Devers

[moonslav59]

Regardless, it hardly quantifies as "keep going on"...........

 

Well, it seems like a lot over a point nobody made.

[moonslav59]

Nunez is an adventure out there, especially at 3B. Maybe he can hit like LeMahieu, but as a defender....he sucks.

 

He sucks at 2B, but when healthy, he's not really bad at 3B, at least over the last 3 years.

 

He's not someone I'd want as my FT 3B, and neither is LeMahieu.

 

I have faith in Devers. My hope is he can become close to average on defense within a year or two. If he hits like I think he will, I'm fine with a slight negative defense, but moving him to 1B may still end up being what is best.

 

He's still young enough to improve. I think he's got quick reflexes, which helps at 3B. His range is already +3.7 on fangraphs, but he makes bad throws too often. That's something that is easier to correct than range, where you either have it or you don't.

 

We'll know more after this year. We'll also know more about Dalbec & Chavis.

[BillyWilliams]

Well, it seems like a lot over a point nobody made.

 

Well when debating who the better player is fielding is part of the equation.........

[harmony]

On the topic of comps to a Yankee third baseman, RotoGraphs columnist Brad Johnson offers this:

Profile: During his rookie campaign as a 24-year-old, Ryon Healy popped 13 home runs in 283 plate appearances – a pace of about 30 over a full season. He also hit .305/.337/.524. Last season, a 23-year-old rookie hit 27 home runs in 606 plate appearances while batting .297/.328/.527. It was Miguel Andujar. Both players had slightly over a four percent walk rate with comparable ground ball and fly ball rates. Where Andujar differed is a five-point lower strikeout rate. Otherwise, the two could have been twins. What does this mean for Healy (or Andujar)? Nothing at all. It’s almost certainly a trivial coincidence. Since his shiny rookie season, Healy has trended steadily downward, finishing 2018 just shy of one win below replacement level. The Mariners will hope for a rebound because what else do they have to do with their 2019 roster. Perhaps they should consider setting Dan Vogelbach free. (Brad Johnson)

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=15447&position=1B/3B

[moonslav59]

Well when debating who the better player is fielding is part of the equation.........

 

Nobody claimed Nunez was a better defender than LeMahieu. In fact, my original post on the issue clearly states Nunez is not a good defender, but is better than Devers, who we all agree has been pretty bad.

 

Your WAR numbers include a big defensive boost from his 2B defense.

[FredLynn]

He sucks at 2B, but when healthy, he's not really bad at 3B, at least over the last 3 years.

 

He's not someone I'd want as my FT 3B, and neither is LeMahieu.

 

I have faith in Devers. My hope is he can become close to average on defense within a year or two. If he hits like I think he will, I'm fine with a slight negative defense, but moving him to 1B may still end up being what is best.

 

He's still young enough to improve. I think he's got quick reflexes, which helps at 3B. His range is already +3.7 on fangraphs, but he makes bad throws too often. That's something that is easier to correct than range, where you either have it or you don't.

 

We'll know more after this year. We'll also know more about Dalbec & Chavis.

 

Nunez sucks defensively at any base, but since we were talking about 3B I used that as my example. As for Devers, I haven't been watching many ST games, but last year he had no concept of the strike zone. Unless he morphs into Vlad Guerrero or that changes he will never reach what many here call his "potential". So far I have seen no evidence of either.

[Bellhorn04]

Nunez sucks defensively at any base, but since we were talking about 3B I used that as my example. As for Devers, I haven't been watching many ST games, but last year he had no concept of the strike zone. Unless he morphs into Vlad Guerrero or that changes he will never reach what many here call his "potential". So far I have seen no evidence of either.

 

Wrong. Devers is going to be a great hitter.

[BillyWilliams]

Nobody claimed Nunez was a better defender than LeMahieu. In fact, my original post on the issue clearly states Nunez is not a good defender, but is better than Devers, who we all agree has been pretty bad.

 

Your WAR numbers include a big defensive boost from his 2B defense.

 

I never stated that you or anyone claimed nunez was a better defender.

 

The debate was who is the better player, sheesh.......

[BillyWilliams]

Wrong. Devers is going to be a great hitter.

 

Maybe ...... or maybe not.

[FredLynn]

Wrong. Devers is going to be a great hitter.

 

I didn't say that he might not become a great hitter. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. I will tell you this with certainty: he won't be a great hitter until he learns the strike zone. And so far he hasn't proven that he has learned that lesson.

[Bellhorn04]

I didn't say that he might not become a great hitter. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. I will tell you this with certainty: he won't be a great hitter until he learns the strike zone. And so far he hasn't proven that he has learned that lesson.

 

He might look bad in some at-bats, but his overall numbers really aren't that bad, especially when you consider his age.

[Kimmi]

He might look bad in some at-bats, but his overall numbers really aren't that bad, especially when you consider his age.

 

Devers is going to be our new #3 hitter.

[moonslav59]

Nunez sucks defensively at any base, but since we were talking about 3B I used that as my example. As for Devers, I haven't been watching many ST games, but last year he had no concept of the strike zone. Unless he morphs into Vlad Guerrero or that changes he will never reach what many here call his "potential". So far I have seen no evidence of either.

 

We must be watching different games, because I have watched every pitch of every Sox game for years and years.

[moonslav59]

I never stated that you or anyone claimed nunez was a better defender.

 

The debate was who is the better player, sheesh.......

 

I give up.

[SCM33]

Wrong. Devers is going to be a great hitter.

 

Great, yes.....but he has the chance to be more than that. If he ever gets a handle on the strike zone, or learns how to approach at bats......oh boy....everyone forgets. He was 21 last year! He debuted as a 20 year old!!!! Thats unheard of these days. The typical draft pick is 22/23 when then are drafted, then take 1-3 years before they make it to MLB. Think about that. The average prospect is 23-26 years old before he contributes. Devers was contributing before the age he was allowed to buy alcohol.

 

Maybe ...... or maybe not.

 

Or definitely yes.

[moonslav59]

He might look bad in some at-bats, but his overall numbers really aren't that bad, especially when you consider his age.

 

His numbers at ages 20-21 are very good to excellent.

 

672 ABs

 

.254 31 96

 

I'm pumped up on this kid!

[BillyWilliams]

Great, yes.....but he has the chance to be more than that. If he ever gets a handle on the strike zone, or learns how to approach at bats......oh boy....everyone forgets. He was 21 last year! He debuted as a 20 year old!!!! Thats unheard of these days. The typical draft pick is 22/23 when then are drafted, then take 1-3 years before they make it to MLB. Think about that. The average prospect is 23-26 years old before he contributes. Devers was contributing before the age he was allowed to buy alcohol.

 

 

 

Or definitely yes.

 

Or maybe not........

[BillyWilliams]

His numbers at ages 20-21 are very good to excellent.

 

672 ABs

 

.254 31 96

 

I'm pumped up on this kid!

 

I'm not so sure that an OPS of .760 qualifies as very good to excellent.

 

And his OBP last year of .298 needs to improve.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not so sure that an OPS of .760 qualifies as very good to excellent.

 

Plus an .884 OPS in the postseason (51 PA's).

 

It's all small samples at this point, obviously.

[BillyWilliams]

Plus an .884 OPS in the postseason (51 PA's).

 

It's all small samples at this point, obviously.

 

Exactly, SSS.

 

I would think his .760 over almost 700 at bats is more indicative of where he's at right now.

[Slasher9]

[FredLynn]

We must be watching different games, because I have watched every pitch of every Sox game for years and years.

 

I am probably in the 80-90% range (watching games). Thats all I need to see that Devers is not yet mature as a hitter OR as a fielder. He may or may not take the next step. I admit that he has the potential to do so, but so do a lot of players.

[moonslav59]

I'm not so sure that an OPS of .760 qualifies as very good to excellent.

 

And his OBP last year of .298 needs to improve.

 

In terms of age, that's a good start at an age of 22-25, so I'd say it is at least very good to do it at ages 20-21.

 

Not many are even in the bigs at that age, and many are barely in AAA by then.

 

[moonslav59]

I am probably in the 80-90% range (watching games). Thats all I need to see that Devers is not yet mature as a hitter OR as a fielder. He may or may not take the next step. I admit that he has the potential to do so, but so do a lot of players.

 

He's got a long way to go on defense, no doubt. He showed growth his last year in the minors and quite a bit of growth in 2018. Nobody knows, if that will continue going forward, but he's young enough to think there's still time for significant growth.

 

Devers did struggle at the plate for much of 2018, and he missed some time with injuries, but at his age, that is expected. He has over 1 XBH for every 10 ABs over his short MLB career. That makes up for some of the low OBP, but I'm expecting improvement as he plays at age 22.

 

Bogey hit .684 at age 20 and .660 at age 21 before jumping to .776 at age 22. Betts jumped from .812 and .820 to .897 at age 23. Jackie Bradley Jr was in single A at age 21 and was promoted to AA during his age 22 season.

 

He's got the skills and the instincts to be a great hitter. This could be the year, but it may take longer.

 

To me, it's more about when than if.

 

[BillyWilliams]

I see devers booted another ball today......

[BillyWilliams]

In terms of age, that's a good start at an age of 22-25, so I'd say it is at least very good to do it at ages 20-21.

 

Not many are even in the bigs at that age, and many are barely in AAA by then.

 

 

An OBP of .298 is not good at any age...........

Edited March 15, 2019 by BillyWilliams

[Station 13]

I see devers booted another ball today......

 

I see you're still a troll.

[BillyWilliams]

I see you're still a troll.

 

Hardly trolling.

 

I made a comment about devers on the devers thread, which is a lot more than can be said for your post.

[Bellhorn04]

Hardly trolling.

 

I made a comment about devers on the devers thread, which is a lot more than can be said for your post.

 

He's right, that was a troll comment. It had no other purpose.

[Slasher9]

Devers > Andujar by a grip.