Bogie the Quiet performer . . .

[OH FOY]

You stated your point I stated mine, now move on.

[OH FOY]

Have a good night rather watch the game. Thanks.

[a700hitter]

Devers is no lock to be the 3rd baseman of the future. His defense needs a lot of improvement. His offense has been spotty and inconsistent and has not overcome his defensive shortcomings to justify keeping him in the lineup. I don’t think we will see a lot of him in the post season.

[moonslav59]

Players with more than 25 innings @ 3B

 

2014

Bogaerts (44)

Middlebrooks (62)

[7 others]

 

2015

Holt (33)

Sandoval (123)

[6 others]

 

2016

Aaron Hill (42)

T. Shaw (105)

[7 others]

 

2017

Devers (56)

Marrero (52)

Sandoval (29)

[7 others]

 

2018

Devers (102)

Nunes (41)

[4 others]

In only two years since 2014 have the Sox had the same player get the majority of the innings at 3b. That was Devers in 2017 & 2018 and he's since been sent down. I'm not the one not giving Devers a chance. Blame that on the RS FO.

 

Since Iggy came back from his "lost season" due to an injury he's averaged 128 games per season. That'll go up a little this month.

 

Devers did not get the majority of innings at 3B in 2017. He had more than anyone else, but not the majority.

 

2017:

508 Devers

364 Marrero

213 Pablo

139 Rutledge

77 Holt

72 Hernandez

57 Lin

47 Nunez

4 Selsky

2 Vaz

 

Devers played 36% of the 3B innings last year.

[notin]

Devers is no lock to be the 3rd baseman of the future. His defense needs a lot of improvement. His offense has been spotty and inconsistent and has not overcome his defensive shortcomings to justify keeping him in the lineup. I don’t think we will see a lot of him in the post season.

 

But you also have to weigh that against him being the youngest position player above A-ball in the entire organization...

[moonslav59]

But you also have to weigh that against him being the youngest position player above A-ball in the entire organization...

 

Not only is he so young, but it shocks me that people are worried that in his first 672 PAs in MLB, he has put up these numbers:

 

.255 26 85

 

(.750 OPS)

 

No doubt, his defense needs a lot of work, but his offense has been better than expected- lots of ups and downs but overall very good for his age and experience level.

[Slasher9]

Not only is he so young, but it shocks me that people are worried that in his first 672 PAs in MLB, he has put up these numbers:

 

.255 26 85

 

(.750 OPS)

 

No doubt, his defense needs a lot of work, but his offense has been better than expected- lots of ups and downs but overall very good for his age and experience level.

 

agree 100%. we all knew this when he was brought up and handed the job. we all knew that we would have to live with the peaks and valleys when he was handed the job again this season with no real contender to the position addressed in the offseason by FO. so why is DD now scrambling? why is Cora platooning? did they not know that a 21 YO was going to have "growing pains"? did they not know we were a playoff team??

Sad!

[cp176]

Bogaerts is a worker. Since the winter he worked with Pedroia in Arizona, his defense looks to (I wonder if it is legal to say that here) me to be pretty good and getting better. There is nothing about this guy that I do no like. He is a shortstop and that is where hopefully he stays for a long time in Boston. There would be absolutely no reason to try to move him off short. Are there better fielding shortstops? pretty sure there are. Does it matter? nope - He ain't bad.

[Slasher9]

X-bo is a trendsetter too.

Saturday after my son's doubleheader sitting across from him at the diner i noticed 2 slots shaved into his left eyebrow.

[moonslav59]

agree 100%. we all knew this when he was brought up and handed the job. we all knew that we would have to live with the peaks and valleys when he was handed the job again this season with no real contender to the position addressed in the offseason by FO. so why is DD now scrambling? why is Cora platooning? did they not know that a 21 YO was going to have "growing pains"? did they not know we were a playoff team??

Sad!

 

They knew. They signed Nunez, which was about the most they could spend on 2B/3B without going over the max penalty line.

 

In all fairness to DD, much of the major salary issues were Ben's fault.

 

I think DD felt we'd be strong enough at other positions, which we have been, to absorb a possible net loss at 3B or 2B. Pedey's non return coupled with Nunez's struggles have made the choice look worse than it might have been. Let's see what DD does with HRam, Pom & Kelly's contracts coming off the books next winter.

[moonslav59]

Bogey is no longer quiet about anything.

 

He has arrived!

 

He's nearing the .900 mark this late in a season.

 

Awesome!

[notin]

Bogey is no longer quiet about anything.

 

He has arrived!

 

He's nearing the .900 mark this late in a season.

 

Awesome!

 

And when he was Devers' age, he had a .662 OPS across 644 plate appearances and wasn't exactly a dazzling defender. Back then, did people question if he was the shortstop of the future?

[moonslav59]

And when he was Devers' age, he had a .662 OPS across 644 plate appearances and wasn't exactly a dazzling defender. Back then, did people question if he was the shortstop of the future?

 

Great point!

[sk7326]

But you also have to weigh that against him being the youngest position player above A-ball in the entire organization...

 

Devers is younger than the 3rd pick in the 2018 MLB draft. That he did not explode this year is not a surprise. His trajectory is still super encouraging.

 

Defensively he needs to improve - but if he doesn't it's not a big deal. His bat plays at 1B and 3B is probably the org's biggest strength as far as position players go.

 

Casas might be the org's #1 prospect generally

Chavis profiles there

Dalbec has shown he can defend the position well - question is whether he can make enough contact to play

[oldtimer]

They knew. They signed Nunez, which was about the most they could spend on 2B/3B without going over the max penalty line.

 

In all fairness to DD, much of the major salary issues were Ben's fault.

 

I think DD felt we'd be strong enough at other positions, which we have been, to absorb a possible net loss at 3B or 2B. Pedey's non return coupled with Nunez's struggles have made the choice look worse than it might have been. Let's see what DD does with HRam, Pom & Kelly's contracts coming off the books next winter.

 

I'll weigh in by saying we still will be carrying Panda's contract next year less the little that the Giant's will pay him. Panda by the way is playing as a 5'11" 268# while Devers at now 22 is a 6' 237# youngster, with the potential to improve, but also to get heavier and less mobile. I see Moreland as our left handed first baseman and we don't need another. Swihart may stay as a utility player who can back it up at first so Pearse may be gone. No place at first for Devers next year. Phillips won't be here next year and maybe Nunez will also be gone. Maybe we will try Chavis at 3rd, to go long with Devers. I hope we keep Kinsler to co-anchor the 2nd base slot with Pedey. I wonder about catcher. Hard to find good defensive catchers who can hit. We should be well set in the outfield, SS and DH. No cliff in the field.

[sk7326]

I'll weigh in by saying we still will be carrying Panda's contract next year less the little that the Giant's will pay him. Panda by the way is playing as a 5'11" 268# while Devers at now 22 is a 6' 237# youngster, with the potential to improve, but also to get heavier and less mobile. I see Moreland as our left handed first baseman and we don't need another. Swihart may stay as a utility player who can back it up at first so Pearse may be gone. No place at first for Devers next year. Phillips won't be here next year and maybe Nunez will also be gone. Maybe we will try Chavis at 3rd, to go long with Devers. I hope we keep Kinsler to co-anchor the 2nd base slot with Pedey. I wonder about catcher. Hard to find good defensive catchers who can hit. We should be well set in the outfield, SS and DH. No cliff in the field.

 

Moreland is a placeholder until a superior option announces itself - if he's a full time starter, we did it wrong. There was not a superior option this year so Dombrowski traded for a platoon partner to optimize the situation.

[Maxbialystock]

119 452 64 127 41 3 19 89 48 88 6 2 .281 .354 .511 .865

 

89 RBI's, probably 100 this season

.865 OPS

19 HR's, could reach 25?

 

VERY SOLID on D all year long

 

ALL THIS in only 119 games!!!!

 

 

This kid is THE UNSUNG HERO of 2018!

 

ABSOLUTELY an ALL-Star this YEAR! Was not named, but this is an ALL-Star year by any standard!

 

Good to repeat your basis for "quiet" hero because there is absolutely nothing quiet about the guy. He loves being a major leaguer, especially with a contender like the Sox, and it shows in the way he plays.

[moonslav59]

Moreland is a placeholder until a superior option announces itself - if he's a full time starter, we did it wrong. There was not a superior option this year so Dombrowski traded for a platoon partner to optimize the situation.

 

Yes, Moreland was signed as insurance or to platoon with HRam. We picked up Pearce to take HRam's placevs LHPs.

 

If Devers hit LHPs well, he might be at 1B already, at least part-time.

 

Moreland's deal runs out after next year- Pearce's this winter. I seriously doubt we move Devers to 1B next year, but if he doesn't improve his defense at 3B, we may do so by 2020. Pedey's return and how well Nunez is doing might play into the decision. If JD bolts on his opt out, we might end up moving Devers to DH/1B, if things stall at 3B/

 

[sk7326]

Yes, Moreland was signed as insurance or to platoon with HRam. We picked up Pearce to take HRam's placevs LHPs.

 

If Devers hit LHPs well, he might be at 1B already, at least part-time.

 

Moreland's deal runs out after next year- Pearce's this winter. I seriously doubt we move Devers to 1B next year, but if he doesn't improve his defense at 3B, we may do so by 2020. Pedey's return and how well Nunez is doing might play into the decision. If JD bolts on his opt out, we might end up moving Devers to DH/1B, if things stall at 3B/

 

 

The best reason to move Devers to 1B is if a superior option shows up - and you have to project some improvement with Devers (not just because he is young, but because he has had a habit of conquering levels given time). Now 3B is the org's best position - and the most likely place for a legit stud to show up.

[cp176]

And when he was Devers' age, he had a .662 OPS across 644 plate appearances and wasn't exactly a dazzling defender. Back then, did people question if he was the shortstop of the future?

 

Is this a question? if yes - no I did not have a question about Bogaerts becoming our future ss. I liked very much what he did that winter and appreciated the work the kid put in. He also had Brian Butterfield around to work with him.

[moonslav59]

The best reason to move Devers to 1B is if a superior option shows up - and you have to project some improvement with Devers (not just because he is young, but because he has had a habit of conquering levels given time). Now 3B is the org's best position - and the most likely place for a legit stud to show up.

 

I've been suggesting a move might be best for Devers, eventually, but even I think he deserves at least another year to show improvement at 3B.

 

I'm only looking at 2020 as a possibility.

[sk7326]

I've been suggesting a move might be best for Devers, eventually, but even I think he deserves at least another year to show improvement at 3B.

 

I'm only looking at 2020 as a possibility.

 

I think he's good athlete and it's harder to find good 3B than good 1B - so you stick it out and give him a chance. I agree there. And obviously Devers has a higher ceiling than their other 3B prospects ...

[Slasher9]

And when he was Devers' age, he had a .662 OPS across 644 plate appearances and wasn't exactly a dazzling defender. Back then, did people question if he was the shortstop of the future?

 

yup. we sure did. great point and that's why many of us have been more prepared for Rafi's "growing pains". although many are not....

[notin]

I'll weigh in by saying we still will be carrying Panda's contract next year less the little that the Giant's will pay him. Panda by the way is playing as a 5'11" 268# while Devers at now 22 is a 6' 237# youngster, with the potential to improve, but also to get heavier and less mobile. I see Moreland as our left handed first baseman and we don't need another. Swihart may stay as a utility player who can back it up at first so Pearse may be gone. No place at first for Devers next year. Phillips won't be here next year and maybe Nunez will also be gone. Maybe we will try Chavis at 3rd, to go long with Devers. I hope we keep Kinsler to co-anchor the 2nd base slot with Pedey. I wonder about catcher. Hard to find good defensive catchers who can hit. We should be well set in the outfield, SS and DH. No cliff in the field.

 

Peace, Kinsler and Phillips are all free agents after this season. Maybe the Sox bring back Pearce, whose career has largely been as a bench player. I suppose they might bring back Phillips, but despite of his MiLB deal this year, has a long history of being very picky about his contracts and where he plays.

 

3B is easily wide open for Devers, unless the Sox bring in someone like Moustakas or Donaldson (which isn't likely). Moreland likely has 1B, although at his salary a bench role is hardly unprecedented.

 

As for catcher, that is one position the Sox have an abundance of at the major league level. All3 backstops are under contract for next season, and of the three, Swihart is probably the most tradeable for reasons related to age/potential, salary, control and versatility. Sure, you can move, say, Leon, but takers won't be begging for him as opposed to what can be had on cheap deals or in cheap trades. If the goal is to get a catcher who excels both offensively and defensively, don't hold your breath...

[notin]

Is this a question? if yes - no I did not have a question about Bogaerts becoming our future ss. I liked very much what he did that winter and appreciated the work the kid put in. He also had Brian Butterfield around to work with him.

 

I'm sure a lot of people were ready to hand the SS position over to Bogaerts in 2014. There was a certain irony in a thread all about praising Bogaerts that it has started to contain a lot of posts questioning the future of Devers, despite Devers being the clearly better player at the same age...

[notin]

yup. we sure did. great point and that's why many of us have been more prepared for Rafi's "growing pains". although many are not....

 

I am willing to conceded that, unlike Bogaerts, we have to deal with Devers' growing pains during what looks like a very special season for this team, and it does make him look like a weakness at the wrong time as opposed to an exciting future piece....

[Maxbialystock]

I am willing to conceded that, unlike Bogaerts, we have to deal with Devers' growing pains during what looks like a very special season for this team, and it does make him look like a weakness at the wrong time as opposed to an exciting future piece....

 

About right. I still believe in Devers and do think he is working on his defense. This year is definitely a disappointment compared to last year, but he is 21, so I cut him some slack. Moonslav's point is that the Sox can wait at least thru 2019 before making a move.

 

This year, his rookie year, he came out of spring training as the starting thirdbaseman, which basically meant that Cora played him a lot. I think by the all star break Devers had played in the most games. But as of today he has played 106 games, fewer than Nunez and Moreland, 121 and 113 games, both of whom have been almost in the platoon category, and he has done so because of injuries.

 

Here's a little stunner. Last year in 58 games Devers WAR was 1.3, not too shabby. This year in 106 games it's -.4.

 

So all the complainers have a sound basis for being that way. But that's why his age, 21, is important. When Devers came up last year and now and then this year, he has exhibited a big grin and a lot of joy in being a major leaguer. That's good.

 

But what's that Tom Hanks line about baseball when Geena Davis complained it just got to be too hard? "The hard is what makes it great! If it were easy, everyone would do it." My guess is that Devers this year is learning about the hard part.

[moonslav59]

I am willing to conceded that, unlike Bogaerts, we have to deal with Devers' growing pains during what looks like a very special season for this team, and it does make him look like a weakness at the wrong time as opposed to an exciting future piece....

 

Bogey also had to contend with playing out of position after just 10 games at 3B in the minors. The second Stephen Drew signing was weird.

 

To me, Devers is ahead of schedule. His defense has improved this year, except for his arm accuracy, which has been a killer.

 

BTW, he's +0.7 with fWAR after a +0.8 last year.

 

His UZR/150 has greatly improved (warning- small sample sizes)

-11.5 in 2017

-4.5 in 2018

 

His range has improved from +1.4 to +2.9. Inside Edge has him making just 92% of routine plays over his career. This should be correctable. You can't "learn" range, but you can improve your footwork and decision making- in theory.

]-

[Bellhorn04]

Bogey also had to contend with playing out of position after just 10 games at 3B in the minors. The second Stephen Drew signing was weird.

 

The Red Sox began 2014 with Bogey at SS and Middlebrooks at 3B. Middlebrooks got off to a lousy start, then got injured. They had to do something. Drew was still out there after his free agency fiasco and Ben was able to sign him for 9.5 mill, put him at SS and move Bogey to 3B.

 

But nothing worked out very well in 2014, for whatever reasons.

[sk7326]

Unlike 2014 - the team has handled Devers exactly right ... bat him low in the lineup and let him learn. Now later in the season platoon him a bit with other guys ... it has been good they have not jerked around his playing time.