Swihart DFA

[notin]

Is 'finished his career' more accurate then?

 

 

Not something you could say Farrell did. Wright’s off field activities might have finished his career.

 

Wright was already well over 30. Yet fans act like Farrell went all Dusty Baker to Wright’s Mark Prior. Get some perspective. The overwhelming majority of MLB pitchers are already done before they reach the age Wright was on that day...

[Bellhorn04]

Not something you could say Farrell did. Wright’s off field activities might have finished his career.

 

Wright was already well over 30. Yet fans act like Farrell went all Dusty Baker to Wright’s Mark Prior. Get some perspective. The overwhelming majority of MLB pitchers are already done before they reach the age Wright was on that day...

 

Wright could also have pitched for another 10 years, for all you and I know. Wakefield pitched till he was 44.

 

You're basically saying that even if that play finished Wright's career it was no big deal. Nice.

[mvp 78]

Wright could also have pitched for another 10 years, for all you and I know. Wakefield pitched till he was 44.

 

You're basically saying that even if that play finished Wright's career it was no big deal. Nice.

 

Dude is very fragile from what we’ve seen. No way does he pitch another 10 years.

[notin]

Wright could also have pitched for another 10 years, for all you and I know. Wakefield pitched till he was 44.

 

You're basically saying that even if that play finished Wright's career it was no big deal. Nice.

 

 

And what are we basing the “finished his career “ on? Are you trying to argue that Wright was durable enough to pitch for 10 more years yet still fragile enough that one shoulder injury ended it all?

 

Also, if anything has already ended his career, you don’t think it’s the DV and PED scandals?

[moonslav59]

so far in AZ he has played OF 3 times and Catcher 0 times. i dont think he is viewed as a catcher anymore.

 

...as well he shouldn't be, except as an emergency 3rd catcher on a 25 man roster that is probably better than most teams can come up with.

 

We did the guy a favor by allowing him a chance to show he might be able to play another position. Nothing in his offensive history justified that opportunity.

[moonslav59]

My opinion that the Sox handled Swihart poorly has nothing to do with him breaking his ankle.

 

Those things happen and are not the fault of management.

 

Maybe not you, but some Swihart supporters think he should have been allowed to play only catcher as well as be handed many more starts than we gave him.

[moonslav59]

It's true that in both cases bad luck was involved, but the scenarios were pretty different. Wright had never been on the basepaths in his career when Farrell inserted him there. And he's not the most athletic-looking ballplayer. He was a fish out of water.

 

It's not that hard to run the bases. It was a freak injury. Yes, inexperience might have been part of the issue, but asking a faster player to PR, desspite less experience, is not an absurd idea.

[notin]

Maybe not you, but some Swihart supporters think he should have been allowed to play only catcher as well as be handed many more starts than we gave him.

 

 

The thing about Swihart is, at some point he just gets too old to be a prospect anymore, regardless of chances. And it’s not the way anyone wants their Big Chance to end up, but sometimes key years are lost to injury. Swihart isn’t the first prospect and won’t be the last.

 

I really think prospects are rarely ruined by being called up too early. It’s what they’ve all been working for their whole lives. And nowadays, “not ready yet” more often than not means “still eligible for super two status” or “might reach free agency before peak years end”.

 

I don’t think you can and should start pointing fingers and blaming management every time a top prospect doesn’t pan out or every time a player gets injured. It’s going to happen. It’s part of sports...

[moonslav59]

Maybe you could argue he ruined Steven Wright’s season. But career?

 

At the time, Wright was 32 years old and still had made three times as many starts in the minors as in the majors, with plenty of inconsistency there as well. His career was always going to be in question...

 

He was far from inconsistent when compared to the average pitcher in MLB.

 

His injuries and suspensions are what made him unreliable, and some of his poor performances were partially a result of those injuries or rustiness upon returning from those injuries and the suspension.

 

I'll use ERA as my stat of choice, because it's easier to research. Wright started off slowly in the minors, and ended up with about the same ERA as his career MLB number (3.77 to 3.79).

 

His first 5 years were a bit "all over the map:"

 

5.67 (114 IP as a SP'er)

4.14 (148 as SP'er)

2.48 (87 almost all as RP'er)

4.91 (JUST 7 IP, so I don't count this)

5.02 (75 IP almost all as RP)

6.19 (134 back to mostly a SP'er)

 

Then, we see a lot of consistently good numbers from 2012-2018, except for injury or shortened seasons:

 

2.54 (142 all as SP'er/ traded to BOS in 2012)

4.26 (135 IP all as SP'er with 13 IP in MLB at 5.40)

3.42 (100 IP all as SP'er in 2014)

4.09 (73 IP with BOS as SP/RP) and 3.81 in AAA (52 IP all as SP) 2015

3.81 (157 IP with BOS aa in 24 starts)

8.25 (JUST 24 IP in 5 starts- injured most of 2017)

2.68 (54 IP mostly in relief in 2018) and 4.86 in just 17 IP at AAA.

 

If you throw out the 24 IP season of 2017, Wright had 6 straight seasons of remarkable consistency and positive production. His worst season was a decent 4.26 season way back in 2013.

 

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

And what are we basing the “finished his career “ on? Are you trying to argue that Wright was durable enough to pitch for 10 more years yet still fragile enough that one shoulder injury ended it all?

 

Also, if anything has already ended his career, you don’t think it’s the DV and PED scandals?

 

Shoulder injuries are not the greatest things for pitchers, no.

 

You must be kidding about the DV and PED scandals. Neither of those were career-enders by any stretch of the imagination.

[Bellhorn04]

It's not that hard to run the bases. It was a freak injury. Yes, inexperience might have been part of the issue, but asking a faster player to PR, desspite less experience, is not an absurd idea.

 

Guys get hurt running the bases all the time. I wouldn't call it a freak.

 

Chien-Ming Wang is a pitcher who (arguably) had his career ruined on the basepaths.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Bellhorn04

[notin]

Shoulder injuries are not the greatest things for pitchers, no.

 

You must be kidding about the DV and PED scandals. Neither of those were career-enders by any stretch of the imagination.

 

We don’t know that. Possibly not.

 

But I do know he’s currently rehabbing a knee injury that’s unrelated to the pinchrunning episode...

[Bellhorn04]

Who brought up Wright here anyway?

 

Oh yes, it was that troublemaker Kimmi.

[moonslav59]

The thing about Swihart is, at some point he just gets too old to be a prospect anymore, regardless of chances. And it’s not the way anyone wants their Big Chance to end up, but sometimes key years are lost to injury. Swihart isn’t the first prospect and won’t be the last.

 

I really think prospects are rarely ruined by being called up too early. It’s what they’ve all been working for their whole lives. And nowadays, “not ready yet” more often than not means “still eligible for super two status” or “might reach free agency before peak years end”.

 

I don’t think you can and should start pointing fingers and blaming management every time a top prospect doesn’t pan out or every time a player gets injured. It’s going to happen. It’s part of sports...

 

I agree, and my point is that Swihart got way more chances than the average prospect hitting under .700 almost every year at whatever level he was at. To choose this case as the one to blame management is, to me, about the worst choice one could make.

 

Most teams have moved away from the tradition of giving the athletic type of prospect more leeway and chances, and for good reason. Athleticism is not always a good criteria to use for a prospect, and probably less so for a catcher.

 

Swihart's first full season was at age 19 at Greenville. He hit .702 in 378 PAs. He improved at A+ ball in 2013 (.794 in 422 PAs), but that was not really eye-opening numbers.

 

His best moment was in 2014, when in AA, he hit .840 in 380 PAs, and this is when all the hype and hope began. I was one of the many Sox fans with high hopes at that time. He had a strong arm, a quick release time and even showed some power with 12 HRs in 347 ABs. That year, at age 22, they called him up to AAA for 71 PAs (.659 OPS). His .810 overall OPS in 2014 remains his brightest season.

 

We all know what happened in 2015. Surely, a catcher with just 18 games in AAA and just over 300 in all of his years in the minors is not usually called up to the bigs, especially as a catcher for a team thought to be a contender at the start of the year.

 

I can see how a .712 OPS that year in 309 PAs looks encouraging, considering the circumstances, but it is not great. What is often forgotten is the fact that we sucked with Swihart as our starting catcher, and I think management had serious doubts about his ability to handle a staff. Here are the CERA numbers for 2015:

4.51 Swihart (35-43 in his starts)

3.47 Leon

4.58 Hanigan

(43-41 in starts by Leon + Hanigan)

 

Swihart also hit just .714 in AAA that 2015 season (80 PAs)

 

The 2016 season began with Swihart as our starter, with Vaz maybe not quite over his injury. Swihart was yanked as the starter very early that year, and that's when all this debate started. I feel they knew Vaz was going to be the starter all along.

 

While Swihart had a respectable .720 OPS that year in just 74 PAs, his CERA was a distant last place out of the 5 catchers we used that year:

5.71 Swihart (224 PAs)

4.27 Vaz (1860)

3.90 Leon (2502)

3.72 Holaday (357)

3.55 Hanigan (1130)

This was the season Leon hit .845, so there was no way Swihart should have been catching more. BTW, he hit .655 in AAA in 2016 (122 PAs)

 

2017: .539 at AAA (212) and .575 in Rk league

 

2018: .613 in BOS (207 PAs)

 

2019: .581 in 40 PAs

 

I could post the CERA numbers over these last 3 years, but I've already done that over a dozen times. They were not good.

 

In short, Swihart looked very promising was back in 2014 at Portland. He hit okay when called up early to Boston. Other than that, he did absolutely nothing to distinguish himself as a keeper, and yet we kept him on board.

 

 

 

 

 

[cp176]

Guys get hurt running the bases all the time. I wouldn't call it a freak.

 

Chien-Ming Wang is a pitcher who (arguably) had his career ruined on the basepaths.

 

Putting Swihart in the outfield at least made some sense. Using an out of shape pitcher who you needed by the way, was absolutely a wrong play. Actually it seemed ridiculous at the time. Trying to compare the two situations in my opinion is just as foolish as putting Wright on the base paths was. That injury was on Farrell. Any other and I mean any other player could and should have been used in that situation. situations were not comparable at all.

[jacksonianmarch]

Guys get hurt running the bases all the time. I wouldn't call it a freak.

 

Chien-Ming Wang is a pitcher who (arguably) had his career ruined on the basepaths.

 

Not arguably. He admitted that he hurt his shoulder compensating for his foot injury which didn’t heal quickly.

[Kimmi]

It's true that in both cases bad luck was involved, but the scenarios were pretty different. Wright had never been on the basepaths in his career when Farrell inserted him there. And he's not the most athletic-looking ballplayer. He was a fish out of water.

 

No, the scenarios were very similar. In both cases, you have a player in a situation in which he was not the best prepared to be in. Wright is an athlete. He should be able to run bases.

 

Blaming Farrell for the injury is just silly.

[Kimmi]

Maybe not you, but some Swihart supporters think he should have been allowed to play only catcher as well as be handed many more starts than we gave him.

 

I don't think Swihart should have been moved to LF after only 8 games aat catcher.

 

That is not the same as blaming the ankle injury on management.

[cp176]

Once again - Wright was and probably is an out of shape knuckle ball pitcher. Swihart was and likely is in excellent shape. There was a huge difference between the two. Some people are in awe of the expression "major leaguer" - I'm not. I would be very curious to know whether or not Steven Wright could have run an 8 minute mile at the time he was asked to run the bases. I doubt it very much. It might have been poor judgement to try to use Swihart in another position but it was understandable. Using Wright as a pinch runner - you have got to be kidding me.

[Slasher9]

Ditching swihart and Bringing up Leon certainly has helped the SPers in a yuuuge way.

Early verdict is that this was the smart move by DD

[notin]

Once again - Wright was and probably is an out of shape knuckle ball pitcher. Swihart was and likely is in excellent shape. There was a huge difference between the two. Some people are in awe of the expression "major leaguer" - I'm not. I would be very curious to know whether or not Steven Wright could have run an 8 minute mile at the time he was asked to run the bases. I doubt it very much. It might have been poor judgement to try to use Swihart in another position but it was understandable. Using Wright as a pinch runner - you have got to be kidding me.

 

 

While using Wright himself as a pinch runner might not have been the best move, using a non- pitching starting pitcher as a pinch runner is something that happens all the time in NL games (or NL Parks for interleague games, like the one Wright was injured in.)

 

The story goes Wright asked to pinch run and really wanted to, so Farrell let him. But if Farrellwanted to use a SP, Drew Pomeranz was available that day and had been a pinch runner earlier that year with the Padres.

 

But all of this is irrelevant considering Wright’s issue right now is micro fractures in his knee and not the shoulder he hurt on the bases. But if he’s never the same again because of his knee, his downward spiral will still be attributed to Farrell and the pinch running. Like how Matt Clement’s downfall is always attributed to taking a line drive off the head when the real culprit was a severely damaged rotator cuff that he insisted on pitching through...

[dgalehouse]

I would blame Farrell for some things . Having Wright pinch run is not one of them . One could reasonably expect any player to run the bases without getting hurt . Steven Wright should be DFA'd . It is pathetic if a championship team has to hope that this problem child , this prodigal son returns to help save the day . Let him go .

[cp176]

While using Wright himself as a pinch runner might not have been the best move, using a non- pitching starting pitcher as a pinch runner is something that happens all the time in NL games (or NL Parks for interleague games, like the one Wright was injured in.)

 

The story goes Wright asked to pinch run and really wanted to, so Farrell let him. But if Farrellwanted to use a SP, Drew Pomeranz was available that day and had been a pinch runner earlier that year with the Padres.

 

But all of this is irrelevant considering Wright’s issue right now is micro fractures in his knee and not the shoulder he hurt on the bases. But if he’s never the same again because of his knee, his downward spiral will still be attributed to Farrell and the pinch running. Like how Matt Clement’s downfall is always attributed to taking a line drive off the head when the real culprit was a severely damaged rotator cuff that he insisted on pitching through...

 

I don't disagree with any of what you have said. My response is to anyone who wants to draw any comparison to what happened to both Swihart and Wright. Most of us I'm sure realize that those scenarios are not remotely close. Using Swihart in the outfield regardless of whether or not anyone disliked the move, was not a foolish move to make. In a normal situation yes you would think that a pitcher could be used as a pinch runner but in this case the decision was made to use an out of shape pitcher on the base paths. That was a bad move the resulted in bad things. With all of that being said though, I would have traded the knuckleballer when he was on top and I certainly do not care if he ever pitches in Boston again.

[a700hitter]

I would blame Farrell for some things . Having Wright pinch run is not one of them . One could reasonably expect any player to run the bases without getting hurt . Steven Wright should be DFA'd . It is pathetic if a championship team has to hope that this problem child , this prodigal son returns to help save the day . Let him go .

Dumb move by Farrell. There is no dispute on that one.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Guy ran like a wide receiver threw like a starting pitcher hit better than JBJ ,Nuney ,Sandy ,Pearce ,Pedey ,Lin and others was treated like absolute dog excrement .You will be missed .may you grow like the mighty sycamore into the ball player you should be .

[notin]

Guy ran like a wide receiver threw like a starting pitcher hit better than JBJ ,Nuney ,Sandy ,Pearce ,Pedey ,Lin and others was treated like absolute dog excrement .You will be missed .may you grow like the mighty sycamore into the ball player you should be .

 

Swihart? Blake Swihart?

[moonslav59]

I don't think Swihart should have been moved to LF after only 8 games aat catcher.

 

That is not the same as blaming the ankle injury on management.

 

Did you notice he's not catching with AZ?

 

We did him a favor by letting him learn other positions.

 

He was never going to be our catcher. Either it was LF or DFA.

[SCM33]

Both guys are 1-11 since the transaction. Really tearing the cover off the ball.

[SCM33]

Did you notice he's not catching with AZ?

 

We did him a favor by letting him learn other positions.

 

He was never going to be our catcher. Either it was LF or DFA.

 

which makes me even more frustrated that we couldn’t find a role for the guy. He is athletic enough that he could play the corners of the INF, OF and C

[Bellhorn04]

which makes me even more frustrated that we couldn’t find a role for the guy. He is athletic enough that he could play the corners of the INF, OF and C

 

But can he hit? It's yet to be proven.