A Realistic View at 2019: Part I

[Kimmi]

Only about 2.5 months. We'll get through it.

 

It's a lot easier to get through as World Series Champs.

 

Thanks Dave!

[Kimmi]

Think how different the conversation would be had we not won the World Series. Yikes.

 

This is so much better. Now we're only worried about repeating in 2019 (and wouldn't jump off a cliff if we come up short). Sucks to be a Yankee fan. Things maybe looking up. But can they win it all? Pressure is all on them.

 

Ha. Great minds.

 

It's great to be a Red Sox fan.

[Kimmi]

Despite all of the success in recent years , many Sox fans have never quite gotten over the past disappointments and the whole " Curse of the Bambino " thing. It is deeply ingrained. They are always waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop. Even this past year , as the post season progressed towards yet another championship, some were constantly freaking out over every misstep. I don't see this changing any time soon. For example; look at the impending " cliff " paranoia.

 

The cliff has nothing to do with the current state of the team, or the ability to enjoy the current season.

[Kimmi]

It's terrible. I mean - since the advent of player employment freedom (which made team building much harder than it was in the olde days) there has been only one team (Yankees 1994-2009) that has had a better 15 year run than this current Red Sox era.

 

I will not be dishonest and say I don't care about the Yankees at all ... but I take very little solace in their losing. (2003 the only exception) I think of them very little relative to say, are the Red Sox winning.

 

This is a great time to be a Red Sox fan, no doubt.

 

That said, I take great solace in the Yankees losing.

[Dojji]

This is a great time to be a Red Sox fan, no doubt.

 

That said, I take great solace in the Yankees losing.

 

I only care when it's us that beat them.

 

That said, that's another reason 2018 was freaking sweet. The way we rolled right on through a 100 win Yankee team and took no prisoners. That would have been something to hold onto even if the World Series had gone the other way.

 

Little fun fact: that's the first time since 2004 that we met in the playoffs, do you realize that?

 

Another fun fact: The Yankees haven't beaten us in a playoff series in 15 years. There are adult Yankee fans who only have 2003 to hang their hats on in terms of the Rivalry.

 

For the record: I can understand why they wanted Boston. Their team was very good, and who wouldn't want another chapter of the Rivalry? And that was an very fun series -- for us.

 

Hey Yankees, let's have another rematch real soon, eh?

Edited November 24, 2018 by Dojji

[Bellhorn04]

As far as the cliff goes, one thing that's working against us, so to speak, is that we have a team that has a chance to win at least one more championship. If that wasn't the case, we might be looking to do things like trade JBJ for prospects. That's often how farms are rebuilt.

[notin]

As far as the cliff goes, one thing that's working against us, so to speak, is that we have a team that has a chance to win at least one more championship. If that wasn't the case, we might be looking to do things like trade JBJ for prospects. That's often how farms are rebuilt.

 

If you look a the Yankees in the late 1990s, that’s exactly what they did. Everyone remembers the Core Four, but the rest of that team could have been called The Revolving Door. Out with David Wells. In with Clemens. Out with Boggs. In with Brosius. Wetter and out. Rivera steps up.

 

DD might be as old with this Sox team, but I’d be surprised. I think I’d be angrier if he did start breaking it up.

[Bellhorn04]

You sure about that? Talk to a Cubs’ fan. They have this weird list of all the cursed activities, one of which actually includes a black cat.

 

And I’ve really heard them blame everything on the Curse. “Well how else do you explain Leon Durham missing that ground all in 1984?”

 

Umm ...because Durham was a s***** fielder?

 

I'll take on any Cubs fan in a matchup of Blunder vs. Blunder, Mind-Blower vs. Mind-Blower and Weird s*** vs. Weird s***, and leave them kneeling in the dust.

[moonslav59]

The “cliff” is what DD makes of it. If he keep trying to prop this window open, it’ll be a hill with a huge bottom. If he re-sets and rebuilds, it’ll be a cliff with a shorter down phase.

 

Here’s my prediction for what it’s worth. 2019 will be a playoff season with World Series type talent level. After 2019, the Sox will be weaker as they’ll have to pick and choose which big FAs they keep. 2020 will be a playoff year, but a clear downturn compared to 2019....

 

A lot depends on how much DD can spend in 2020. If Henry allows one more year within the window, we can probably stay a top 4 contender in 2020. To me, 2021 is the moment of a sharp downturn.

[notin]

I'll take on any Cubs fan in a matchup of Blunder vs. Blunder, Mind-Blower vs. Mind-Blower and Weird s*** vs. Weird s***, and leave them kneeling in the dust.

 

 

They do have two books detailing their whining ...

[notin]

The fear of an impending cliff is not being realistic in my view. We can stay on or near the top with a combination of spending , trades , acquisitions and whatever we are able to harvest from the farm. This just further convinces me that many fans are always looking for something bad to happen. The playoff paranoia was very apparent . So is the worry about the future.

 

The Cliff Paranoia isn’t about being negative, and it seems to me anyone who acknowledges it is suddenly harassed for not openly fellating Dombrowski.

 

The talk of the Cliff is just about acknowledging it’s existence and hoping DD reacts accordingly. But it’s not going to be easy and he’s probably not going to be able to keep everyone and getting replacements via trade is also tough with no farm...

[Bellhorn04]

The Cliff Paranoia isn’t about being negative, and it seems to me anyone who acknowledges it is suddenly harassed for not openly fellating Dombrowski.

 

Well, I think you're oversimplifying a tad.

 

Some of the Cliff stuff has clearly been negative about Dombrowski's team-building approach.

[moonslav59]

I'm glad DD sacrificed some of the future to win it all. It worked.

 

The ring vindicates it all, but it doesn't erase the effects all his moves will have down the road.

 

Yes, some felt he went too far. I was critical of a few moves and loved others. All his moves were designed to build the best team possible for a 4-5 year window. That's a pretty long window, and I am extremely happy for that, but the window was always going to close. The question is when, how much and for how long.

 

To me, it's all about when (not if) we re-set the luxury tax. If I'm wrong about resetting at some point, then great! It's only my opinion, but I am pretty certain Henry prioritizes a re-set by 2021. He may even re-set for 2020, depending how things look after 2019, but I think keeping the window open for one more year (at max tax rates) willbe too appealing to give up.

 

There's no hard feeling here. There's no lamenting or crying about an upcoming 1 or 2 year low point. I expected it. I praised the overall plan. What's not to like about 5 straight years of high competitiveness? If we end up with just one ring, it was all worth it, but 2 or 3 would be awesome!

 

[Bellhorn04]

FYI , The collector's edition of the Red Sox championship season DVD or BluRay box set will be available on Amazon on Dec. 4 . If you want to spend a little less , the World Series DVD will be out on that date also. They can be pre-ordered now.

 

The one I saw has the 5 World Series games, Game 5 of the ALCS and Game 4 of the ALDS.

[dgalehouse]

The worry over an impending cliff is just a lingering symptom of the strange malady known as " Cherington nostalgia ". The afflicted are in denial that they cannot completely recover from this.

[dgalehouse]

The one I saw has the 5 World Series games, Game 5 of the ALCS and Game 4 of the ALDS.

 

Right. Probably a few extras as well. Well worth the price.

[Bellhorn04]

The worry over an impending cliff is just a lingering symptom of the strange malady known as " Cherington nostalgia ". The afflicted are in denial that they cannot completely recover from this.

 

I can't really agree with that either. We are going to be losing a lot of key players within the next couple of years, that's virtually a fact. It remains to be seen how the front office deals with it all.

[notin]

The worry over an impending cliff is just a lingering symptom of the strange malady known as " Cherington nostalgia ". The afflicted are in denial that they cannot completely recover from this.

 

Hey Bellhorm, I’m the one oversimplifying a tad?

 

Like I said, any criticism of any aspect of DD - whom I was critical of at time of hire but I’ve reversed on - and suddenly there are too many who look to discredit or disparage you...

[dgalehouse]

Hey Bellhorm, I’m the one oversimplifying a tad?

 

Like I said, any criticism of any aspect of DD - whom I was critical of at time of hire but I’ve reversed on - and suddenly there are too many who look to discredit or disparage you...

 

The first step in overcoming Cherington nostalgia is admitting that you have it.

[notin]

The first step in overcoming Cherington nostalgia is admitting that you have it.

 

Way to counter my point DH by directly supporting it...

[cp176]

Hey Bellhorm, I’m the one oversimplifying a tad?

 

Like I said, any criticism of any aspect of DD - whom I was critical of at time of hire but I’ve reversed on - and suddenly there are too many who look to discredit or disparage you...

 

 

Come on notin. Lighten up. You get to feel any way and say anything that you wish with respect to a discussion of DD.

[dgalehouse]

Cherington nostalgia is understandable. You can't blame those who are afflicted with it. After all , Dombrowski decimated the farm. He traded away a bushel load of blue chip prospects who represented our future. All for the short lived satisfaction of a few great teams. Ben Cherington, on the other hand , despite his numerous dismal failures , had long range vision and a plan for great success somewhere down the road. A wonderful and sustainable future filled with seashells and balloons. A future totally devoid of cliffs.

[moonslav59]

I'm not ashamed to defend a GM who got us a ring AND built a top 3 farm system in the process.

 

He also cleaned up the Beckett/CC mess, brought in Uehara and set up DD for what we see today.

 

Ben clearly made some big blunders, whether or not he was the mastermind behind them.

 

DD took a different route and got us a ring.

 

I'm happy with celebrating both GMs. It doesn't have to be one vs the other.

[cp176]

I'm not ashamed to defend a GM who got us a ring AND built a top 3 farm system in the process.

 

He also cleaned up the Beckett/CC mess, brought in Uehara and set up DD for what we see today.

 

Ben clearly made some big blunders, whether or not he was the mastermind behind them.

 

DD took a different route and got us a ring.

 

I'm happy with celebrating both GMs. It doesn't have to be one vs the other.

 

I think that you have the right approach here. I know that I might be seen as a huge fan of DD"s. I'm a fan of anyone working for the Red Sox for the most part. I did like the fact that his reputation preceded him. My primary gripe about what gets said is that some seem to already have him pegged as a farm destroyer or maybe even someone who cannot build a bullpen, or whatever. Personally I do not care what it looks like to some with respect to what he has done in the past. I know all of the comebacks that could be said here thus it would be a waste of time to present all of the issues once again. He has been and hopefully will continue to be one of the best in the business. Obviously there are going to be some hurdles to clear if the Sox are going to continue to compete year after year. We are lucky to have someone competent in all phases of the game leading the way.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox fans are a lucky bunch indeed these days.

 

We're leading the way in the 21st century with 4 titles, after all.

[cp176]

Red Sox fans are a lucky bunch indeed these days.

 

We're leading the way in the 21st century with 4 titles, after all.

 

It is a wonderful time to be a Red Sox fan. I have many fairly important things that I spend too much time worrying about (worry = a wasted emotion by the way). One of my worries will not be who we can sign, when and if we can sign them, or whether JH wants to spend his money on this team or not. It is all good stuff to talk about, I just have no interest in being critical of anyone who sees things differently. A lot of good things could happen over the next few years believe it or not as well as all the worrisome junk we hear so much about.

[Kimmi]

The fear of an impending cliff is not being realistic in my view. We can stay on or near the top with a combination of spending , trades , acquisitions and whatever we are able to harvest from the farm. This just further convinces me that many fans are always looking for something bad to happen. The playoff paranoia was very apparent . So is the worry about the future.

 

Actually, I'm always looking for something good to happen.

[moonslav59]

I think that you have the right approach here. I know that I might be seen as a huge fan of DD"s. I'm a fan of anyone working for the Red Sox for the most part. I did like the fact that his reputation preceded him. My primary gripe about what gets said is that some seem to already have him pegged as a farm destroyer or maybe even someone who cannot build a bullpen, or whatever. Personally I do not care what it looks like to some with respect to what he has done in the past. I know all of the comebacks that could be said here thus it would be a waste of time to present all of the issues once again. He has been and hopefully will continue to be one of the best in the business. Obviously there are going to be some hurdles to clear if the Sox are going to continue to compete year after year. We are lucky to have someone competent in all phases of the game leading the way.

 

Well said. I'm glad DDis at the helm right now, and I hope we can see some farm growth real soon. We have a few promising prospects that could move up. We could use a hit on an international signing, soo. It's been a while.

[Kimmi]

I only care when it's us that beat them.

 

That said, that's another reason 2018 was freaking sweet. The way we rolled right on through a 100 win Yankee team and took no prisoners. That would have been something to hold onto even if the World Series had gone the other way.

 

Little fun fact: that's the first time since 2004 that we met in the playoffs, do you realize that?

 

Another fun fact: The Yankees haven't beaten us in a playoff series in 15 years. There are adult Yankee fans who only have 2003 to hang their hats on in terms of the Rivalry.

 

For the record: I can understand why they wanted Boston. Their team was very good, and who wouldn't want another chapter of the Rivalry? And that was an very fun series -- for us.

 

Hey Yankees, let's have another rematch real soon, eh?

 

This year was sweet, indeed. Anytime we can beat the Yankees enroute to a championship it's all that much sweeter.

 

The Yankees fans wanted Boston because there alternative was to go home. LOL

[Kimmi]

The Cliff Paranoia isn’t about being negative, and it seems to me anyone who acknowledges it is suddenly harassed for not openly fellating Dombrowski.

 

The talk of the Cliff is just about acknowledging it’s existence and hoping DD reacts accordingly. But it’s not going to be easy and he’s probably not going to be able to keep everyone and getting replacements via trade is also tough with no farm...

 

Amen, brother Notin.