Red Sox have fired GM Dave Dombrowski

[notin]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-cunningham-alabama-20160831-snap-story.html

 

Hero killer

[sk7326]

I agree. A rebuild would be more costly than simply going for it.

 

I believe Martinez' option is a player option, so the only decision the Sox have is, if he exercises it, do they decide to trade him?

 

I think his option choice will be deeply connected to the franchise direction and the Sox will be open with him. (if they traded him after he opted in without his consent, that is the sort of thing which does not make you friends with agents) While I don't think a 5 year deal is in his future - he is still a really good hitter and will have a market. That said, I could see JD deciding that he won't do better than opting in. I think it's really a coin flip.

 

Another option might be for Martinez to opt out for a longer deal with a lower AAV - where he gets more money over the life of the deal and the Red Sox can lower their payroll e.g. opting out of 3/62 in exchange for a 5/85 or something.

[dgalehouse]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/usc/la-sp-usc-cunningham-alabama-20160831-snap-story.html

 

The Cooler.

[notin]

I think his option choice will be deeply connected to the franchise direction and the Sox will be open with him. (if they traded him after he opted in without his consent, that is the sort of thing which does not make you friends with agents) While I don't think a 5 year deal is in his future - he is still a really good hitter and will have a market. That said, I could see JD deciding that he won't do better than opting in. I think it's really a coin flip.

 

Another option might be for Martinez to opt out for a longer deal with a lower AAV - where he gets more money over the life of the deal and the Red Sox can lower their payroll e.g. opting out of 3/62 in exchange for a 5/85 or something.

 

He struiggled to get anything close to that last time, didn't he? and he was coming off a career year and 2 years younger.

 

Martinez makes $23mill next season, after which he has another opt out opportunity, or he can take his last 2 years at $19mill. I think he opts out after 2020, since he can probably do better than 2/$38mill as a free agent...

[S5Dewey]

I did expect them to be worse. Somewhere on this board, I repeatedly cited a former colleague of mine who used to say "If you stand still, you're road kill."

 

"Worse" covers a lot of ground. I expected them to be "worse" too, winning ~95 -100 games. But I didn't expect a 23 game swing. Did you? If they put this same team on the field next year a/k/a 'standing pat' would you expect them to win 62 next year?

[cp176]

Yawkey was racist, but he was hardly alone. Doesn't excuse it, but no reason to isolate him either.

 

There is a reason MLB is the only sport that makes a big deal out of breaking the color barrier. The NFL and NBA also had first black players at some point, but does anyone know who they are without first checking on Google?

 

If you were born when I was born, grew up where I grew up, it would likely have been possible to paint a picture of 90 to 95% of the people living in our area as racist. looking back in history and simply making a statement that anyone was a racist while you look at life through your own window today is a slippery slope as far as i'm concerned.

[cp176]

it did take them an extra 20 years to incorporate a black player after jackie robinson broke the color barrier so maybe sometime in the 22nd century the Red Sox will feel comfortable hiring a female GM.....

 

i really hope that the best and most talented person available gets this job regardless of - gender - sexual preferences - religious beliefs - skin color - cultural background - language spoken - etc. etc.

[Bellhorn04]

Your evidence includes a team that made a fairly substantial mid-season trade and didn't stay the course of status quo. Jason Bay? I think that outranks the Andrew Cashner acquisition. (But we can call the mid-season acquisition of Paul Byrd as being equal to Cashner.)

 

But Manny for Bay was basically a lateral move, prompted by Manny being a malcontent, not a baseball need to upgrade.

[notin]

But Manny for Bay was basically a lateral move, prompted by Manny being a malcontent, not a baseball need to upgrade.

 

It was an upgrade in that Bay was not a disruptive force who took games off and created a media firestorm, if you look at it that way.

 

Nevertheless, they did not stay standing still all year...

[notin]

If you were born when I was born, grew up where I grew up, it would likely have been possible to paint a picture of 90 to 95% of the people living in our area as racist. looking back in history and simply making a statement that anyone was a racist while you look at life through your own window today is a slippery slope as far as i'm concerned.

 

This is not a matter of a cultural shift of today vs yesterday.

 

MLB is the only sport that openly and proudly celebrates breaking the color barrier, which they also openly and proudly enforced for decades. The NBA and the NFL allowed black athletes at some point, but just did it and moved on. That's not about yesterday vs today. Those are all events that happened in the same timeframe.

 

If I asked you who was the first black player in the NFL, do you know off the top of your head? There certainly was one. And if you Google the first back player in the NBA, you actually can get multiple answers Don't you find it odd that MLB stands alone in that regard?

[moonslav59]

It was an upgrade in that Bay was not a disruptive force who took games off and created a media firestorm, if you look at it that way.

 

Nevertheless, they did not stay standing still all year...

 

We also got Workman as compensation for losing JBay.

[notin]

We also got Workman as compensation for losing JBay.

 

We would have gotten a pick when Manny left via free agency as well..

[Bellhorn04]

It was an upgrade in that Bay was not a disruptive force who took games off and created a media firestorm, if you look at it that way.

 

Nevertheless, they did not stay standing still all year...

 

Getting kind of technical there.

 

You have to admit it was a stand pat team to start the year.

[S5Dewey]

There's a lot that's odd about the racial thing and MLB. However, IMO the thing that separates MLB from the NFL and the NBA is that MLB was around long before either of the two other sports were. Therefore the breaking of the "tradition" was more newsworthy.

 

That still doesn't explain why they celebrate it. One would think that they would prefer to run and hide from it instead.

 

IMO one of the oddities is that it took as long as it did for integration to occur. The negro leagues were playing baseball at the same time the white MLB teams were playing and I would guess that some of the negro league players were as talented (or more so) than some of the white players. That speaks more to me about the blatant discrimination that was occurring than anything else.

[notin]

There's a lot that's odd about the racial thing and MLB. However, IMO the thing that separates MLB from the NFL and the NBA is that MLB was around long before either of the two other sports were. Therefore the breaking of the "tradition" was more newsworthy.

 

That still doesn't explain why they celebrate it. One would think that they would prefer to run and hide from it instead.

 

IMO one of the oddities is that it took as long as it did for integration to occur. The negro leagues were playing baseball at the same time the white MLB teams were playing and I would guess that some of the negro league players were as talented (or more so) than some of the white players. That speaks more to me about the blatant discrimination that was occurring than anything else.

 

Valid point about MLB being older. But that still doesn't excuse the behavior, especially in the wake of the Negro Leagues or the number of black players who pretended to be Mexican so they could play in MLB.

[moonslav59]

We would have gotten a pick when Manny left via free agency as well..

 

I think Manny's deal ran out after the rules changed for the worse, and I'm not sure what pick the Dodgers ended up getting, if any.

[moonslav59]

Getting kind of technical there.

 

You have to admit it was a stand pat team to start the year.

 

Yes, but the idea was we'd have Eovaldi and Pearce all year- not just 1/3.

 

We also had Brasier and Workman starting out the season on the 25 man roster.

 

Many felt that might be enough to bridge us to a deal at the deadline for a closer.

[sk7326]

If you were born when I was born, grew up where I grew up, it would likely have been possible to paint a picture of 90 to 95% of the people living in our area as racist. looking back in history and simply making a statement that anyone was a racist while you look at life through your own window today is a slippery slope as far as i'm concerned.

 

There were stories (either urban legends or open secrets depending on who you talk to) that Yawkey had a black player quota on the team well into the 1970s.

 

Part of the real joy of the Pedro and Papi experiences was it happening in what was the liliest white franchise of them all.

[notin]

I think Manny's deal ran out after the rules changed for the worse, and I'm not sure what pick the Dodgers ended up getting, if any.

 

Manny’s deal would have expired that year, but the Dodgers extended him for two years...

[Slasher9]

i really hope that the best and most talented person available gets this job regardless of - gender - sexual preferences - religious beliefs - skin color - cultural background - language spoken - etc. etc.

 

Love this post

[Slasher9]

It was an upgrade in that Bay was not a disruptive force who took games off and created a media firestorm, if you look at it that way.

 

Nevertheless, they did not stay standing still all year...

 

 

Red Sox have a parade in 2008 if they don’t make that trade. Guaranteed.

[sk7326]

Red Sox have a parade in 2008 if they don’t make that trade. Guaranteed.

 

It's baseball - no parade is guaranteed. Four years after the miracle against the Yankees, the Red Sox feel just a few innings short of a comeback only slightly less ridiculous.

[moonslav59]

Manny’s deal would have expired that year, but the Dodgers extended him for two years...

 

That's right. He wanted them to exercise the 2 option years, and they said no. He pouted. They released confidential medical reports, and the whole thing blew up.

[moonslav59]

Red Sox have a parade in 2008 if they don’t make that trade. Guaranteed.

 

Now, that's some speculating!

[illinoisredsox]

Red Sox have a parade in 2008 if they don’t make that trade. Guaranteed.

 

Wasn’t 2008 the year that Manny said he had a bad knee and when the Sox trainers asked him which one hurt he said he didn’t know?

 

The season certainly would have ended differently without the trade. But it would have depended on which Manny played and nobody knows the answer to that.

[Slasher9]

Wasn’t 2008 the year that Manny said he had a bad knee and when the Sox trainers asked him which one hurt he said he didn’t know?

 

The season certainly would have ended differently without the trade. But it would have depended on which Manny played and nobody knows the answer to that.

His numbers July 2008 before the trade were very good. Besides the occasional day off he wanted show me the month in 2008 that screams trade me.

[illinoisredsox]

His numbers July 2008 before the trade were very good. Besides the occasional day off he wanted show me the month in 2008 that screams trade me.

 

He hit well, but IIRC weren’t there a few incidents that took place outside the white lines? I think there was something with Youkilis (not passing judgement on that one as Youkilis could be an ass at times, but the two did clash). And the physical confrontation with the travel secretary over game tickets.

 

None of us were in the clubhouse so none of knows what was happening behind the scenes. More than likely both sides have culpability in the parting of ways.

[jung]

Institutionalizing this nonsense by defining terms like Openers and Featured Pitchers just tells us that MLB is going to ride their party bus right into the ditch....all the way down....all four wheels sinking into the ooze, ratings and attendance and the very game itself tanking along the way. Not going to fix a damned thing!

 

So in this world of Openers and now Featured pitchers how much is a starter that goes 4-5 innings consistently giving up a run or more an inning worth......$20M per? Heck....must be something like that if everybody else is going 1-2 innings consistently giving up a run an inning.

 

DD you prescient dog you. You got Nate for $17M per. Such a bargain........BRILLIANT!

Edited September 14, 2019 by jung

[notin]

His numbers July 2008 before the trade were very good. Besides the occasional day off he wanted show me the month in 2008 that screams trade me.

 

After the trade, his numbers were sensational...

[notin]

Institutionalizing this nonsense by defining terms like Openers and Featured Pitchers just tells us that MLB is going to ride their party bus right into the ditch....all the way down....all four wheels sinking into the ooze, ratings and attendance and the very game itself tanking along the way. Not going to fix a damned thing!

 

So in this world of Openers and now Featured pitchers how much is a starter that goes 4-5 innings consistently giving up a run or more an inning worth......$20M per? Heck....must be something like that if everybody else is going 1-2 innings consistently giving up a run an inning.

 

DD you prescient dog you. You got Nate for $17M per. Such a bargain........BRILLIANT!

 

You don't deal with change well, do you?

 

Baseball as a game has been changing for decades. Just because it's no longer the game you grew up with doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Heck, these opener/feature pitchers are just a fad. And their usage is not MLB policy.

 

Not sure why you think it's so detrimental, however...