Red Sox have fired GM Dave Dombrowski

[notin]

Houston really wanted Eovaldi, and we know how bad they are at evaluating good talent.

 

Well, they did trade Ramon Laureano for Brandon Bailey. Maybe that trade will work out, if Bailey ever makes the majors...

[dgalehouse]

Eovaldi pitched pretty well last year in the regular season. He added a cutter to his repertoire and his K/BB ratio improved dramatically.

 

There were reportedly a bunch of other teams interested in him.

 

I get questioning the deal because of his health history.

 

But the idea that they signed him strictly for his postseason is dumb.

 

Maybe not strictly because of that , but I do think it was the biggest factor .

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe not strictly because of that , but I do think it was the biggest factor .

 

It's natural for fans to think that way. I don't think GM's think that way when they're laying out $68 mill.

[cp176]

i think you are correct. i'm just in a bad place right now with this damn team of ours.....

 

I'm with you here! Too much blathering about DD and not enough aimed at the players and coaches that nearly everyone here felt would repeat. They have played poorly and have shown limited amounts of enthusiasm. The blame falls directly on them.

[dgalehouse]

I'm with you here! Too much blathering about DD and not enough aimed at the players and coaches that nearly everyone here felt would repeat. They have played poorly and have shown limited amounts of enthusiasm. The blame falls directly on them.

 

We should not put all the blame for this season on Dombrowski , and none of it on Henry and / or Cora . There is plenty to go around .

[notin]

It's natural for fans to think that way. I don't think GM's think that way when they're laying out $68 mill.

 

I hope not. But nevertheless it was a silly deal at the time. Maybe Eovaldi will suddenly emerge as a TOR starter, but I have my doubts he will even take the mound often enough...

[cp176]

Did he? I honestly don't know how involved he gets on this kind of stuff...

 

Since we really don't know, this is an area where I guess it is ok to speculate. In an interesting way it seems, you might be suggesting that the billionaire principal owner of the Red Sox doesn't seem to be fully up on the status of contracts that he is paying for. Are you just trying to be funny again notin? If you aren't, then i guess our owner just isn't very bright. I'm thinking that he is fully involved in any contract that pays out millions of dollars to any of his employees.

[Bellhorn04]

I hope not. But nevertheless it was a silly deal at the time. Maybe Eovaldi will suddenly emerge as a TOR starter, but I have my doubts he will even take the mound often enough...

 

4 * 17 is by no means TOR money, of course.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't know what happened there. I have no rational explanation beyond the starry eyed logic of the magical WS 7 innings and DD possibly insisting on doubling down on his 2018 late season acquisition binkies.

 

I will guess at one:

DD went "WOW, a guy that we can slot everywhere.....the pitching version of everyday player Brock Holt"

 

Whereas many of us might have preferred....."MEH....a pitcher really not slotted anywhere definitively with a more than spotty health record and a lackluster career as a starter."

 

DD payed WOW money when he likely should have been thinking MEH money or let him slide.

 

What's funny is that you said this at the time of the signing (I just bumped the thread):

 

Very happy with this deal. Some TJ's turn out super. Some not so much. This one has looked to be positively bionic. A risk well worth taking IMO.

[notin]

4 * 17 is by no means TOR money, of course.

 

No. But it is innings eater money. Eovaldi is an innings dieter...

[Kimmi]

I thought it was a dumb deal at the time based upon his health history and that, for how much more, Dallas Keuchel was still looking for a job. I would have given in to Kimbrel's insane demands before giving that contract to Eovaldi, and said so at the time...

 

That is still crazy talk Notin, even in hindsight.

 

I thought the Eovaldi deal was a year too long, but was otherwise perfectly on board with it.

 

The Porcello deal I'd do again any day of the week.

[Kimmi]

Eovaldi pitched pretty well last year in the regular season. He added a cutter to his repertoire and his K/BB ratio improved dramatically.

 

There were reportedly a bunch of other teams interested in him.

 

I get questioning the deal because of his health history.

 

But the idea that they signed him strictly for his postseason is dumb.

 

Thank you for this post Bell. I agree completely.

 

The Eovaldi deal, at the time it was given, was really not a bad deal. Now it might turn out to be terrible, but hindsight aside, it wasn't a bad deal.

 

And we're only one year into the deal. It might end up being a very good deal.

[notin]

Since we really don't know, this is an area where I guess it is ok to speculate. In an interesting way it seems, you might be suggesting that the billionaire principal owner of the Red Sox doesn't seem to be fully up on the status of contracts that he is paying for. Are you just trying to be funny again notin? If you aren't, then i guess our owner just isn't very bright. I'm thinking that he is fully involved in any contract that pays out millions of dollars to any of his employees.

 

No. I just don’t know when he stops trusting his people to make the right decisions. I assume he did hire Dombrowski in the first place because he had some sort of faith in his baseball acumen. Don’t you?

 

And I doubt any billionaire who owns multiple sports teams and has God knows how many other business ventures wants to get bogged down in each and every contract. I am not sure he has the time...

[dgalehouse]

No. I just don’t know when he stops trusting his people to make the right decisions. I assume he did hire Dombrowski in the first place because he had some sort of faith in his baseball acumen. Don’t you?

 

And I doubt any billionaire who owns multiple sports teams and has God knows how many other business ventures wants to get bogged down in each and every contract. I am not sure he has the time...

 

I'm pretty sure he has the time . He probably doesn't know much about baseball , but I would think all big expenditures would have to be approved by him .

[notin]

I'm pretty sure he has the time . He probably doesn't know much about baseball , but I would think all big expenditures would have to be approved by him .

 

Maybe. But when you’re the type of guy who can buy Manchester United, is a $60mill pitcher still considered a big purchase?

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if he left the baseball to his GM as long as the results were there...

[notin]

That is still crazy talk Notin, even in hindsight.

 

I thought the Eovaldi deal was a year too long, but was otherwise perfectly on board with it.

 

The Porcello deal I'd do again any day of the week.

 

Not really. I never said it was an either-or choice.

 

But I prefer the healthier arm. Players get injured. It’s part of the game. I don’t expect GMs to know who and when.

 

But with all the unforeseen injuries, why take on such an obvious injury risk and pay him like he isn’t one?

[Slasher9]

Maybe. But when you’re the type of guy who can buy Manchester United, is a $60mill pitcher still considered a big purchase?

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if he left the baseball to his GM as long as the results were there...

I think he owns Liverpool

[notin]

I think he owns Liverpool

 

But he’s the type of guy who can buy Manchester United. That he’s already bought Liverpool proves my point.

 

Heck, not only can he buy Manchester United, he can put it on his Visa.

 

Bottom line - does he really get involved in every expensive Red Sox transaction or does he trust his GM? I don’t want opinions. Does anyone actually know how involved he is? Or even heard a rumor about it?

[jung]

But he’s the type of guy who can buy Manchester United. That he’s already bought Liverpool proves my point.

 

Heck, not only can he buy Manchester United, he can put it on his Visa.

 

Bottom line - does he really get involved in every expensive Red Sox transaction or does he trust his GM? I don’t want opinions. Does anyone actually know how involved he is? Or even heard a rumor about it?

 

We actually had more than clues before Kennedy became the CEO. Now its unclear at least to me whether the Pres of Baseball Ops makes his case to Kennedy and then its Kennedy that decides if he will take major signing's to Henry himself for Henry's approval or if the CEO brings the Pres of Ops along and allows him to make his case in person.

 

Based on what we "knew" before Kennedy became CEO, it appeared obvious that the Pres of baseball ops (or GM if there was nobody titled as Pres of Ops) would go directly to Henry to get final approval for high ticket contracts with Larry Lucchino along for the ride while he was around, throwing his weight one way or the other.

 

We also no longer know where the cutoff is in a definition of a signing as high ticket.

 

I would think that the organization would have had to go to Henry for a final approval on the Sale extension but not the Eovaldi or the Pearce signings. To be clear, keeping ownership in the loop is not the same thing as seeking approval for a big deal. I would expect the owner to be kept in the loop for Major League signings....all of them.

 

This is not to say that rejecting a proposal for a high ticket contract from the organization to the owner in this town is an easy decision to come to. NOT IN THIS TOWN.

 

Lets say Henry rejected the Sale extension. Does anybody think that would not have gotten out in the media eventually and picked over in painful detail if that went wrong?

 

If it were me in Henry's position, I would have preferred that my Pres of Baseball Ops and my CEO figure out that the Sale extension in light of his issues with wear on his arm and his recent late season issues was premature and whatever money it cost to let the 2019 season play out was better than being stuck with that contract for 5 years given that better information, more complete information was only months away.

Edited September 12, 2019 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Bottom line - does he really get involved in every expensive Red Sox transaction or does he trust his GM? I don’t want opinions. Does anyone actually know how involved he is? Or even heard a rumor about it?

 

All we know is what's come out to the public. But there is some evidence of Henry being involved in certain big transactions.

 

Just a few examples that come to mind:

 

1) When the Red Sox met with Teixeira and Boras, it was Henry who announced afterward, rather disgustedly, that the Sox were not going to be signing him.

 

2) He made the statement about it not being a good idea to sign long term deals with pitchers over 30, or words to that effect.

 

3) Regarding the Sale extension, he said that the team made a mistake in how they handled the Lester negotiations and that they didn't want to do the same thing with Sale.

[S5Dewey]

But he’s the type of guy who can buy Manchester United. That he’s already bought Liverpool proves my point.

 

Heck, not only can he buy Manchester United, he can put it on his Visa.

 

Bottom line - does he really get involved in every expensive Red Sox transaction or does he trust his GM? I don’t want opinions. Does anyone actually know how involved he is? Or even heard a rumor about it?

 

C'mon. That's unfair and you know it. You imply that he's so wealthy that he can buy anything he wants but do you actually know that? Have you personally seen his bank statements and investment portfolios? How do you know he's not mortgaged to the hilt? I'm guessing that you don't.

 

All anyone is going to get here is opinions. Asking "push-poll questions" and then saying that you don't want opinions may be a great way to make a point (or try to prove that someone is "right") but it's a disingenuous way of doing it.

[cp176]

C'mon. That's unfair and you know it. You imply that he's so wealthy that he can buy anything he wants but do you actually know that? Have you personally seen his bank statements and investment portfolios? How do you know he's not mortgaged to the hilt? I'm guessing that you don't.

 

All anyone is going to get here is opinions. Asking "push-poll questions" and then saying that you don't want opinions may be a great way to make a point (or try to prove that someone is "right") but it's a disingenuous way of doing it.

 

a great post - this is what we see too often in today's world. Notin's opinion is no better nor is it any worse than anyone elses. i don't agree at all with him with respect to the way John Henry does business. Since it is a guess, i'm going with the concept that he is very much in tune with what goes on with respect to any major contract given to any player on any team that he owns.

[cp176]

We should not put all the blame for this season on Dombrowski , and none of it on Henry and / or Cora . There is plenty to go around .

 

in all honesty with respect to the large deals and trades made by DD, I was and still would be on board with most. My only question might possibly be with respect to the number of years given to some. I think that going out and acquiring high end fairly young talent with very good potential is a great idea. It obviously takes something to get something. i think that looking back at the deals made simply based on hindsight is ridiculous. When i hear that constant wail about the way DD depleted our farm, i tend to get perplexed because I can't recall any of the guys traded other then Moncada who really have to date accomplished much in the way of great things. really my only complaint this year was and would continue to be that more effort should have been spent on strenghthening the bullpen. i think that he had too much faith in the guys we had out there. In Dombrowski's case, his firing has allowed his detractors to take some fairly good shots at him. If any of the players he traded should blossom into front line players (Moncada not included), maybe I'll reconsider my opinion. As for now, i'm pretty sure that trading less for a whole lot more is ever a bad idea.

[cp176]

Oh and in addition to this, who is responsible for the lackluster effort and play shown lately by the boys? Alex Cora may some day become the manager that a few people anointed him to be after one year but right now not so much. i like the guy but one of the jobs that falls directly on his shoulders is to continue to insist that these guys play as hard as they can every single day.

[Bellhorn04]

When you're the decision-maker or manager of the Boston Red Sox you're subjected to heavy scrutiny and criticism on a daily basis. And winning championships doesn't change a thing.

[notin]

C'mon. That's unfair and you know it. You imply that he's so wealthy that he can buy anything he wants but do you actually know that? Have you personally seen his bank statements and investment portfolios? How do you know he's not mortgaged to the hilt? I'm guessing that you don't.

 

All anyone is going to get here is opinions. Asking "push-poll questions" and then saying that you don't want opinions may be a great way to make a point (or try to prove that someone is "right") but it's a disingenuous way of doing it.

 

Are you f***ing serious?

 

I wanted a simple answer about John Henry’s involvement. Someone somewhere probably read an article or a book that mentions something. That’s not a crazy request.

 

But too many get into the “Don’t you think a billionaire....” stuff. I have no idea how billionaires think, apparently unlike most people here. I have no idea how much time he bothers with on the Red Sox. Is it a hobby? Does he have a team of people? Does he just let the GM do everything as long as it works out? That last one wouldn’t surprise me.

 

I’m not looking for legal documentation. Just someone with something like “In his book Francina said...” or “Alex Speier wrote an article about...”. I don’t think that’s an insane request...

[moonslav59]

in all honesty with respect to the large deals and trades made by DD, I was and still would be on board with most. My only question might possibly be with respect to the number of years given to some. I think that going out and acquiring high end fairly young talent with very good potential is a great idea. It obviously takes something to get something. i think that looking back at the deals made simply based on hindsight is ridiculous. When i hear that constant wail about the way DD depleted our farm, i tend to get perplexed because I can't recall any of the guys traded other then Moncada who really have to date accomplished much in the way of great things. really my only complaint this year was and would continue to be that more effort should have been spent on strenghthening the bullpen. i think that he had too much faith in the guys we had out there. In Dombrowski's case, his firing has allowed his detractors to take some fairly good shots at him. If any of the players he traded should blossom into front line players (Moncada not included), maybe I'll reconsider my opinion. As for now, i'm pretty sure that trading less for a whole lot more is ever a bad idea.

 

I don't disagree with anything here, but I'd like to add:

 

1) To sign the best FAs, you have to go with longer deals than you want. Otherwise, you don't get the man you really want.

 

2) On the prospects we traded, most have yet to reach prime or are just breaking into the majors now, so lets wait on the "what have they accomplished" part of the judgment.

 

3) For many of us, it was not about wanting to hoard all our prospects, and I don't think Ben was going to keep even half of them.It was about trying to make deals like the Sale one- not the Kimbrel and Pom ones.

[Slasher9]

But he’s the type of guy who can buy Manchester United. That he’s already bought Liverpool proves my point.

 

Heck, not only can he buy Manchester United, he can put it on his Visa.

 

Bottom line - does he really get involved in every expensive Red Sox transaction or does he trust his GM? I don’t want opinions. Does anyone actually know how involved he is? Or even heard a rumor about it?

 

he gave DD a number each year (ie budget). how DD got there was on DD. for multiyear 8 figure salaries (Sale, Price, X-bo) Commander Data had to green light.

[Slasher9]

also...where is my Fire Cora thread? i need to bump that. the way the team has performed since the DD firing has me believing that we axed the wrong guy......

[cp176]

also...where is my Fire Cora thread? i need to bump that. the way the team has performed since the DD firing has me believing that we axed the wrong guy......

 

lol - you rascally guy