What would a Betts extension be?

[moonslav59]

I don't want to attack you, but no player is worth that money. I think we are overrating him a little, due to the fact he is a home grown talent.

 

Something to think about, his postseason numbers are poor. Why can't we sign a player 75% of his season output, win 6/7 games less a year, but maybe perform better in the playoffs due to the fact that Betts almost contributes nothing in the postseason?

 

The Patriots apply this mentality every year, and win every year. At some point, the dollar value outweighs the output value for a position. All factors need to be considered.

 

He's got 99 career playoff PAs. I'm not worried about that one bit. Plus, that HR he robbed was worth 100 points on his OPS by itself.

[SCM33]

Sorry for the double post, but something else to think about.....

 

For the money they would pay Betts......

 

They could probably get 10-11 wins from a SP FA signing.

They could sign a couple roster fillers.

They could sign bullpen help.

They could sign someone to produce half of what Betts is producing, while possibly improving other areas of the team.

 

He is a great player. He is not worth that money. No player is, look for other options to improve the team.

 

Mookie Betts is not going to be here for the long haul, we need to accept this as fact now. They will not pay him at the expense of the rest of the team. Especially with the other talent (Bogaerts, Betts, Bradley, Benintendi etc.) coming to the ends of their rookie deals.

[Bellhorn04]

Sorry for the double post, but something else to think about.....

 

For the money they would pay Betts......

 

They could probably get 10-11 wins from a SP FA signing.

They could sign a couple roster fillers.

They could sign bullpen help.

They could sign someone to produce half of what Betts is producing, while possibly improving other areas of the team.

 

He is a great player. He is not worth that money. No player is, look for other options to improve the team.

 

Mookie Betts is not going to be here for the long haul, we need to accept this as fact now. They will not pay him at the expense of the rest of the team. Especially with the other talent (Bogaerts, Betts, Bradley, Benintendi etc.) coming to the ends of their rookie deals.

 

All of your posts about Mookie are pure unadulterated nonsense.

[S5Dewey]

How did this thread turn into a bashing of Mookie Betts? Mookie has done exactly what most of us say we want the players to do, go out, play the game, look like they're having fun, and stay out of the media.

 

Mookie hasn't gushed about being in Boston, neither has he shown any indication that he isn't happy here. He hasn't publicly groused about his pay in spite of being one of the best players in baseball. Even during his arbitration case (which he won) he was publicly silent and let the process work itself out. Now we're seeing posted assumptions that he doesn't like it here in Boston or he's "all about the money".

 

No wonder Boston has a reputation that it's a hard place to play in.

[mvp 78]

All of your posts about Mookie are pure unadulterated nonsense.

 

It's ok, he'll stop posting in a few days and we won't hear from him for another 6 months.

[Bellhorn04]

How did this thread turn into a bashing of Mookie Betts? Mookie has done exactly what most of us say we want the players to do, go out, play the game, look like they're having fun, and stay out of the media.

 

Mookie hasn't gushed about being in Boston, neither has he shown any indication that he isn't happy here. He hasn't publicly groused about his pay in spite of being one of the best players in baseball. Even during his arbitration case (which he won) he was publicly silent and let the process work itself out. Now we're seeing posted assumptions that he doesn't like it here in Boston or he's "all about the money".

 

No wonder Boston has a reputation that it's a hard place to play in.

 

Agreed. Mookie has done nothing to warrant any criticism.

[notin]

Sorry for the double post, but something else to think about.....

 

For the money they would pay Betts......

 

They could probably get 10-11 wins from a SP FA signing.

They could sign a couple roster fillers.

They could sign bullpen help.

They could sign someone to produce half of what Betts is producing, while possibly improving other areas of the team.

 

 

I’d rather have Betts than all of that mediocrity combined.

 

Whether you like fWAR or not, it’s a good way to discuss the impact of a player.

 

Betts is worth about 8 wins per season.

 

A player giving half of that - about 4 wins per season - is going to cost half of that Betts. Betts has been worth 24 fWAR in the past 3 years. Lorenzo Cain has been worth 12. Cain costs $16mill AAV last year, alittlr under half of Betts’ guesstimated salary.

 

A 10/11 win pitcher is a little vague, but a value of 2.7 fWAR is a good estimate if he throws about 180 IP. Mike Leake (also $16mill AAV) is a good example here

 

Roll fillers are cheap and provide little if any value. Brock Holt is probably one of the most valuable, giving a ful win above replacement annually. His pre-arb salary is low and his FA cost is TBD. Let’s say it’s $5mill AAV.

 

Bullpen help is nice, but costly on the free agent market. Cody Allen just got $8mill and looks like a bargain (that’s setup reliever money nowadays). He’s picallly worth about 1 fWAR per season.

 

So if it comes down to spending $35mill for Betts and 8fWAR or $45mill for Cain, Allen, Leake and Holt and getting 8.7 fWAR, which looks like the better deal? I think the Sox can make up the extra 0.7 fWAR with $10mill.

 

Now Betts does carry other concerns like length of deal, injuries, drop in production, etc. inherent to putting all your eggs in one basket. But I still take him in that case...

[BillyWilliams]

I could see the Yanks offering him $350M/10, but him taking $335M/10 from the Sox, of something like that.

 

And I could see the sox offering $335/10 and the Yankees offering $350/10 and him taking the Yankees offer, or something like that..........

[SCM33]

It's ok, he'll stop posting in a few days and we won't hear from him for another 6 months.

 

More like a year.

[mvp 78]

More like a year.

 

True.

[SCM33]

All of your posts about Mookie are pure unadulterated nonsense.

It’s either that, or I’ve already come to terms with the fact he isn’t signing a long term contract here.

I wish he would sign, but I just don’t see it happening.

[dgalehouse]

How did this thread turn into a bashing of Mookie Betts? Mookie has done exactly what most of us say we want the players to do, go out, play the game, look like they're having fun, and stay out of the media.

 

Mookie hasn't gushed about being in Boston, neither has he shown any indication that he isn't happy here. He hasn't publicly groused about his pay in spite of being one of the best players in baseball. Even during his arbitration case (which he won) he was publicly silent and let the process work itself out. Now we're seeing posted assumptions that he doesn't like it here in Boston or he's "all about the money".

 

No wonder Boston has a reputation that it's a hard place to play in.

If you play for the Boston Red Sox , you can be sure that at some point , some of the " Greatest fans in the world " will turn on you . And it doesn't matter how much you have contributed to the success of the team or what kind of guy that you are . There will always be haters .

[BillyWilliams]

If you play for the Boston Red Sox , you can be sure that at some point , some of the " Greatest fans in the world " will turn on you . And it doesn't matter how much you have contributed to the success of the team or what kind of guy that you are . There will always be haters .

 

Yankees fans don't turn on sox players, we've always hated them!

[Bellhorn04]

It’s either that, or I’ve already come to terms with the fact he isn’t signing a long term contract here.

I wish he would sign, but I just don’t see it happening.

 

It's too early to think that way. I have faith that Henry and DD will make him a strong offer.

[notin]

It's ok, he'll stop posting in a few days and we won't hear from him for another 6 months.

 

 

You hate everybody. That’s what I like about you...

[mvp 78]

You hate everybody. That’s what I like about you...

 

I don't hate anybody. I just don't take this place as seriously as most others. It's all in good fun.

[notin]

I don't hate anybody. I just don't take this place as seriously as most others. It's all in good fun.

 

 

Well then, if you don’t hate anybody I think I like you a lot less

 

[BillyWilliams]

It's too early to think that way. I have faith that Henry and DD will make him a strong offer.

 

What makes you think that?

[mvp 78]

What makes you think that?

 

Why do you think they wouldn't make a strong offer?

[Kimmi]

Brag about being paid $330million...

 

Exactly.

 

I've always said it was an ego thing.

[Kimmi]

He wont. There have been many opportunities to come up with a long term resolution. He is interested in getting paid.

 

Yes, unfortunately, that seems to be the case.

 

I really hope there's a way for the Sox to keep him without breaking the bank, but I can't see it.

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly.

 

I've always said it was an ego thing.

 

I think there are also some outside pressures not to leave money on the table, from family, friends, agent and union.

[Kimmi]

All of your posts about Mookie are pure unadulterated nonsense.

 

And here I thought SCM33 was making a lot of sense.

[Kimmi]

How did this thread turn into a bashing of Mookie Betts? Mookie has done exactly what most of us say we want the players to do, go out, play the game, look like they're having fun, and stay out of the media.

 

Mookie hasn't gushed about being in Boston, neither has he shown any indication that he isn't happy here. He hasn't publicly groused about his pay in spite of being one of the best players in baseball. Even during his arbitration case (which he won) he was publicly silent and let the process work itself out. Now we're seeing posted assumptions that he doesn't like it here in Boston or he's "all about the money".

 

No wonder Boston has a reputation that it's a hard place to play in.

 

I don't think anyone is trying to bash Mookie. At least I'm not.

 

I just would not sign him to a Harper like contract.

[Bellhorn04]

And here I thought SCM33 was making a lot of sense.

 

Did you read all his posts?

[Kimmi]

Agreed. Mookie has done nothing to warrant any criticism.

 

I think it's fair to point out that he appears to be all about the money.

 

That may be his right, and he may deserve to go for the most money, but I don't have to like.

[Kimmi]

I think there are also some outside pressures not to leave money on the table, from family, friends, agent and union.

 

From agent and union, I would agree.

 

From family and friends, I tend to agree less.

[Bellhorn04]

I think it's fair to point out that he appears to be all about the money.

 

That may be his right, and he may deserve to go for the most money, but I don't have to like.

 

I don't understand the thinking that he's all about the money because he hasn't signed an extension yet. Any comments of his I've read just seemed level-headed to me.

[SCM33]

It's ok, he'll stop posting in a few days and we won't hear from him for another 6 months.

 

More like a year.

 

True.

 

You hate everybody. That’s what I like about you...

 

I don't hate anybody. I just don't take this place as seriously as most others. It's all in good fun.

 

Well then, if you don’t hate anybody I think I like you a lot less

 

 

MVP and I do this everytime I come back and make a bunch of posts. I wish I had more time to post, I just dont. I lurk often.

[SCM33]

Did you read all his posts?

 

What is so crazy about my posts?

 

You are crazy to think that we are going to pay the guy. Benny, Bogaerts, Betts and Bradley are all up soon. You think they will pay 1 player all that money at the expense of everyone else when we already have the highest payroll in baseball (by far)???

 

Talk about crazy. He is gone, better to accept it now.

 

Want proof? We dont have a closer this year because they arent willing to go much further in terms of payroll. Instead, we have the always doomed "closer by committee" this year.

Edited March 8, 2019 by SCM33