Where does Ian Kinsler rank in Red Sox infamy?

[vegasbob]

Buckner was also completely useless at bat. His LOBs were mind boggling. he had so many chances to blow open games. He was completely futile.

 

Kinsler's AB's are awe inspiring regardless of the game outcome. Luv him so much.

[Bellhorn04]

I do; not for “the play” but because of his utter suckitude offensively in that series. I think half his ABs ended innings and a lot of those were with men on.

 

You can't pin the blame on one player like that. We had that series in hand.

[OH FOY]

Funny thing on that play, he did what he was suppose to do. Not let it go to Outfield. After that, it was something a Rookie would do, not a Vet. of 13 years. Moment too big for him. Some guys are like that.

[vegasbob]

Kinsler's misplay was a game changer that eventually led to a loss. His baserunning gaffes were almost as bad. His AB's continue to be weak. He does well on shallow infield pop-ups, like my 111 year old grandson.

 

But the goats of this loss rest in the noted 0-28 AB's managed by the top 4 in the lineup. Betts has become a clueless hitter with no sense of the zone. Bogaerts is a waver at pitches, Moreland cannot hit with his funky skip and pull out moves. JDM--needs to carry the load nightly. Cora's lineup sandwiching Martinez between Moreland and Holt was odd.

 

The Sox bullpen and especially Eovaldi kept this game available to be won, and the hitters choked. They were the GOATS of Chavez Ravine. Do you want fries with that concession stand cabrito ?

[Bellhorn04]

Kinsler's misplay was a game changer that eventually led to a loss. His baserunning gaffes were almost as bad. His AB's continue to be weak. He does well on shallow infield pop-ups, like my 111 year old grandson.

 

But the goats of this loss rest in the noted 0-28 AB's managed by the top 4 in the lineup. Betts has become a clueless hitter with no sense of the zone. Bogaerts is a waver at pitches, Moreland cannot hit with his funky skip and pull out moves. JDM--needs to carry the load nightly. Cora's lineup sandwiching Martinez between Moreland and Holt was odd.

 

The Sox bullpen and especially Eovaldi kept this game available to be won, and the hitters choked. They were the GOATS of Chavez Ravine. Do you want fries with that concession stand cabrito ?

 

It's easy to s*** on everyone when you're not even a fan of the team, huh?

[TylerD]

But the game was already tied when Buckner made the error. We literally win if kinsler can make a throw to 1b without tripping over his own 2 feet....

I’m not one to use a scapegoat as the entire offense last night laid a big disgusting s*** all over the field. But it was a huge mistake. With that said I understand it’s the World Series. Nerves and mistakes happen. Win tonight and make us forget

[jung]

I’m not one to use a scapegoat as the entire offense last night laid a big disgusting s*** all over the field. But it was a huge mistake. With that said I understand it’s the World Series. Nerves and mistakes happen. Win tonight and make us forget

 

Now that this is very likely at least a 6 game series, Kinsler will without question have a chance to redeem itself. Might sound strange to hear that today, Saturday. But he will get his chance.

[dgalehouse]

Kinsler has no place in Red Sox infamy. That is b.s. He is a good player who made an error. It happens. The Sox had multiple chances to overcome it. They didn't get it done. You win as a team and you lose as a team.

[notin]

Kinsler's misplay was a game changer that eventually led to a loss. His baserunning gaffes were almost as bad. His AB's continue to be weak. He does well on shallow infield pop-ups, like my 111 year old grandson.

 

But the goats of this loss rest in the noted 0-28 AB's managed by the top 4 in the lineup. Betts has become a clueless hitter with no sense of the zone. Bogaerts is a waver at pitches, Moreland cannot hit with his funky skip and pull out moves. JDM--needs to carry the load nightly. Cora's lineup sandwiching Martinez between Moreland and Holt was odd.

 

The Sox bullpen and especially Eovaldi kept this game available to be won, and the hitters choked. They were the GOATS of Chavez Ravine. Do you want fries with that concession stand cabrito ?

 

Cora was a bigger issue than Kinsler. All September. fans were worried about carrying enough hitters to accommodate Vázquez or Leon in the lineup. Having both and for as long as he did was just a mess. With Betts and Bogaerts flailing, what part of the order were we counting on to score?

[jung]

Cora was a bigger issue than Kinsler. All September. fans were worried about carrying enough hitters to accommodate Vázquez or Leon in the lineup. Having both and for as long as he did was just a mess. With Betts and Bogaerts flailing, what part of the order were we counting on to score?

 

The whole lineup failed with few exceptions. However it was clear as day why they were failing against Beuhler. They corkscrewed themselves right into that train wreck. If they took a professional approach to their AB's, I could simply chalk that mess up to Beuhler's dominance. Unfortunately that is not what happened.

[Bellhorn04]

Cora was a bigger issue than Kinsler. All September. fans were worried about carrying enough hitters to accommodate Vázquez or Leon in the lineup. Having both and for as long as he did was just a mess. With Betts and Bogaerts flailing, what part of the order were we counting on to score?

 

Leon was actually one of the offensive stars.

 

I don't see how Betts and Bogaerts flailing is a Cora issue.

 

It was just a horrible game for the offense, that's all.

[Jasonbay44]

Kinsler has no place in Red Sox infamy. That is b.s. He is a good player who made an error. It happens. The Sox had multiple chances to overcome it. They didn't get it done. You win as a team and you lose as a team.

 

He is really not a good player anymore, he has actually been horrible with the Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

He is really not a good player anymore, he has actually been horrible with the Red Sox.

 

The worst part was that we got him for his glove.

 

Big swing play to the bad.

 

I think we bounce back with a surprise win tonight.

[dgalehouse]

We score two runs in eighteen innings . Betts , Bogaerts and Martinez go a combined 0 for 18 . And we are scapegoating Kinsler for one error. I get it .

[jung]

We score two runs in eighteen innings . Betts , Bogaerts and Martinez go a combined 0 for 18 . And we are scapegoating Kinsler for one error. I get it .

 

Kinsler is getting lambasted because he had to make that play and he didn't. He was also numbingly bad on the base paths. But these guys are very proud and very talented. I am convinced that this series now goes 6 games at least if not 7. Cora set that up the way he handled last night. Frankly I expected that sort of approach from Cora if we had any lead at all going into the end of the game. Down by 1 or tied, I have no idea what he was thinking.

 

But the hitting issue is much more disturbing. We simply lost our minds at the plate. That was as poorly executed an approach to a Buehler as we could have had and that does tend to have a residual effect now going into a game against the kind of pitcher we really do struggle against.

 

Mookie had that thousand mile stare half way through 9 innings! All of them simply tried to guess along with Buehler when they should have just sat dead red. Tonight they can't sit dead red. I have no idea how they will be able to leave the Buehler game behind them going into the Hill game. They will end up questioning their ability to guess along with a pitcher that demands that of the hitter when in fact they mucked up a game by trying to guess along with a FB pitcher when they should have just sat dead red all night long against Buehler. They are the best FB hitting team in all baseball.

 

I would like to know who of the players or who of the coaches (probably hitting coaches) was supposed to stop that nonsense from the team last night before it got completely out of control.

[Jasonbay44]

We score two runs in eighteen innings . Betts , Bogaerts and Martinez go a combined 0 for 18 . And we are scapegoating Kinsler for one error. I get it .

 

They win the game with those offensive numbers, if a guy, we acquired for his fielding (due to Nunez struggling) makes a play that an MLB 2B SHOULD MAKE. Kinsler sucks.

 

Also, its not like Kinsler does anything base running wise or offensively either, he has a negative WAR since coming to Boston.

[dgalehouse]

Kinsler is getting lambasted because he had to make that play and he didn't. He was also numbingly bad on the base paths. But these guys are very proud and very talented. I am convinced that this series now goes 6 games at least if not 7. Cora set that up the way he handled last night. Frankly I expected that sort of approach from Cora if we had any lead at all going into the end of the game. Down by 1 or tied, I have no idea what he was thinking.

 

But the hitting issue is much more disturbing. We simply lost our minds at the plate. That was as poorly executed an approach to a Buehler as we could have had and that does tend to have a residual effect now going into a game against the kind of pitcher we really do struggle against.

 

Mookie had that thousand mile stare half way through 9 innings! All of them simply tried to guess along with Buehler when they should have just sat dead red. Tonight they can't sit dead red. I have no idea how they will be able to leave the Buehler game behind them going into the Hill game. They will end up questioning their ability to guess along with a pitcher that demands that of the hitter when in fact they mucked up a game by trying to guess along with a FB pitcher when they should have just sat dead red all night long against Buehler. They are the best FB hitting team in all baseball.

 

I would like to know who of the players or who of the coaches (probably hitting coaches) was supposed to stop that nonsense from the team last night before it got completely out of control.

 

Numbingly bad on the basepaths ? The ball Nunez hit was simply not deep enough, but the s.o.p. there is to take a shot and send the runner. The centerfielder made a strong throw to plate on the fly and Kinsler was d.o.a. at home. Jacoby Ellsbury in his prime would have been out on that. The offense last night was abysmal. We don't need scapegoats.

[Jasonbay44]

Numbingly bad on the basepaths ? The ball Nunez hit was simply not deep enough, but the s.o.p. there is to take a shot and send the runner. The centerfielder made a strong throw to plate on the fly and Kinsler was d.o.a. at home. Jacoby Ellsbury in his prime would have been out on that. The offense last night was abysmal. We don't need scapegoats.

Kinsler was picked off 1B and was lucky to be called safe, that slid into 3B like a complete moron and if Turner was a little more athletic he should've been tagged out there. He was horrendous.

[dgalehouse]

Kinsler was picked off 1B and was lucky to be called safe, that slid into 3B like a complete moron and if Turner was a little more athletic he should've been tagged out there. He was horrendous.

 

Replay called him safe at both first and third. We have seen quite a few guys thrown out on the bases this year , including last night. This was not one of them.

[jung]

Replay called him safe at both first and third. We have seen quite a few guys thrown out on the bases this year , including last night. This was not one of them.

 

Finally Kinsler got no jump at all on the tag up from 3rd. That is actually what cost him at the plate. Don't know if he just did not expect to be sent or not. But that was what really cost him any shot at getting to home plate as the play developed. His first move from the bag was slo-mo like while being in real time.

[dgalehouse]

Finally Kinsler got no jump at all on the tag up from 3rd. That is actually what cost him at the plate. Don't know if he just did not expect to be sent or not. But that was what really cost him any shot at getting to home plate as the play developed. His first move from the bag was slo-mo like while being in real time.

 

jung , I watched the same game as you , and I did not see that . Not sure where you saw that he got no jump on the tag up.

[moonslav59]

jung , I watched the same game as you , and I did not see that . Not sure where you saw that he got no jump on the tag up.

 

I didn't see it either, but he did seem to be running in sand. He looked slow.

[dgalehouse]

They win the game with those offensive numbers, if a guy, we acquired for his fielding (due to Nunez struggling) makes a play that an MLB 2B SHOULD MAKE. Kinsler sucks.

 

Also, its not like Kinsler does anything base running wise or offensively either, he has a negative WAR since coming to Boston.

 

An error , by definition , is failing to make a play that a major league player should make . It happens a lot. The way I saw it , Puig hit the ball sharply up the middle , Kinsler going to his right , fielded it and his cleats seemed to grab as he spun to throw to first. He stumbled and the throw sailed up the line. A costly error no doubt. He felt badly about it and apologized to Eovaldi. Eovaldi responded that there was nothing to apologize for. He said , " He's got my back and I've got his. " That's a good teammate . There were many other situations before and after that could have changed the result of the game.

[dgalehouse]

I didn't see it either, but he did seem to be running in sand. He looked slow.

 

People get worked up and they forget what they saw. I will say this much , if the teams were reversed and JBJ threw out the Dodger runner at the plate like that , people would be raving about the great throw , and rightly so. It was the same thing here , but people get fired up and want to blame somebody.

[Jasonbay44]

An error , by definition , is failing to make a play that a major league player should make . It happens a lot. The way I saw it , Puig hit the ball sharply up the middle , Kinsler going to his right , fielded it and his cleats seemed to grab as he spun to throw to first. He stumbled and the throw sailed up the line. A costly error no doubt. He felt badly about it and apologized to Eovaldi. Eovaldi responded that there was nothing to apologize for. He said , " He's got my back and I've got his. " That's a good teammate . There were many other situations before and after that could have changed the result of the game.

 

It was a physical AND mental error, If Kinsler knew his footing wasn't right, he cannot make that throw, the only way Muncy could possibly score on that play is if Kinsler throws the ball way. The risk was far too great to risk the throw, especially with a catcher playing 1B. If he had just fallen down and couldn't make the throw, okay, bad luck, but the decision to still make the throw was just dumb. You cannot do that.

[Slasher9]

f*** Ian Kinsler.

[jung]

I didn't see it either, but he did seem to be running in sand. He looked slow.

 

Well there ya' go. He looked like he was running in sand because his first step off the base was just not worth a darn.

 

Your first move off the bag has be like a fast acting muscle action, not a long acting muscle action. It has to be bang and your gone. If that does not happen, you are trying to gain momentum long after you should have and the result is that you look like you are running in sand. I have seen him move, so I don't think the snap is completely gone out of his legs. I think he saw Bellinger set up, realized Bellinger was not that far out in CF and was setting up to have momentum going toward home for the throw and just let doubt enter his mind that he would not be sent. Then when he was sent, the opportunity to snap off the base was gone and he pushed off the base instead. He never made up the lost momentum. If you can watch it looking for that, see if you think he snaps off the base or pushes off the base.

 

To snap off the base your body has to be moving toward home before you leave the bag. You don't lean toward home and then wait to go. You get your body weight shifting toward home. Its an issue of timing. If your weight is not shifting toward home you end up pushing off the base instead of snapping off the base. If you are really fast, you might make up the momentum you lost. If not, you just look like you are running in sand and is that not what Kinsler looked like he was doing.

 

The problem with snapping off the base is that if you get the stop sign, you have to be able to stop without falling on your ass. That first snap step provides tremendous momentum toward home. Have to be able stop on a dime without falling over.

 

Before I forget, you are never looking for a go sign for the tag up to go home. You assume you are going without doubt and are only looking for a stop sign as you start home.

Edited October 27, 2018 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Kinsler has had an excellent career. His career WAR is about the same as Pedroia's. And he had some good postseason numbers coming into this year. Last night was just one of those disasters similar to ones that have befallen others before him like Jackie Smith and Bill Buckner. Edited October 27, 2018 by Bellhorn04

[dgalehouse]

f*** Ian Kinsler.

 

Good fan .

[Bellhorn04]

OK quick trivia question - before Kinsler, what was the name of the last Sox second baseman to make a postseason crucial error before this one.