Is Kimbrel Shook?

[TylerD]

I think Kimbrel needs to trust his stuff and go with what he has, which is enough. He gets into trouble by trying to overthrow and then he totally loses command. The difference between 96 mph and 99 mph is not that significant, especiaqlly if it causes you to lose command.

Agreed. Kimbrel is his own worst enemy. And it’s only in high pressure games. He tries to do way too much. He needs to relax and just throw is what it comes down to. He has an amazing defence that can bail him out. But he throws entirely too many balls and gets inside his own head. How he hasn’t blown a game yet in the playoffs is absolutely beyond me.

[notin]

So was it a failure of the 'throw stuff at the wall' concept as well?

 

In a sense, yes.

 

I mean if they had a committee of good relievers like Billy Wagner Eric Gagne (the 2003 version), Brendan Donnelly (the 2003 version, including supplements), Damaso Marte, LaTroy Hawkins and John Smoltz, don't you think it might have worked out a lot better?

[notin]

How does Kimbrel not pick up his target in the 5 to 7 seconds of what my daughter calls his "crane stance"?

[TylerD]

How does Kimbrel not pick up his target in the 5 to 7 seconds of what my daughter calls his "crane stance"?

This is what I don’t get. Takes an enterinity between pitches to the point I’m surprised an Ump doesn’t tell him to hurry up. And still misses his target by a mile.

[Hitch]

The weird thing about Kimbrel is that he keeps getting himself into trouble, but he keeps getting back out of it too. Mainly through luck it has to be said, but I'll take a lucky pitcher over a good one at this time of year.

 

I think he will keep his closing spot for what its worth and we could really, really, do with the being able to offer him the QQ without him accepting.

[mvp 78]

How does Kimbrel not pick up his target in the 5 to 7 seconds of what my daughter calls his "crane stance"?

 

Well, a catcher would be dumb to hold his glove in the exact spot he wants it thrown for 5 to 7 seconds. The batter would be able to know exactly where the ball would be thrown.

[notin]

The weird thing about Kimbrel is that he keeps getting himself into trouble, but he keeps getting back out of it too. Mainly through luck it has to be said, but I'll take a lucky pitcher over a good one at this time of year.

 

I think he will keep his closing spot for what its worth and we could really, really, do with the being able to offer him the QQ without him accepting.

 

Or he gets bailed out by someone like Benintendi....

[notin]

Well, a catcher would be dumb to hold his glove in the exact spot he wants it thrown for 5 to 7 seconds. The batter would be able to know exactly where the ball would be thrown.

 

Then there is no target to pick up....

[Hitch]

Or he gets bailed out by someone like Benintendi....

 

Sure, that's why I said 'mainly through luck'.

[mvp 78]

Then there is no target to pick up....

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/alcs-game-4-an-instant-classic/c-298112188

 

Go watch all the videos here. At no point is the catcher putting up a target while he's in his crane stance.

[notin]

https://www.mlb.com/news/alcs-game-4-an-instant-classic/c-298112188

 

Go watch all the videos here. At no point is the catcher putting up a target while he's in his crane stance.

 

Maybe he needs that? The dude is all over the place...

[sk7326]

So was it a failure of the 'throw stuff at the wall' concept as well?

 

that is a good question. It was bad most of the season, but after all the churn - the bullpen was actually pretty good in the postseason. Williamson was fine.

 

The bullpen gave up 4 earned runs in 34.1 innings in the 2003 postseason - a 1.05 ERA. It took a while, but the Red Sox had a workable pen by the end of the season - regardless of Grady's hunches about it.

[jung]

https://www.mlb.com/news/alcs-game-4-an-instant-classic/c-298112188

 

Go watch all the videos here. At no point is the catcher putting up a target while he's in his crane stance.

 

Catcher is never going to put the target up that early for anybody. Catchers hide the target for as long as they can and MLB pitchers have to pitch knowing that.

 

Pedro is peddling BS with the target nonsense. But I still love him.

[mvp 78]

Catcher is never going to put the target up that early for anybody. Catchers hide the target for as long as they can and MLB pitchers have to pitch knowing that.

 

Pedro is peddling BS with the target nonsense. But I still love him.

 

I love Pedro, but he's not great on tv.

[S5Dewey]

I love Pedro, but he's not great on tv.

 

I cut Pedro a lot (and I mean A LOT) of slack for the same reason TBS has him there. Because he's Pedro. But he doesn't seem to have much new to say.

[harmony]

The Seattle Mariners might be willing to part with two years of Alex Colome or four years of Edwin Diaz, relievers who each have led the American League in saves in the last two seasons.

 

Colome, who topped the league in saves while pitching in the AL East, is projected to earn a 2019 arbitration salary of $7.3 million. Diaz remains near the league minimum salary as a pre-arbitration player.

 

I'm not sure the Red Sox would be interested or whom the Sox could offer in trade.

[TylerD]

Or he gets bailed out by someone like Benintendi....

 

This.

 

I truly think Kimbrel would have two blown saves if not for this defence. Any other team he doesn’t get out of last night. No chance. They have saved him on numerous occasions. His command simply just isn’t there that it was in the regular season and in my opinion it really boils down to nerves. He’s had more than enough starts now in the playoffs he should be getting over that s***. And if he can’t don’t be a closer.

[Slasher9]

I think this is a very bad and silly idea.

 

That's not the worst idea I've ever heard but there are some drawbacks to it from a competitive standpoint. It would completely impugn the integrity of the game and piss off thousands of fans who paid big bucks to see a playoff game. It would also probably result in a HUGE fine for Alex Cora and the Red Sox organization.

 

It would kinda put the Sox into the same category as Machado, being willing to destroy the integrity of the game in exchange for a win. But as a Sox fan - I like the idea!

 

If it were still the regular season, I'd be all for it.

Conceding a playoff game? No thanks.

 

all valid points.

i am walking this back......

[OH FOY]

How does Kimbrel not pick up his target in the 5 to 7 seconds of what my daughter calls his "crane stance"?

 

What the hell does that got to do with Picking up the target. Picking up the Target is when you start your delivery.

Edited October 18, 2018 by OH FOY!

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats

 

In the post-season players have swung at only 9 of 41 Kimbrel curveballs, 22%, which is nearing a 50% drop from the regular season. They have taken 12 of the 14 he has thrown in the strike zone. I wonder if something is going on there.

[sk7326]

The Seattle Mariners might be willing to part with two years of Alex Colome or four years of Edwin Diaz, relievers who each have led the American League in saves in the last two seasons.

 

Colome, who topped the league in saves while pitching in the AL East, is projected to earn a 2019 arbitration salary of $7.3 million. Diaz remains near the league minimum salary as a pre-arbitration player.

 

I'm not sure the Red Sox would be interested or whom the Sox could offer in trade.

 

Colome is interesting - and since the Sox biggest asset ultimately is taking on salary, that could work. Diaz is still too good a bargain for Seattle to pass up willy nilly.

[Thunder]

I've yet to weigh in on this matter. I talked to a friend of mine about this, and he pulled up a stat from somewhere to back it up. I've always trusted Kimbrel more with a 1 run lead, then with a 2 or 3 run lead. He seems to be less focused when he has more runs to work with. That would explain the lack of sharpness in the postseason, because none of his outings in a save situation began with a 1 run lead. The stat my friend pulled up showed that he's blown more 2-3 run saves than 1 run saves in his career. I can't seem to find it, however.

 

Also tack on the fact that we asked him to get 6 outs last night, and 4 outs in ALDS game 1

[TylerD]

What the hell does that got to do with Picking up the target. Picking up the Target is when you start your delivery.

 

The simple fact is Kimbrel is garbage. Why are his pitches so damn wild?? Playoffs obviously are in his head and he can’t take high pressure.

 

6 hits 5 runs and god knows how many walks in 5 innings is absolutely pathetic for any pitcher. Let alone your shut down closer.

[dgalehouse]

Or he gets bailed out by someone like Benintendi....

 

That is a mark of a championship team. They pick each other up.

[BillyWilliams]

The simple fact is Kimbrel is garbage. Why are his pitches so damn wild?? Playoffs obviously are in his head and he can’t take high pressure.

 

6 hits 5 runs and god knows how many walks in 5 innings is absolutely pathetic for any pitcher. Let alone your shut down closer.

 

 

The sox are very fortunate that it hasn't cost them any games.

[S5Dewey]

That is a mark of a championship team. They pick each other up.

 

Kimbrel got bailed out twice last night, once in the 8th by Mookie and again in the 9th by Beni, both with great plays. You closer should not have to be bailed out twice in consecutive innings!

 

When does it become Kimbrel's turn to pick the team up? And does he have the capability to do it now?

[dgalehouse]

I've yet to weigh in on this matter. I talked to a friend of mine about this, and he pulled up a stat from somewhere to back it up. I've always trusted Kimbrel more with a 1 run lead, then with a 2 or 3 run lead. He seems to be less focused when he has more runs to work with. That would explain the lack of sharpness in the postseason, because none of his outings in a save situation began with a 1 run lead. The stat my friend pulled up showed that he's blown more 2-3 run saves than 1 run saves in his career. I can't seem to find it, however.

 

Also tack on the fact that we asked him to get 6 outs last night, and 4 outs in ALDS game 1

 

Give him some credit for getting the six outs. Osuna gave up five runs in one inning. Kimbrel has pitched very poorly, but he hasn't walked off the mound a loser yet. And that's the bottom line.

Edited October 18, 2018 by dgalehouse

[dgalehouse]

Kimbrel got bailed out twice last night, once in the 8th by Mookie and again in the 9th by Beni, both with great plays. You closer should not have to be bailed out twice in consecutive innings!

 

When does it become Kimbrel's turn to pick the team up? And does he have the capability to do it now?

 

He will get more chances . He certainly has a history of being very capable. How many saves this year ? I hope the players stick together as a team and don't think of it as " bailing anyone out." That is not a good way to look at it.

[S5Dewey]

Give him some credit for getting the six outs. Osuna gave up five runs in one inning. Kimbrel has pitched very poorly, but he hasn't yet walked off the mound a loser yet. And that's the bottom line.

 

Comparing Kimbrel to Osuna is a pretty low bar! He's been very fortunate to have not picked up a "L" in his most recent appearances.

 

I can appreciate the perspective of those who want to have Kimbrel's back but it's obvious to everyone that the Craig Kimbrel we're seeing pitch recently isn't the same Craig Kimbrel we saw mid-season. He used to be dominant and now he's depending on the best defensive outfield in baseball or an outstanding play by an infielder to bail him out. Sooner or later that may (probably will) catch up with him.

[S5Dewey]

He will get more chances . He certainly has a history of being very capable. How many saves this year ? I hope the players stick together as a team and don't think of it as " bailing anyone out." That is not a good way to look at it.

 

As Bill Parcells is being quoted as saying, "All I know is what I see" and what I'm seeing now is that for some reason I wouldn't speculate on Kimbrel is suddenly no more than a mediocre closer.