Vasquez

[bosoxmal]

I amfighting late stages of Macro D (at age 94) sofind it hard to keep with even the most obvious. Which brings us to Vasquez. Three years ago I was sure he was the Sox catcher until 293! Now I wonder why he's even on the roster.

 

What happened? His hitting and fielding get worse every day.

 

This is not somethng out of the blue. Cora is using him less than he ever did, so it's not a secret.

 

What's the answer? I'll follow as best I can.

 

Excuse the typos

[Spitball]

Nice post, bosoxmal! I'm not sure what to make of Christian Vazquez's start, or any of the other Red Sox players who are struggling at this point. Was it the prolonged west coast trip after being in Fort Myers since mid February? Or is there another factor affecting a team that was so dominant last season?

[Northern Star]

Vazquez has never been the answer. He sucks in WAR on both sides of the field. How the Sox have not found a suitable upgrade yet, I don't know.

[Jasonbay44]

I doubt he ever becomes the player many thought he would be. He can't hit and his defense is overrated. If were going to go with a guy who can't hit at all, might as well go with Leon, his defense is better, and neither can hit.

[Spitball]

Vazquez may have a better year this season as soon as the whole team figures out how to win again. Last year, he had a finger injury that kept him out for a couple of months. I put his problems today more on Sales' lack of focus. Toronto played today like a 1970's Billy Ball team, and the Red Sox failed to make the necessary adjustments. I really think Sale was more to blame than Vazquez.

[SCM33]

I doubt he ever becomes the player many thought he would be. He can't hit and his defense is overrated. If were going to go with a guy who can't hit at all, might as well go with Leon, his defense is better, and neither can hit.

 

He hits better than Leon. Nobody is more overrated than Leon (around here, considering no other team in baseball wanted him). Vasquez is nearly as good as Leon defensively, and hes much younger.

 

Again, NOBODY IN BASEBALL WANTED HIM, WHEN EVERY MLB TEAM HAD THE CHANCE TO CLAIM HIM. He sucks, and everyone else knows it, except for some fans in the Boston area.

[SCM33]

Vazquez may have a better year this season as soon as the whole team figures out how to win again. Last year, he had a finger injury that kept him out for a couple of months. I put his problems today more on Sales' lack of focus. Toronto played today like a 1970's Billy Ball team, and the Red Sox failed to make the necessary adjustments. I really think Sale was more to blame than Vazquez.

 

Vasquez is not to blame for the fact that Sale is throwing 10 MPH slower than last year, and cant get ahead of hitters.

 

Since when does a catcher effect a Cy Young pitchers ability to locate and throw hard?

 

Such a stupid argument, like Leon is the next coming of Johnny Bench. Please, get real.

[mvp 78]

I’m not a Vaz fan. Leon FTW.

[SCM33]

I’m not a Vaz fan. Leon FTW.

 

Leon helps Sale throw harder?

[moonslav59]

Vasquez is not to blame for the fact that Sale is throwing 10 MPH slower than last year, and cant get ahead of hitters.

 

Since when does a catcher effect a Cy Young pitchers ability to locate and throw hard?

 

Such a stupid argument, like Leon is the next coming of Johnny Bench. Please, get real.

 

Nobody is coming close to saying Leon is any where near Bench.

 

(BTW, Leon has the best seasonal OPS of all our catchers since 2017. I'm not disagreeing with you on him being our worst hitting catcher, but let's not act like Swihart and Vaz have proven they are MUCH better. Swihart "is not the next coming of Posey, get real."

[moonslav59]

Leon helps Sale throw harder?

 

Of course not, but how has better offense from the catcher position been helping us?

 

Just as Leon can not help Sale throw harder, Swihart has not helped us score more or win more.

 

Let's give the season some time, and see what happens.

 

Swihart has won the job and will be given the chance he has been waiting for.

[Slasher9]

If a pitcher thinks he throws better to catcher XYZ then he will...

[moonslav59]

If a pitcher thinks he throws better to catcher XYZ then he will...

 

I definitely agree with this and the whole "comfort level" argument, but I doubt Sale throws 8 mph harder with Leon today.

[Jasonbay44]

He hits better than Leon. Nobody is more overrated than Leon (around here, considering no other team in baseball wanted him). Vasquez is nearly as good as Leon defensively, and hes much younger.

 

Again, NOBODY IN BASEBALL WANTED HIM, WHEN EVERY MLB TEAM HAD THE CHANCE TO CLAIM HIM. He sucks, and everyone else knows it, except for some fans in the Boston area.

 

This is almost all false. Leon just turned 30, Vazquez turns 29 this summer. There is a minimal age difference. Vazquez isn't a kid anymore, and isn't getting better, and he was for some reason signed to an extension through 2022. They both suck at hitting, but Vazquez was actually worse than Leon last season. Leon is a much better defender and isn't really close. Leon last season had a 1.1 Defensive WAR. for his whole career Vazquez is a 1 WAR player, was awful last season, and isn't off a great start this year, offensively or defensively.

 

Vazquez sucks, and everyone knows it, except some fans in the Boston.

 

Also, my argument has nothing to do with Sale, just to be clear, I just think Vazquez sucks.

[Spitball]

Vasquez is not to blame for the fact that Sale is throwing 10 MPH slower than last year, and cant get ahead of hitters.

 

Since when does a catcher effect a Cy Young pitchers ability to locate and throw hard?

 

Such a stupid argument, like Leon is the next coming of Johnny Bench. Please, get real.

 

 

I don't think you really comprehended my post. That is okay. I never said or implied the things you stated. As I stated, Toronto played 1970s Billy Ball (hit and run and stealing home). If you are too young to know what Billy Ball was, you can google it. I never said anything about location or velocity.

[moonslav59]

Best to worst OPS year (200+ PAs) by our catchers (since 2015):

 

.845 Leon (283) in 2017

.735 Vaz (345) in 2017

.712 Swihart (309) in 2015

.644 Leon (301) in 2017

.613 Swihart (207) in 2018

.540 Vaz (269) in 2018

.511 Leon (288) in 2018

 

Leon has the best, the middle and the worst. We tend to remember the most recent.

[mvp 78]

Leon helps Sale throw harder?

 

No, but ALL of the rotation looks like s*** this year. That didn't happen under Leon.

[moonslav59]

No, but ALL of the rotation looks like s*** this year. That didn't happen under Leon.

 

True, but they also never had so little work in ST'ing before this year....

[cp176]

I thought I could control myself here but nope - can't do it. i'm invoking the old "csp" rule here (the common sense principle). It sure won't hurt to bring back Leon and use him I guess but if anyone thinks that he will lead us to some kind of turn around and that he is the answer to all of our starting pitchers looking so pathetic, I want some of that stuff boys. Seriously what does that say about our two current catchers? Do they both suck so badly that this team can't win without the guy that nobody else wants? I doubt it. it is very interesting to me that so many of us felt that there was no need to make any change with respect to our backstops but yet now we seem to think that Leon might drag out the Cy Young gifts that all of our guys must have. Our catchers - all 3 - just aren't that good. They are good enough i guess when we win but I'm not buying the theory that they are responsible for what is going on right now.

[jacksonianmarch]

A good catcher can coax a better performance out of their pitchers, but I doubt Leon could coax 98 out of Sale’s left arm.

 

The problem isn’t pitch calling, it’s pitch execution. A good catcher can increase the faith the pitcher has in his stuff, but if command is a problem, a good catcher can’t help that. The Sox staff has suffered both a loss of stuff and a loss of command

[Slasher9]

I thought I could control myself here but nope - can't do it. i'm invoking the old "csp" rule here (the common sense principle). It sure won't hurt to bring back Leon and use him I guess but if anyone thinks that he will lead us to some kind of turn around and that he is the answer to all of our starting pitchers looking so pathetic, I want some of that stuff boys. Seriously what does that say about our two current catchers? Do they both suck so badly that this team can't win without the guy that nobody else wants? I doubt it. it is very interesting to me that so many of us felt that there was no need to make any change with respect to our backstops but yet now we seem to think that Leon might drag out the Cy Young gifts that all of our guys must have. Our catchers - all 3 - just aren't that good. They are good enough i guess when we win but I'm not buying the theory that they are responsible for what is going on right now.

 

CP - this is where i am at:

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

[mvp 78]

I think it's Leon's disposition that could calm these struggling pitchers right now. Vaz just has too many mental breaks (passed balls, steals of home) that I don't think Leon has. I just like his presence behind the plate. Sometimes Vaz seems out to lunch.

[S5Dewey]

I think it's Leon's disposition that could calm these struggling pitchers right now. Vaz just has too many mental breaks (passed balls, steals of home) that I don't think Leon has. I just like his presence behind the plate. Sometimes Vaz seems out to lunch.

 

I'm not sure we can blame that steal of home on Vaz. Devers was playing too far off the bag to be considered "holding" the runner, Sale was pitching from a full windup, and Vaz couldn't have caught that pitch with a butterfly net.

 

But I agree about the PB's.

[cp176]

CP - this is where i am at:

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

 

"Believe half of what you hear and none of what you see"! I think that you might be right.

[cp176]

I think it's Leon's disposition that could calm these struggling pitchers right now. Vaz just has too many mental breaks (passed balls, steals of home) that I don't think Leon has. I just like his presence behind the plate. Sometimes Vaz seems out to lunch.

 

I have always felt that Leon has been and is a better catcher.

[Hitch]

I don't think we should discount comfort level between pitchers and catchers as well. When there's a level of trust and belief between pitcher and a certain catcher that isn't there with others, that's an intangible that should be kept in mind.

 

I doubt it will happen and I doubt we could get anything worhtwhile, but I'd be more than happy to trade Vaz and bring back Sandy. I don't (and haven't for a while now) see what Vaz brings us that is worth keeping him around on his contract. Leon with a Swilhart as back up would be my preferred choice.

[Slasher9]

"Believe half of what you hear and none of what you see"! I think that you might be right.

 

wait...what? did we just agree on something? or not so much?

[mvp 78]

I don't think we should discount comfort level between pitchers and catchers as well. When there's a level of trust and belief between pitcher and a certain catcher that isn't there with others, that's an intangible that should be kept in mind.

 

I doubt it will happen and I doubt we could get anything worhtwhile, but I'd be more than happy to trade Vaz and bring back Sandy. I don't (and haven't for a while now) see what Vaz brings us that is worth keeping him around on his contract. Leon with a Swilhart as back up would be my preferred choice.

 

Vaz is just a more expensive version of Leon.

[Maxbialystock]

I honestly don't like Vazquez that much, but I seriously doubt he is the problem with the rotation. For these reasons--

 

1. He was the primary catcher last year, and the staff did fine.

2. This year the bullpen hasn't had the same problem as the rotation. In fact, far from it.

3. Indeed, by far the best pitched game this season was the only game in which none of the five starters threw a single pitch.

4. DD, Cora, and the pitching coach must have all agreed to retain Vasquez as the primary catcher even though it means paying Leon $2.5M to be in Pawtucket (after first putting him on waivers).

5. Speaking of which, why didn't any of the other 29 MLB teams pick up the greatest catcher in Sox history, Sandy Leon? Maybe because he really ain't that great--or ain't worth that $2.5M salary.

[dgalehouse]

In the long history of baseball , has so much attention ever been given to a player as pedestrian as Sandy Leon ? Our ultra high priced starting pitchers just can't live without him ?