that Press Conference. I still don't know the sense to having any Press Conference at all other than in the name of tailoring the narrative. Just announce you have parted company.....PERIOD. Has all of that tailoring spared Sox Management any media pressure for answers or if anything has it not exacerbated their issue with Media on this topic? I would say, exacerbated as it has finally occurred to Media that the Press Conference made no sense.

 

Now if in fact Sox Management actually knows what was going on in its own organization whether from Cora or not and its not pretty THEN its a done deal. Cora has to be gone regardless of what the Sox players think of him and on balance how good a field general (in 21st century terms) he might be.

Edited January 21, 2020 by jung

[jung]

As to my earlier contention about this whole issue of in game, real time use of video and electronics in order to cheat being more widespread than a couple of teams and a few bad apples, I would offer the following.

 

Do we think that if any other set of teams had made it to the post season that MLB would NOT have inserted MLB personnel into those video rooms? I would say that it would not have mattered. Regardless of which teams showed up for the 2018 and 2019 post season, MLB would have inserted MLB personnel into those video rooms and if that is not true, MLB is truly lost in its own blizzard of PR nonsense.

Edited January 21, 2020 by jung

[moonslav59]

Quite likely. The point is the Sox did not need to muddy the water with all that Press Conference crap. On the one hand posters are contending that it was Press Conference crap and then buying the arguments wielded in the Press Conference as if they made a hill of beans of sense. The arguments presented in that Press Conference went directly to the Sox "logic" for parting ways with Cora. Either they know what Cora's penalty will be for Houston or they don't. Suppose its a year suspension and we ultimately discover that the Houston Bench Coach is just being thrown under the bus, a convenient scapegoat for players and possibly Hinch and possibly Management personnel above Hinch. If its a year suspension you likely want an interim coach.

 

Now you could make the case that even if Cora is being made the scapegoat he is tainted enough to make it impossible for him to go forward were it not for what we have to acknowledge as likely. The Sox players likely to a man would want Cora back and would play for him.

 

That the Sox contend that they asked their Field Manager and a member of their Management team NOTHING regarding the 2018 Sox before parting company with him makes the least sense of all yet that is in fact what Sox Management contended in that Press Conference. I still don't know the sense to having any Press Conference at all other than in the name of tailoring the narrative. Just announce you have parted company.....PERIOD. Has all of that tailoring spared Sox Management any media pressure for answers or if anything has it not exacerbated their issue with Media on this topic? I would say, exacerbated as it has finally occurred to Media that the Press Conference made no sense.

 

Now if in fact Sox Management actually knows what was going on in its own organization whether from Cora or not and its not pretty THEN its a done deal. Cora has to be gone regardless of what the Sox players think of him and on balance how good a field general (in 21st century terms) he might be.

 

I seriously doubt Cora is innocent, in fact I'm certain he was part of the Houston cheating scheme. It doesn't matter if he was or was not the "ringleader." He was part of the cheating and should be no part of the 2020 Sox. The press conference doesn't matter, to me. It was for the casual fan.

 

They may be exaggerating Cora's role in the cheating, but he was certainly a part of it in a coaching capacity. He cheated as a coach, and he cannot manage us in 2020.

 

I'm not seeing any reason to debate this. It's a slam dunk decision with NO qualifiers. No 'what ifs?"

 

We are not going to find out that Cora was thrown under the bus and was totally innocent. That's a pipe dream.

[jung]

I seriously doubt Cora is innocent, in fact I'm certain he was part of the Houston cheating scheme. It doesn't matter if he was or was not the "ringleader." He was part of the cheating and should be no part of the 2020 Sox. The press conference doesn't matter, to me. It was for the casual fan.

 

They may be exaggerating Cora's role in the cheating, but he was certainly a part of it in a coaching capacity. He cheated as a coach, and he cannot manage us in 2020.

 

I'm not seeing any reason to debate this. It's a slam dunk decision with NO qualifiers. No 'what ifs?"

 

We are not going to find out that Cora was thrown under the bus and was totally innocent. That's a pipe dream.

 

Calling Bench Coach Cora the "architect", not naming players other than retired player Beltran while claiming that players were the driving force behind the cheating in Houston and shaping a narrative that Hinch WAS in effect the bystander in all of this IS throwing Cora under bus.

 

Was Cora the Manager in Houston and Hinch the Bench Coach or was it the other way round? Are we saying that Hinch could not have stopped that dead in its tracks before it ever got off the ground if he wanted to?

 

IMO, the Houston Report stinks to high heaven and I am doubtful about the integrity of the Boston Report once we see it just based on the odor coming off the Houston Report.

Edited January 21, 2020 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Calling Bench Coach Cora the "architect", not naming players other than retired player Beltran while claiming that players were the driving force behind the cheating in Houston and shaping a narrative that Hinch WAS in effect the bystander in all of this IS throwing Cora under bus.

 

But it may well be the truth.

[jung]

But it may well be the truth.

 

So Cora gets to set up a closed proprietary camera system with a direct feed to the dugout and a signaling system to the batter's box without the expressed or tacit authority of the actual Manager? Since when!

[notin]

So Cora gets to set up a closed proprietary camera system with a direct feed to the dugout and a signaling system to the batter's box without the expressed or tacit authority of the actual Manager? Since when!

 

Since he realized the whole thing could be done for $500 and a trip to Best Buy?

 

Despite attempts to make this scheme look elaborate and advanced, they were banging a garbage can. If Crane was involved, don’t you think he’d say “What? Spend some real money and get an actual messaging system.”

[Slasher9]

Since he realized the whole thing could be done for $500 and a trip to Best Buy?

 

Despite attempts to make this scheme look elaborate and advanced, they were banging a garbage can. If Crane was involved, don’t you think he’d say “What? Spend some real money and get an actual messaging system.”

 

yes, thats when they went to the vibrating band aids instead of garbage can.

[notin]

yes, thats when they went to the vibrating band aids instead of garbage can.

 

No that idea came from Beltran’s niece, who was left on the group text after Carlos went to NY...

[Bellhorn04]

So Cora gets to set up a closed proprietary camera system with a direct feed to the dugout and a signaling system to the batter's box without the expressed or tacit authority of the actual Manager? Since when!

 

Hinch knew about it but did nothing to stop it. That's the story, anyway. He got a one year ban regardless, right?

[jung]

Since he realized the whole thing could be done for $500 and a trip to Best Buy?

 

Despite attempts to make this scheme look elaborate and advanced, they were banging a garbage can. If Crane was involved, don’t you think he’d say “What? Spend some real money and get an actual messaging system.”

 

Oh NO, if I were Crane would have not said a damned thing to anybody. For Upper Management and Ownership the issue if there is one is "knowledge of" not being the driving force behind.

 

I am not saying that Cora is innocent in Houston. I am saying that the Houston Report simply makes no sense. It represents an effort to shape a narrative, not an actual investigation. There is so much in the Houston Report that offers an MLB opinion without any supportive material. MLB has apparently not even discussed Houston with Cora while naming him as the architect.

The Houston Report:

- claims the players were the driving force behind the cheating yet the only player named is the retired Beltran. While it does not make sense to suspend players given the PA, not naming them also makes no sense at all.

- simply categorizes "low level front office personnel" as also involved without naming them. I think one other front office guy besides Luhnow has actually been named. However both he and Luhnow are presented as somehow on the periphery.

- that Cora as Bench Coach could install a closed proprietary camera system with a feed to the dugout and apparently not one but two signaling systems to players, trash can bashing and a signaling system hidden under uniforms all without the expressed or tacit authority of Hinch, the actual Manager. Also makes no sense.

 

That was not an investigation. That was a compilation of MLB opinions based in part on Fier and not much else plus nebulous accusations . It was an effort to offer up a tailored narrative and I seriously doubt the Boston Report will be much more than that.

 

Apparently to this date MLB has not talked to anybody in Boston about anything. So who or what are they investigating here or are we simply going to get another effort to shape a narrative in Boston. It appears that is what we got in Houston.

[Slasher9]

I think Cora not screaming from high heavens about this tells me all i need to know about his involvement.

[jad]

I think Cora not screaming from high heavens about this tells me all i need to know about his involvement.

 

Really? In my experience, the only time an accused (i.e., any of us) screams in high moral indignation is when they know they are guilty.

[Slasher9]

Really?

 

yes. WTF's silence is deafening.

[mvp 78]

Really? In my experience, the only time an accused (i.e., any of us) screams in high moral indignation is when they know they are guilty.

 

^^^

 

Raphael Palmeiro finger wag