Bryce Harper Signs With Phillies

[Northern Star]

Doubt it. He's only hit 40HR once and been over 30 another time in his career. I really don't get the hype for him. Aside from his mvp season he's been nothing special.

 

He's a s***** defender and a terrible baserunner on top of that.

 

And that nets you $330 million. USA! USA!

[Northern Star]

So what's Harper got to play for now? Why worry about a .300 average or 40 HRs when you get paid regardless?

[Youk Of The Nation]

And now we will hear ad nauseam speculation about what kind of contract Mookie should get.

 

25 years, 600 Billion Dollars and he also gets to murder any five people he chooses without repercussions.

[moonslav59]

25 years, 600 Billion Dollars and he also gets to murder any five people he chooses without repercussions.

 

I heard he can submit a list of 10 names, but the Sox choose the five.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I heard he can submit a list of 10 names, but the Sox choose the five.

 

Mookie's agent: It looks to me like they just wrote "Hank Steinbrenner" five times.

[Bellhorn04]

So what's Harper got to play for now? Why worry about a .300 average or 40 HRs when you get paid regardless?

 

I think your cynicism is a little over the top.

 

A lot of players do perform well after they get paid.

 

Even the much maligned Manny Ramirez. He played as well after signing with us as he did before signing with us.

 

A lot of these guys love playing the game and playing it well. It's why they got into it in the first place.

[Kimmi]

25 years, 600 billion dollars and he also gets to murder any five people he chooses without repercussions.

 

lol

[Kimmi]

I think your cynicism is a little over the top.

 

A lot of players do perform well after they get paid.

 

Even the much maligned Manny Ramirez. He played as well after signing with us as he did before signing with us.

 

A lot of these guys love playing the game and playing it well. It's why they got into it in the first place.

 

I agree with this.

 

I don't think that getting a large contract changes the way that a player plays or prepares to play. Most players take great pride in what they do.

[Northern Star]

I think your cynicism is a little over the top.

 

A lot of players do perform well after they get paid.

 

Even the much maligned Manny Ramirez. He played as well after signing with us as he did before signing with us.

 

A lot of these guys love playing the game and playing it well. It's why they got into it in the first place.

 

I'm very cynical because in my view baseball contracts are an inefficient system. Guaranteeing full payment for future performance is a huge risk for the team. Also, as for taking pride in playing the game, etc, there are plenty of players who mysteriously have their best season in their walk year.

[Northern Star]

Harper might continue to play hard; my point is there are no repercussions if he doesn't.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm very cynical because in my view baseball contracts are an inefficient system. Guaranteeing full payment for future performance is a huge risk for the team.

 

So without any term contracts, would all the players be free agents at the end of each year? That'd be fun.

 

And we've talked about some of the issues with paying based on performance. How much would the Red Sox owe Mookie Betts for 2018?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Phillies sell 100,000 tickets within 24 hours of signing Harper, some are saying that is a record for ticket sales.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/phillies-sold-100000-tickets-in-less-than-24-hours-after-signing-bryce-harper-195043717.html

 

This was a great move for the Phillies. 1. With increased ticket sales and the TV contract, the Phillies can afford Harper no problem. 2. Harper makes the Phillies a better team, and should put up big numbers in that park, a middle of the order bat. 3. By signing him for 13 years (he can DH for the last few seasons of the contract, the DH will likely be in the national league by then) Harper will likely wear a Phillies cap in the HOF. He will be associated with the Phillies organization first and foremost, adding to the overall value of the franchise.

 

I could never understand why so many position players want to play with the Yankees. The Yankees have had so many great players over the years, guys like Harper and Machado can't possibly ascend to the top of the Yankees legacy. As great as Harper and Machado are, they will never be as great as Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle, and Berra. They will never be more loved or respected than homegrown players like Jeter and Rivera.

 

In contrast, consider the Phillies legacy. Mike Schmidt (great player, probably better than B.Harper). Steve Carlton. The list isn't nearly as long as the Yankees list, meaning that Harper can retire as a Phillies legend--he can retire as one of the best players to ever don a Phillies uniform. Or consider the Padres legacy. I can't think of another great player besides Tony Gwynn. Machado can retire as one of the greatest Padres to ever don a Padres uniform.

 

 

Thanks for once again displaying your ignorance regarding all things baseball.

 

We shall see what happens when the games begin. Last year during the season when I predicted the Red Sox would pull away from the Yankees and win the division easily, I was called "delusional" by a Yankees fan on this forum. How did that prediction work out, skippy?

Edited March 2, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Youk Of The Nation]

The Phillies sell 100,000 tickets within 24 hours of signing Harper, some are saying that is a record for ticket sales.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/phillies-sold-100000-tickets-in-less-than-24-hours-after-signing-bryce-harper-195043717.html

 

This was a great move for the Phillies. 1. With increased ticket sales and the TV contract, the Phillies can afford Harper no problem. 2. Harper makes the Phillies a better team, and should put up big numbers in that park, a middle of the order bat. 3. By signing him for 13 years (he can DH for the last few seasons of the contract, the DH will likely be in the national league by then) Harper will likely wear a Phillies cap in the HOF. He will be associated with the Phillies organization first and foremost, adding to the overall value of the franchise.

 

I could never understand why so many position players want to play with the Yankees. The Yankees have had so many great players over the years, guys like Harper and Machado can't possibly ascend to the top of the Yankees legacy. As great as Harper and Machado are, they will never be as great as Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle, and Berra. They will never be more loved or respected than homegrown players like Jeter and Rivera.

 

In contrast, consider the Phillies legacy. Mike Schmidt (great player, probably better than B.Harper). Steve Carlton. The list isn't nearly as long as the Yankees list, meaning that Harper can retire as a Phillies legend--he can retire as one of the best players to ever don a Phillies uniform. Or consider the Padres legacy. I can't think of another great player besides Tony Gwynn. Machado can retire as one of the greatest Padres to ever don a Padres uniform.

 

 

 

 

We shall see what happens when the games begin. Last year during the season when I predicted the Red Sox would pull away from the Yankees and win the division easily, I was called "delusional" by a Yankees fan on this forum. How did that prediction work out, skippy?

 

You're making a couple of assumptions here.

 

1. That Harper will play the entire contract in Philly. How many 10+ year contracts have ended with the player still on that team? A-Rod signed two different 10 year contracts with two different teams, neither of which was played to completion. Robinson Cano signed a 10-year contract with the Mariners and didn't even play half of it. Albert Pujols will have to make it to 2022 to fulfill his contract. He could opt out, be traded due to mediocre performance or financial decisions, or be injured.

 

2. That Harper will go into the HOF. I agree he's on pace to, if he keeps up his level of play for long enough, but who knows what's going to happen? There have been plenty of guys whose first three or four seasons were HOF-caliber who just fizzled. You're talking about this guy like he's a mortal lock to be a legendary player. He's very good but it's early to start anointing him a Phillies legend wearing their cap in the HOF. He hasn't even played a game for them yet.

[Bellhorn04]

The 100,000 tickets is impressive though. It does demonstrate the box-office aspect of some of these deals.

[dgalehouse]

What some people always fail to realize is that sports is a part of the entertainment industry. You have to attract much more than just the hard core fans who pore over analytics or post on baseball forums . You have to get the casual fan excited and eager to spend their money to watch the team . The casual fan is not at all interested in luxury taxes , resets , fWAR , etc . They want a reason to go to the ballpark or watch on TV . They will pay for a Bryce Harper jersey . The trouble with MLB today is that too many owners do not want to spend the money to put an exciting product on the field . This is not good for the game . Baseball has a lot of competition for the entertainment dollar. I say good for the Phillies. Don't worry that they might regret it down the road . They know that .

[notin]

What some people always fail to realize is that sports is a part of the entertainment industry. You have to attract much more than just the hard core fans who pore over analytics or post on baseball forums . You have to get the casual fan excited and eager to spend their money to watch the team . The casual fan is not at all interested in luxury taxes , resets , fWAR , etc . They want a reason to go to the ballpark or watch on TV . They will pay for a Bryce Harper jersey . The trouble with MLB today is that too many owners do not want to spend the money to put an exciting product on the field . This is not good for the game . Baseball has a lot of competition for the entertainment dollar. I say good for the Phillies. Don't worry that they might regret it down the road . They know that .

 

 

So you’re saying that the owners are being too cheap about their product because they are blatantly refusing to ignore future implications of their bad moves?

 

Saying the casual fan is not interested in fWAR, luxury taxes, etc. is like saying cake enthusiasts are not excited about flour, frosting, eggs, etc. The casual fan wants a winning team, and if heeding fWAR, luxury taxes, etc. are key ingredients, the casual fan will embrace them...

Edited March 3, 2019 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

So you’re saying that the owners are being too cheap about their product because they are blatantly refusing to ignore future implications of their bad moves?

 

He didn't say that, of course. He said too many owners don't want to spend the money. It's certainly possible that there are owners who are more interested in making profits and capital gains than they are in providing a winning team.

 

At the same time that doesn't mean it's smart to just sign every splashy free agent you can, obviously.

 

But let's not oversimplify the issues and make everything pure black and white. There's plenty in between.

[dgalehouse]

So you’re saying that the owners are being too cheap about their product because they are blatantly refusing to ignore future implications of their bad moves?

 

Saying the casual fan is not interested in fWAR, luxury taxes, etc. is like saying cake enthusiasts are not excited about flour, frosting, eggs, etc. The casual fan wants a winning team, and if heeding fWAR, luxury taxes, etc. are key ingredients, the casual fan will embrace them...

 

You just don't get it. The buzz around Philly today is Bryce Harper . People are buying tickets and jerseys . They could care less about resets and such . Everyone does not look at it the way you do . As for the ( weak ) cake anology; too many owners are scrimping on the ingredients. The cake sucks and nobody wants to eat it . You will see the empty seats in many of these ballparks as the season plays out . MLB should be marketing the off season free agency period as a fun , competitive and exciting time . Instead , it has become boring at best , and aggravating, divisive and contentious at worst . Not at all good for the game . A tip of the cap to Philly .

[notin]

Actually I think you’re not getting it. Teams are still paying. Some of these salaries even for the non-superstars are outrageous. Yasmani Grandal, for example, is making $18mill next year. That makes him the second highest annual salary in the history of the Brewers (I believe only Ryan Braun made more). The players just aren’t getting the years they want, because history has shown that rarely works out and teams don’t want to be penalized tomorrow for today’s mistake. The Sox didn’t get a closer and that they are still paying Pablo Sandoval is a big part of that. Heck, Carl Crawford’s deal only ended in 17 months ago.

 

Fans might not like it, but a lot of teams are dividing up well over $100mil among 25 employees. That’s not really being cheap. The difference, now if you’re 30, you’re not going to get paid until you’re 35 or 36. If youre26, teams will be willing to put up with 4 or 5 bad years to get 5 to 8 stellar ones. But at some point, Philly won’t like that Harper deal. The length of that contract is 50% of his life, and this guy was a strong parallel for Grady Sizemore to date. Can you imagine giving Grady Sizemore 13 years after HE turned 26 in 2009? He played 313 games over the rest of his career and that contract wouldn’t be over for 4 more years...

[dgalehouse]

Harper represents star power . That is important in the sports / entertainment industry. How many tickets , how many jerseys did Sizemore sell ? Philly will probably wind up not getting all their money's worth by the time the deal ends . But being aggressive is good for business here . And good for the game . There could well be an exciting race between four teams in the N.L. East this year . Isn't that better than playing an entire season just to see who gets the ( bogus ) second wild card ?

[notin]

Harper represents star power . That is important in the sports / entertainment industry. How many tickets , how many jerseys did Sizemore sell ? Philly will probably wind up not getting all their money's worth by the time the deal ends . But being aggressive is good for business here . And good for the game . There could well be an exciting race between four teams in the N.L. East this year . Isn't that better than playing an entire season just to see who gets the ( bogus ) second wild card ?

 

 

Nothing sells more tickets than winning. Isn’t that what it’s all about?

 

 

I’m not counting Machado, Arenado and Harper, since they all just signed. But if you look at the 10 largest contracts in MLB history before this off-season, they have resulted in TWO CHAMPIONSHIPS. One was A-Rod in 2009, the other was Price in 2017. Now plenty of these deals have not finished, but I don’t think that number is going up by much. (And hopefully all by Price.)

 

The reason these teams don’t sign star players is the risk. If the star doesn’t carry you to a title or two early in the deal, chances are he will follow that up by dragging your team down late in the deal.

 

Sometimes it comes down to a simple choice - do you want a star player or do you want to win?

 

If you don’t like Harper vs Sizemore, that is what the Pillies bought. Harper has a better Q factor for name recognition and for TV commercials but that doesn’t make his baseball any better and isn’t going to translate to more wins for Philly. Unless you count a win in the war against dandruff...

Edited March 3, 2019 by notin

[Kimmi]

Harper represents star power . That is important in the sports / entertainment industry. How many tickets , how many jerseys did Sizemore sell ? Philly will probably wind up not getting all their money's worth by the time the deal ends . But being aggressive is good for business here . And good for the game . There could well be an exciting race between four teams in the N.L. East this year . Isn't that better than playing an entire season just to see who gets the ( bogus ) second wild card ?

 

Lucchino's downfall - Trying to build a team based off of what splashy signing would put fans in the seats versus who would give the team the most wins.

 

Signing someone like Harper might work for a little while, but it will get old fast.

 

Winning is what keeps fans in the seats.

[Kimmi]

Nothing sells more tickets than winning. Isn’t that what it’s all about?

 

 

I’m not counting Machado, Arenado and Harper, since they all just signed. But if you look at the 10 largest contracts in MLB history before this off-season, they have resulted in TWO CHAMPIONSHIPS. One was A-Rod in 2009, the other was Price in 2017. Now plenty of these deals have not finished, but I don’t think that number is going up by much. (And hopefully all by Price.)

 

The reason these teams don’t sign star players is the risk. If the star doesn’t carry you to a title or two early in the deal, chances are he will follow that up by dragging your team down late in the deal.

 

Sometimes it comes down to a simple choice - do you want a star player or do you want to win?

If you don’t like Harper vs Sizemore, that is what the Pillies bought. Harper has a better Q factor for name recognition and for TV commercials but that doesn’t make his baseball any better and isn’t going to translate to more wins for Philly. Unless you count a win in the war against dandruff...

 

Ding Ding Ding Ding

[dgalehouse]

In the first place , I am sure that the Phils want to win . How does Harper hurt in that area ? How about the 100,000 tickets sold ? Does that count for anything ? It is some of the other teams that don't seem to care much about winning . And they are hurting the sport . That is my whole point . Look , if you are trying to make a living , pay the bills , put food on the table and maybe build a little nest egg , you have to be careful with spending . Maybe bargain shop , pinch pennies and clip coupons . But if you are a billionaire owner of an MLB franchise , that is not acceptable behavior . You are in the big time . Act like it . These guys are happy to take the revenue sharing check and still put a mediocre team on the field . It defeats the whole purpose of revenue sharing . And the result is a disinterested fan base . The last two off seasons have been an embarrassment . The lousy teams are an embarrassment . And the empty seats are a bigger embarrassment . Please don't tell me it is because the G.M. s are smart . It is the not that at all . Kudos to the Padres and Phillies for having the guts to take a risk .

[notin]

In the first place , I am sure that the Phils want to win . How does Harper hurt in that area ? How about the 100,000 tickets sold ? Does that count for anything ? It is some of the other teams that don't seem to care much about winning . And they are hurting the sport . That is my whole point . Look , if you are trying to make a living , pay the bills , put food on the table and maybe build a little nest egg , you have to be careful with spending . Maybe bargain shop , pinch pennies and clip coupons . But if you are a billionaire owner of an MLB franchise , that is not acceptable behavior . You are in the big time . Act like it . These guys are happy to take the revenue sharing check and still put a mediocre team on the field . It defeats the whole purpose of revenue sharing . And the result is a disinterested fan base . The last two off seasons have been an embarrassment . The lousy teams are an embarrassment . And the empty seats are a bigger embarrassment . Please don't tell me it is because the G.M. s are smart . It is the not that at all . Kudos to the Padres and Phillies for having the guts to take a risk .

 

 

Oh please. Yes you’re very generous with your accolades for other teams signing free agents and spending money . But with Boston - it has to work out and translate into wins. Or do you suddenly have some appreciation for Ben Cherington now? After all, when he signed Hanley and Sandoval, was he or wasn’t he trying to win?

[Northern Star]

So you’re saying that the owners are being too cheap about their product because they are blatantly refusing to ignore future implications of their bad moves?

 

Saying the casual fan is not interested in fWAR, luxury taxes, etc. is like saying cake enthusiasts are not excited about flour, frosting, eggs, etc. The casual fan wants a winning team, and if heeding fWAR, luxury taxes, etc. are key ingredients, the casual fan will embrace them...

 

I'm not taking sides in what seems to have developed into an argument, but a casual fan is casual for a reason - they don't care about this s*** enough to learn it. Why should they?

[Northern Star]

So you dish out the biggest contract ever, then the guy can't even get the city right in his press conference appearance. Classic.

[dgalehouse]

Oh please. Yes you’re very generous with your accolades for other teams signing free agents and spending money . But with Boston - it has to work out and translate into wins. Or do you suddenly have some appreciation for Ben Cherington now? After all, when he signed Hanley and Sandoval, was he or wasn’t he trying to win?

 

It is ridiculous trying to come up with examples of bad investments . Of course mistakes are made . That doesn't give owners an excuse to not try to win . Cherington was trying to win . He didn't win . He got replaced . End of story . It has nothing to do with what is taking place lately . If you can't see it , there is nothing else to say .

[notin]

It is ridiculous trying to come up with examples of bad investments . Of course mistakes are made . That doesn't give owners an excuse to not try to win . Cherington was trying to win . He didn't win . He got replaced . End of story . It has nothing to do with what is taking place lately . If you can't see it , there is nothing else to say .

 

 

But how much of these boring offseasons is from owners deciding to pocket money as opposed to GMs holding back to make better baseball decisions?

 

We’re used to offseasons where the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs and Giants spend like drunken sailors. None of those teams were heavily involved in free agency this year. The Dodgers and Giants made an attempt at Harper and the Dodgers signed Oollock and brought back Kershaw. But beyond that, those teams were silent, but not because they’re pocketing revenue-sharing.

 

But without those teams, it magnifies the lack of activity from the rest of the league, which in many cases is consistent with most offseasons.

 

Teams act like this in other sports all the time, and really always have in baseball. Why is it a problem now? The big problem comes from Boston, the Yankees, the Dodgers, the Cubs and the Nationals producing good young, cost-controlled major leaguers and not needing free agency. And that they all did it at once just made it look so much worse...

[Slasher9]

phillies phans are as phickle as they come. especially with baseball. the moment the phils lose 5 in a row all the interest will go right back to the Eagles. it's a football town.

followed by football, then football, football, football, basketball, then.......baseball.

this signing was not about winning. it was about selling Harper jerseys to teenage girls. end of story.