GooD GMs vs Bad GMs

[bosoxmal]

Red Sox payroll is very close to 4X the Rays payroll!

 

I would love to see us sweep this series, but if they don't and the Rays make the playoffs, I'll at least have someone to root for.and a reason to watch the damn thing,

[Bellhorn04]

For a long time the Rays have gotten more bang for their buck than we have.

 

On the other hand, we have the most titles of any team this century. I'll still take that.

[moonslav59]

The Rays have changed GMs and coaches through these years. What has been the common denominator?

[mvp 78]

The Rays have changed GMs and coaches through these years. What has been the common denominator?

 

Cowbells and empty seats

[bosoxmal]

The Rays have changed GMs and coaches through these years. What has been the common denominator?

I don't know. The youngsters they bring up fro, AAA are on a par with our guys and the Yankees etc. Howthey keep them (Longoria, etc) I don't know.

[moonslav59]

I don't know. The youngsters they bring up fro, AAA are on a par with our guys and the Yankees etc. Howthey keep them (Longoria, etc) I don't know.

 

Their best area seems to be two-fold:

 

1) They trade away very good talent just before they decline.

 

2) They pick up journeymen, scrubs or decent players via trade or free agency who then go on to have a career year or two.

 

They don't seem to draft all that well, but do find pitchers way better than we do.

 

My question was more about who are the people behind this or what is their system that we can copy or hire?

[Larry Cook]

I see a couple of things we could emulate:

 

1.) in developing pitchers, they do not pigeon hole their pitchers to throwing just the fastball, curveball and change up.

 

2.) they work opposite of us. They work overtime to develop pitchers and squire bats outside the organization.

[notin]

The Rays have changed GMs and coaches through these years. What has been the common denominator?

 

A s***** stadium in the middle of nowhere?

[notin]

I see a couple of things we could emulate:

 

1.) in developing pitchers, they do not pigeon hole their pitchers to throwing just the fastball, curveball and change up.

 

2.) they work opposite of us. They work overtime to develop pitchers and squire bats outside the organization.

 

The Rays struggle to develop pitchers when they’re drafting at the end of the first round just like the Sox.

 

But the Rays can afford to just plain suck every now and then and get a few draft picks...

[Elktonnick]

The Rays struggle to develop pitchers when they’re drafting at the end of the first round just like the Sox.

 

But the Rays can afford to just plain suck every now and then and get a few draft picks...

 

Comparing the Rays to the Red Sox is really apples to oranges.

[notin]

Comparing the Rays to the Red Sox is really apples to oranges.

 

Then why do some people want to emulate them?

 

My point is, they draft better because they have more bad seasons leading to good picks. And it’s not just the first round. A high second round pick is equal to a late first rounder, where the Sox typically are.

 

The problem is, fans want the Rays’ farm system without going through the bad seasons. That isn’t going to happen...

[Elktonnick]

Then why do some people want to emulate them?

 

My point is, they draft better because they have more bad seasons leading to good picks. And it’s not just the first round. A high second round pick is equal to a late first rounder, where the Sox typically are.

 

The problem is, fans want the Rays’ farm system without going through the bad seasons. That isn’t going to happen...

 

Correct you are

[dgalehouse]

The Rays deserve credit for what they have accomplished under the circumstances . The G.M.s have done a good job and they have had managers who have gotten the most out of the players they had . But the bottom line is they have won only one A.L. pennant and no World Series in their existence.

[notin]

The Rays deserve credit for what they have accomplished under the circumstances . The G.M.s have done a good job and they have had managers who have gotten the most out of the players they had . But the bottom line is they have won only one A.L. pennant and no World Series in their existence.

 

The Red Sox once went 86 years with only 4 pennants and no World Series titles...

[harmony]

Then why do some people want to emulate them?

 

My point is, they draft better because they have more bad seasons leading to good picks. And it’s not just the first round. A high second round pick is equal to a late first rounder, where the Sox typically are.

 

The problem is, fans want the Rays’ farm system without going through the bad seasons. That isn’t going to happen...

The Los Angeles Dodgers have a highly ranked farm system despite winning seven straight National League West titles with at least 91 wins each season:

 

MLB farm system rankings 2019

WWW.MLB.COM

---

There's a reason that every time a new general manager gets hired, he preaches the goal of building a strong farm system. Developing homegrown talent is the most efficient way of constructing a winning big league club, by graduating youngsters to the Majors or using them in trades for more

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/LAD/

[notin]

The Los Angeles Dodgers have a highly ranked farm system despite winning seven straight National League West titles with at least 91 wins each season:

 

MLB farm system rankings 2019

WWW.MLB.COM

---

There's a reason that every time a new general manager gets hired, he preaches the goal of building a strong farm system. Developing homegrown talent is the most efficient way of constructing a winning big league club, by graduating youngsters to the Majors or using them in trades for more

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/LAD/

 

Point?

[moonslav59]

The Rays struggle to develop pitchers when they’re drafting at the end of the first round just like the Sox.

 

But the Rays can afford to just plain suck every now and then and get a few draft picks...

 

They haven't had a real high draft in a while. Like I said, they seem to do best with getting average Joes having career years with them. The Astros are also good at finding a way to get players to do better when on their team.

[Elktonnick]

They haven't had a real high draft in a while. Like I said, they seem to do best with getting average Joes having career years with them. The Astros are also good at finding a way to get players to do better when on their team.

 

One advantage the Rays have is there is no pressure and no expectations from their small fan base. They can afford to experiment with players, tactics, and strategies. We only hear of their successes not their failures. BTW I can not stress what a dump their ballpark is. Their ball park food is horrible. There isn't a decent hotel or restaurant anywhere near the place. I am surprised they draw as many fans as they do.

[bosoxmal]

A s***** stadium in the middle of nowhere?

 

Middle of nowhere?

[moonslav59]

Here's something on Theo...

 

MLBTR

 

By Dylan A. Chase | September 21, 2019 at 6:20pm CDT

 

With recently returned Cubs closer Craig Kimbrel having issued another ninth-inning meltdown today–against the NL Central-leading Cardinals, no less–Chicago fans may feel disinclined to read today’s piece from Chicago Sun-Times scribe Gordon Wittenmeyer, which doesn’t pull any punches in evaluating the job done by team president Theo Epstein and his staff this year. In Wittenmeyer’s view, blame for the Cubs 2019 underachievement should be directed at ownership and Epstein’s front office–not underperforming players or maligned manager Joe Maddon. Wittenmeyer writes: “What’s clear is that the onus of this season’s shortcomings falls on the shoulders of Theo Epstein’s front office for free agency and player development failings and Ricketts ownership for failure to exercise the market advantage of franchise-record revenues to increase spending during a seize-the-moment competitive window.”

 

Wittenmeyer leaves little earth unscorched in this column, citing the club’s inability to develop impact pitching, unwillingness to spend beyond ownership-established thresholds, and in-house pressure regarding the need for early-season “urgency” as factors that dragged down this year’s Cubbies.

[notin]

So Wittemeyer holds it against Epstein that Theo didn’t spend more than he was allowed to?

 

I want to be there when Wittemeyer turns in his next expense report to his boss...

[oldtimer]

Here's something on Theo...

 

MLBTR

 

By Dylan A. Chase | September 21, 2019 at 6:20pm CDT

 

With recently returned Cubs closer Craig Kimbrel having issued another ninth-inning meltdown today–against the NL Central-leading Cardinals, no less–Chicago fans may feel disinclined to read today’s piece from Chicago Sun-Times scribe Gordon Wittenmeyer, which doesn’t pull any punches in evaluating the job done by team president Theo Epstein and his staff this year. In Wittenmeyer’s view, blame for the Cubs 2019 underachievement should be directed at ownership and Epstein’s front office–not underperforming players or maligned manager Joe Maddon. Wittenmeyer writes: “What’s clear is that the onus of this season’s shortcomings falls on the shoulders of Theo Epstein’s front office for free agency and player development failings and Ricketts ownership for failure to exercise the market advantage of franchise-record revenues to increase spending during a seize-the-moment competitive window.”

 

Wittenmeyer leaves little earth unscorched in this column, citing the club’s inability to develop impact pitching, unwillingness to spend beyond ownership-established thresholds, and in-house pressure regarding the need for early-season “urgency” as factors that dragged down this year’s Cubbies.

 

Maybe we should go slow on wishing for him to return. We need someone with better judgment than to take Kimbrel on for big bucks.

[oldtimer]

I like this guys background and accomplishments. He would be a viable choice for GM although there no doubt are others with very good backgrounds.

 

Matthew Arnold

Senior Vice President and Assistant General Manager

 

Matt Arnold, 40, begins his fourth season with the Brewers after being named vice president and assistant general manager on October 14, 2015.

 

Arnold assists President of Baseball Operations and General Manager David Stearns with day-to-day baseball processes and provides functional oversight of all departments within baseball operations. His areas of focus include Major League operations, roster construction, financial planning, staffing and personnel development, contract negotiations and player personnel decisions. Arnold also provides supervision within player development, medical operations, integrative sports performance, scouting and analytics.

 

Prior to joining the Brewers, Arnold served as director of player personnel with the Tampa Bay Rays. During his time with the Rays (2007-15), Arnold assisted Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations Andrew Friedman and President of Baseball Operations Matt Silverman with player acquisitions, contract negotiations and player evaluations at all levels. His responsibilities also included strategic planning, foreign and domestic special assignments, and coordinating advance scouting for the postseason. Additionally, he worked to develop the process of integrating science, biomechanics and human movement analysis within all levels of baseball operations.

 

Arnold joined the Rays following the 2006 season as a professional scout and was promoted to director of professional scouting in November 2009. In that role, he supervised the team's Major League and pro scouting departments. He was promoted to his most recent position with the Rays in June 2015.

 

During his tenure in Tampa Bay, the Rays won over 90 games in five out of six seasons between 2008 and 2013, and qualified for the postseason four times (2008, 2010, 2011 and 2013), including the franchise's first World Series appearance in 2008.

 

Arnold, who has 18 seasons of professional baseball experience, also worked in the baseball operations departments of the Los Angeles Dodgers (2000), Texas Rangers (2002) and Cincinnati Reds (2003-06).

 

While with the Reds, Arnold served as assistant director of professional scouting with his duties including player analysis, financial planning and arbitration, as well as involvement in advance, amateur and professional scouting.

 

Originally from California, Arnold attended the University of California-Santa Barbara, where he earned a degree in economics and merited academic honors, including Sport Management Student of the Year. While there, he met his wife, Jodi. The couple has a daughter, Julianne, and a son, Tyler.

[dgalehouse]

No matter how successful you have been , no matter how well you have done your job , there is always somebody eagerly waiting to pounce on you for any stumble . And regrettably , most of these bums have an audience and a keyboard .

[moonslav59]

So Wittemeyer holds it against Epstein that Theo didn’t spend more than he was allowed to?

 

I want to be there when Wittemeyer turns in his next expense report to his boss...

 

I know. I was thinking teh same thing. Had he concentrated on his choiceds of spending, he might have had a better point.

[moonslav59]

No matter how successful you have been , no matter how well you have done your job , there is always somebody eagerly waiting to pounce on you for any stumble . And regrettably , most of these bums have an audience and a keyboard .

 

Yes, like that poster who pounced on Betts for wanting the most he can get. You are so right!

[dgalehouse]

Yes, like that poster who pounced on Betts for wanting the most he can get. You are so right!

 

Well , I don't know who that was . It wasn't me . And I'm not sure what it had to do with Theo . Am I missing something here ?

[Kimmi]

Yes, like that poster who pounced on Betts for wanting the most he can get. You are so right!

 

That was me, and I stand by my opinion.

[oldtimer]

It's now over a month since DD's contract was not renewed and yet no new GM has been named. That indicates to me that Ownership was unhappy with where DD had put us rather than a statement of where we want to go and who should lead us in that direction.

[moonslav59]

It's now over a month since DD's contract was not renewed and yet no new GM has been named. That indicates to me that Ownership was unhappy with where DD had put us rather than a statement of where we want to go and who should lead us in that direction.

 

Not that it's a bad thing.

 

My guess is it's down to a short list, now. I'm fairly confident we'll make a good choice.

 

(I would not be happy with a GM by committee choice.)