Down the stretch: The bullpen

[SoxHop]

One thing that often bothers me is when one reliever comes into the game, has a dominant inning with very few pitches, then is replaced by another reliever the next inning, who may or may not get the job done. I wish the manager (not just Cora) would let a reliever pitch a 2nd inning when the first one was so easy.

 

Me too. A700 put it rather well one time. It's like the search for failure.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I didn't realize Kimbrel has walked as many as he has this year. His walk ratio is over 4.00 is that is unacceptable (21 walks in 46 IP). Elite closers don't walk batters at that pace.

 

As far as next year goes, get the draft pick for Kimbrel, and save some money on the closer position. I would be curious to know what Britton will end up with, but it won't be the 80 million that Kimbrel gets on the free agent market. The Red Sox need a bridge closer that will get them to Feltman. Britton is a nice option or maybe there is a salary dump guy, with one year remaining on his contract, that can be obtained in a trade. Maybe sign Kevin Herrera and let Herrera and Barnes compete for the closer role.

 

By saving money on the closer, the Red Sox can in turn use that money to extend Bogaerts and Betts. Eric Van believes Bogaerts will come cheaper than expected--(1) there are many good shortstops in the league at present and (2) Bogaerts defensive metrics are not great.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Fan_since_Boggs

[SoxHop]

I didn't realize Kimbrel has walked as many as he has this year. His walk ratio is over 4.00 is that is unacceptable (21 walks in 46 IP). Elite closers don't walk batters at that pace.

 

As far as next year goes, get the draft pick for Kimbrel, and save some money on the closer position. I would be curious to know what Britton will end up with, but it won't be the 80 million that Kimbrel gets on the free agent market. The Red Sox need a bridge closer that will get them to Feltman. Britton is a nice option or maybe there is a salary dump guy, with one year remaining on his contract, that can be obtained in a trade. Maybe sign Kevin Herrera and let Herrera and Barnes compete for the closer role.

 

What's crazy to me is that the talk about aquiring a piece now is only talk about the playoffs. It's all about the playoffs now and having shutdown players that can close the game out. There isn't anything to my post other than that. It just blows my mind, the only thought now is how to win ONE game. Or maybe a couple.

[moonslav59]

I didn't realize Kimbrel has walked as many as he has this year. His walk ratio is over 4.00 is that is unacceptable (21 walks in 46 IP). Elite closers don't walk batters at that pace.

 

As far as next year goes, get the draft pick for Kimbrel, and save some money on the closer position. I would be curious to know what Britton will end up with, but it won't be the 80 million that Kimbrel gets on the free agent market. The Red Sox need a bridge closer that will get them to Feltman. Britton is a nice option or maybe there is a salary dump guy, with one year remaining on his contract, that can be obtained in a trade. Maybe sign Kevin Herrera and let Herrera and Barnes compete for the closer role.

 

I would never spend $18-21M a year on a closer.

 

We may end up letting Thornburg & Smith fight it out with Barnes having an outside shot.

 

Some has mentioned Feltman being fast-tracked, but I would not plan the 2019 roster with him holding a key role.

 

I could see us signing a lower cost closer type to throw in the mix, but I would never go with a "closer by committee" plan.

 

If we let Kimbrel go and gain a draft pick via a QO declined, do we keep Kelly or just start over?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I would never spend $18-21M a year on a closer.

 

We may end up letting Thornburg & Smith fight it out with Barnes having an outside shot.

 

Some has mentioned Feltman being fast-tracked, but I would not plan the 2019 roster with him holding a key role.

 

I could see us signing a lower cost closer type to throw in the mix, but I would never go with a "closer by committee" plan.

 

If we let Kimbrel go and gain a draft pick via a QO declined, do we keep Kelly or just start over?

 

Speaking of draft pick compensation, the other thing that really sucks about Pomeranz's season is that the Red Sox can't make him a qualifying offer and get a draft pick.

 

I don't know about Kelly. I think the organization needs to figure out his worth and make him an offer but I wouldn't go higher if another team competes for his services.

 

Yeah, Thornburg and Smith could be thrown into the mix for the closer competition as well. Also, the Red Sox could consider signing D.Robertson rather than K.Herrera. I'm most intrigued by Z.Britton, though, but it is hard to figure out what he will earn on the free agent market.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Fan_since_Boggs

[moonslav59]

When is Barnes going to get the props he deserves?

 

He's only got one more IP than Kimbrel but has a 1.6 fWAR to Kimbrel's 1.2 fWAR.

 

His 1.6 WAR is tied for 9th in MLB.

 

Yes, the Yankess have 5 RP'ers in the top 40 by fWAR, and that's not even counting Britton, but I like our 1-2 punch of Kimbrel and Barnes. If Kelly can get to the top of his game by October, our 1-2-3 punch might be all we need to win us another ring.

 

Look at these numbers:

 

fWAR from 2017-2018

 

4.5 Kimbrel

3.7 Treinen

3.7 E Diaz

3.5 Osuna

3.5 Chapman

3.3 C Green

3.0 Soria

2.9 Robertson

2.7 K Giles

2.6 M Barnes

2.6 Y Petit

2.5 A Miller

 

[Jason33]

I know this is obvious, but dang if our bullpen is not a WS losing weakness I don’t know what is. I mean Price finally has a great start against the Yankees, and Hembree comes in and immediately implodes. I know Xandier made a huge error, but Hembree was pitching terrible. I don’t know how we go far in the playoffs if we don’t get at least decent bullpen performances. I went to a game on the 12th against the Jays where Mookie hits a grandslam, but Barnes comes in and starts giving up runs. The Jays are a average team. Imagine what our bullpen will have to face in the playoffs.

 

DD made some good moves at the trade deadline, but not adding any arms to a bad bullpen is troublesome. Kimberl is our only good reliever. I mean we can see if anyone gets put on wavers, but I don’t see another way to improve our biggest weakness. Does anyone else?

[Slasher9]

In the playoffs 1 of the starters will go to the pen. That should help?

[dgalehouse]

I would never spend $18-21M a year on a closer.

 

We may end up letting Thornburg & Smith fight it out with Barnes having an outside shot.

 

Some has mentioned Feltman being fast-tracked, but I would not plan the 2019 roster with him holding a key role.

 

I could see us signing a lower cost closer type to throw in the mix, but I would never go with a "closer by committee" plan.

 

If we let Kimbrel go and gain a draft pick via a QO declined, do we keep Kelly or just start over?

 

I get that it is not desirable to pay a lot for a closer. But you have to be careful. Closing ain't easy. Blown saves are destructive. A few weeks ago , some wanted to let Kimbrel walk and give the job to Kelly. Now that Kelly has fallen out of favor , Barnes is the man. Thornburg and Smith ? Really ? You , yourself , once suggested we could save money by using the likes of KRod and Clippard to close. That would not have worked too well. Kimbrel is one of the best of his era. Not saying we should bust the budget to sign him , but don't think that just anyone can fill that role.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

In the playoffs 1 of the starters will go to the pen. That should help?

 

 

A very good point that tends to be forgotten during the season.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I know this is obvious, but dang if our bullpen is not a WS losing weakness I don’t know what is. I mean Price finally has a great start against the Yankees, and Hembree comes in and immediately implodes. I know Xandier made a huge error, but Hembree was pitching terrible. I don’t know how we go far in the playoffs if we don’t get at least decent bullpen performances. I went to a game on the 12th against the Jays where Mookie hits a grandslam, but Barnes comes in and starts giving up runs. The Jays are a average team. Imagine what our bullpen will have to face in the playoffs.

 

DD made some good moves at the trade deadline, but not adding any arms to a bad bullpen is troublesome. Kimberl is our only good reliever. I mean we can see if anyone gets put on wavers, but I don’t see another way to improve our biggest weakness. Does anyone else?

 

I've been saying the same thing for months. Very disappointed DD didn't acquire a set up man. Sure Barnes has been good but that's not nearly enough. I'm not worried about Kimbrell, that was an aberration the other night. But the rest I don't trust to hold a 1 run lead in October to get to Kimbrell.

[Bellhorn04]

I get that it is not desirable to pay a lot for a closer. But you have to be careful. Closing ain't easy. Blown saves are destructive. A few weeks ago , some wanted to let Kimbrel walk and give the job to Kelly. Now that Kelly has fallen out of favor , Barnes is the man. Thornburg and Smith ? Really ? You , yourself , once suggested we could save money by using the likes of KRod and Clippard to close. That would not have worked too well. Kimbrel is one of the best of his era. Not saying we should bust the budget to sign him , but don't think that just anyone can fill that role.

 

I approve of this post.

[OH FOY]

Wait till the Post-Season on Kimbrel. Getting ahead of ourselves. Save in June against Orioles, has no baring on what goes on in Oct, its important, but I'll wait. He dominates against the best, then decision has to be made. I want to see him under extreme pressure. Edited August 6, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Carbo-Diem]

Speaking of draft pick compensation, the other thing that really sucks about Pomeranz's season is that the Red Sox can't make him a qualifying offer and get a draft pick.

 

I don't know about Kelly. I think the organization needs to figure out his worth and make him an offer but I wouldn't go higher if another team competes for his services.

 

Yeah, Thornburg and Smith could be thrown into the mix for the closer competition as well. Also, the Red Sox could consider signing D.Robertson rather than K.Herrera. I'm most intrigued by Z.Britton, though, but it is hard to figure out what he will earn on the free agent market.

 

I really don't think you want to offer Pomeranz the qualifying offer even if they could. After what happened last off season, a chump topping out at 89mph is going to jump at that 17 million or whatever it is.

[Bellhorn04]

One thing that often bothers me is when one reliever comes into the game, has a dominant inning with very few pitches, then is replaced by another reliever the next inning, who may or may not get the job done. I wish the manager (not just Cora) would let a reliever pitch a 2nd inning when the first one was so easy.

 

Me too. A700 put it rather well one time. It's like the search for failure.

 

This is a big part of modern baseball managing philosophy.

 

Thread-worthy.

[OH FOY]

How much is the QO going to be? What do they think is this Off-Season?

[Maxbialystock]

This thread sure went south in a hurry. Now we have the worst bullpen ever and a stupid manager who brings in the wrong guy (Hembree) and who won't leave effective relievers in the game, preferring to "search for disaster" by bringing in a new guy each inning.

 

The Sox currently have the second lowest ERA in MLB, so I gotta wonder just how bad things are, especially after watching the Yankees bullpen give away not 1 but 2 games in the recently completely series.

 

In my opinion, way too much negativism directed toward the bullpen, which I agree sure ain't perfect, but which has had some good moments/games.

 

FWIW, last night I would not have brought Price out for the 7th but would have brought Hembree instead. Price got the 2 earned runs in the 7th, and Hembree's were both unearned.

[mvp 78]

This thread sure went south in a hurry. Now we have the worst bullpen ever and a stupid manager who brings in the wrong guy (Hembree) and who won't leave effective relievers in the game, preferring to "search for disaster" by bringing in a new guy each inning.

 

The Sox currently have the second lowest ERA in MLB, so I gotta wonder just how bad things are, especially after watching the Yankees bullpen give away not 1 but 2 games in the recently completely series.

 

In my opinion, way too much negativism directed toward the bullpen, which I agree sure ain't perfect, but which has had some good moments/games.

 

FWIW, last night I would not have brought Price out for the 7th but would have brought Hembree instead. Price got the 2 earned runs in the 7th, and Hembree's were both unearned.

 

Considering that we were all told over and over and over again that DD's achilles heel was bullpen construction, I think we should all be jumping for joy.

[moonslav59]

Our pen has the second best WAR since 2017. Even the WAR doubters should understand that we have to do a lot of things right to get that ranking.

 

Barnes gets no to little respect. Kelly has been awful at times, as has Kimbrel, butoverall, our pen keeps quietly getting the job done a heck of a lot more than 28 other teams.

 

Sure, I'd like a lights out set-up man added, but our pen, as is, IS NOT A WEAKNESS!

[Spudboy]

I get that it is not desirable to pay a lot for a closer. But you have to be careful. Closing ain't easy. Blown saves are destructive. A few weeks ago , some wanted to let Kimbrel walk and give the job to Kelly. Now that Kelly has fallen out of favor , Barnes is the man. Thornburg and Smith ? Really ? You , yourself , once suggested we could save money by using the likes of KRod and Clippard to close. That would not have worked too well. Kimbrel is one of the best of his era. Not saying we should bust the budget to sign him , but don't think that just anyone can fill that role.

 

I approve of this post.

 

I still say Kimbrel can be had for a reasonable sum.

[kenmeister]

When E-Rod and Wright come back, it will (?) bump other starters to the bullpen. If Eovaldi does move to the bullpen, he may be the lights out setup man we've been looking for. That said, I have to say Thornburg looks pretty good recently.

[Maxbialystock]

When E-Rod and Wright come back, it will (?) bump other starters to the bullpen. If Eovaldi does move to the bullpen, he may be the lights out setup man we've been looking for. That said, I have to say Thornburg looks pretty good recently.

 

I don't see Eovaldi being bumped to the bullpen, but you make a good point about what he could do there--if he is suited. Some guys are uncomfortable coming out of the bullpen.