Personal opinion: Brian Johnson is ready to be our 5th starter

[FredLynn]

A guy who has been injured all year has bad numbers? Wow what a surprise. When Pom is fully healthy, he'll be better than Johnson.

 

Yup. But as you said, its likely he is not healthy. It is what it is.

[Bellhorn04]

Pomeranz may be working his way back to health. It's been known to happen.

[FredLynn]

As I said, Johnson's ERA was 5.33 at the end of May. What did you think of him then?

 

I like him better than Pomeranz whose ERA at the end of May was 6.81.

[Dojji]

I'm not sure that Pom was ever supposed to be our #3 starter. Either way, I don't think that's relevant to the argument now.

 

Clearly we are discussing who our #5 starter should be.

 

The side discussion on Pomeranz' performance is indicated in the OP and therefore relevant to the thread.

 

After the disappearing act by Price last year, Pomeranz was the #3 starter behind Sale and Porcello. That has affected expectations this year with the way he's been fighting himself to try to pitch effectively.

 

This is a team not just on a playoff run, but on a run for the all time record books. We can not tolerate dead weight in a starting rotation spot. Pomeranz' last start was encouraging but he has a lot of work to do to get back on form, and to see another young lefty starting to figure it out at the big league level, and hang in there against one of the better lineups in major league baseball, is encouraging enough that if Pomeranz continues to fight himself he's going to wind up sitting. We can not carry a negative producer in the rotation indefinitely.

[Dojji]

Worth noting as well that Johnson's development trajectory is pretty similar to some other lefties we've seen in big league ball that went on to be solid contributors.

 

His strikeout numbers are also highly encouraging, I really, really like his walk-to-strikeout ratio this year, that's often a sign of good things in the future.

 

I don't think anyone saw him putting people away at quite the rate he was doing, his ability to miss bats was one of the things that kept him in the game last night, and that was a good lineup he was pitching against too. He's been doing a better job of not throwing ball 4 this year too.

 

Johnson may wind up with a slightly more significant career than originally projected, given half a chance, especially if he can make an adjustment to curb the damage the home run ball is doing to him. He could wind up in a couple years being the third starter on a bad team, or as a valuable lower echelon inning burner on a good one.

 

In short this kid's right on the cusp of exceeding expectations and it's time to discuss whether we should make room for him.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Dojji

[Kimmi]

The side discussion on Pomeranz' performance is indicated in the OP and therefore relevant to the thread.

 

After the disappearing act by Price last year, Pomeranz was the #3 starter behind Sale and Porcello. That has affected expectations this year with the way he's been fighting himself to try to pitch effectively.

 

This is a team not just on a playoff run, but on a run for the all time record books. We can not tolerate dead weight in a starting rotation spot. Pomeranz' last start was encouraging but he has a lot of work to do to get back on form, and to see another young lefty starting to figure it out at the big league level, and hang in there against one of the better lineups in major league baseball, is encouraging enough that if Pomeranz continues to fight himself he's going to wind up sitting. We can not carry a negative producer in the rotation indefinitely.

 

There were many of us who were expecting regression from Pom, even if he stayed healthy, and positive regression from Price and Porcello. Sale is Sale. Therefore, the expectations were for ERod and Pom to be the #4 and 5 starters, in no particular order.

 

As far as the team being on a run for all time record books, the FO and Cora cannot make decisions based on trying to chase the record books. With the lead that we have over the Yankees, we can most certainly afford to give Pom another look. No, we cannot carry a negative producer in the rotation indefinitely, but I don't think anyone is saying that.

[greenwell]

A guy who has been injured all year has bad numbers? Wow what a surprise. When Pom is fully healthy, he'll be better than Johnson.

 

That's not an excuse. If he isn't healthy that's his fault for not saying so. There was 0 reason to rush back.

[Dojji]

There were many of us who were expecting regression from Pom, even if he stayed healthy, and positive regression from Price and Porcello. Sale is Sale. Therefore, the expectations were for ERod and Pom to be the #4 and 5 starters, in no particular order.

 

As far as the team being on a run for all time record books, the FO and Cora cannot make decisions based on trying to chase the record books. With the lead that we have over the Yankees, we can most certainly afford to give Pom another look. No, we cannot carry a negative producer in the rotation indefinitely, but I don't think anyone is saying that.

 

They can when the record books are achieved by winning as many games as possible, which should be the goal anyway.

 

I mean look at it objectively, would YOU trust Pomeranz as he is right now to pitch a critical game against NYY? I know he's been good in the past, but I'm not built to take that kind of leap of faith on a guy who has been bad all year.

 

And while I agree that health is almost definitely a factor... it's August. He has very little time left to get healthy. He deserves a chance to show us if he's already recovered from whatever was bothering him early in the year, but if that doesn't happen we need to move on quickly and assess our other options for "his" playoff roster spot with as large a sample size as possible.

 

He's HAD his chances this year, and he's not here next year so the only relevant question whether he can get his mojo back in this season -- and we've reached the literal last second for a guy who shows up to work every 5th day to put in some innings and prove that. He's got 4-5 possible starts between now and September and he's going to have to be lights out in all of them. We don't have TIME for more second chances.

[Kimmi]

They can when the record books are achieved by winning as many games as possible, which should be the goal anyway.

 

I mean look at it objectively, would YOU trust Pomeranz as he is right now to pitch a critical game against NYY? I know he's been good in the past, but I'm not built to take that kind of leap of faith on a guy who has been bad all year.

 

And while I agree that health is almost definitely a factor... it's August. He has very little time left to get healthy. He deserves a chance to show us if he's already recovered from whatever was bothering him early in the year, but if that doesn't happen we need to move on quickly and assess our other options for "his" playoff roster spot with as large a sample size as possible.

 

He's HAD his chances this year, and he's not here next year so the only relevant question whether he can get his mojo back in this season -- and we've reached the literal last second for a guy who shows up to work every 5th day to put in some innings and prove that. He's got 4-5 possible starts between now and September and he's going to have to be lights out in all of them. We don't have TIME for more second chances.

 

The goal is to win as many games as possible, within reason. No, I currently do not trust Pom enough to start him in a crucial series like this one against the Yankees. But I am comfortable enough with our current lead to allow Pom another start or two to see if there's any chance of him returning to previous form.

 

If we were tied with the Yankees, I might agree that we don't have time for second chances. But being where we are, I think we afford to be a little more patient with him.

[kenmeister]

Velazquez is too valuable right where he is. Relievers that can throw multiple quality innings in any given game are pure gold.

 

And I think that's why he's not starting. I'm sure he rather would be, but yeah when the extra inning game turned to Velazquez, I was like, "Oh yeah, we're going to win for sure" and I was right.

[kenmeister]

As I said, Johnson's ERA was 5.33 at the end of May. What did you think of him then?

 

I thought he pitches much better as a starter than a reliever. That opinion hasn't changed.

[moonslav59]

Pomeranz may be working his way back to health. It's been known to happen.

 

Yes, and Pom showed us that after his disappointing second half of 2016 and return to form for all of 2017.

 

Yes, Pom needs to prove he's back. I'm not sure, if he needs to be "lights out" over his next 4-5 starts as DOJI suggests, but with Sale, Wright & ERod out, he's wiggled back into the picture. I hope he does not squander this chance.

 

You know he wants to do well with his impending free agency looming this winter.

[notin]

Yes, and Pom showed us that after his disappointing second half of 2016 and return to form for all of 2017.

 

Yes, Pom needs to prove he's back. I'm not sure, if he needs to be "lights out" over his next 4-5 starts as DOJI suggests, but with Sale, Wright & ERod out, he's wiggled back into the picture. I hope he does not squander this chance.

 

You know he wants to do well with his impending free agency looming this winter.

 

Powmeranz looked good in his last start. But that was on 6 days rest. That's not a luxury he will be getting the remainder of the season...

[Bellhorn04]

If Pomeranz pitches well his next time out and Johnson doesn't, 'the narrative will change' LOL

[kenmeister]

Powmeranz looked good in his last start. But that was on 6 days rest. That's not a luxury he will be getting the remainder of the season...

 

I thought he got lucky and escaped jams, but didn't look dominant.

[kenmeister]

If Pomeranz pitches well his next time out and Johnson doesn't, 'the narrative will change' LOL

 

Well either way it's going to get really interesting when Wright and Rodriguez return. I hope Eovaldi continues to make that a tough decision.

[moonslav59]

Powmeranz looked good in his last start. But that was on 6 days rest. That's not a luxury he will be getting the remainder of the season...

 

No, but we do have several days off this month, and presumably, Pom should be getting stronger as he moves away from his injury and rehab period.

[moonslav59]

I thought he got lucky and escaped jams, but didn't look dominant.

 

True.

 

BTW, Johnson has pitched well since joining the rotation, but he has allowed 14 Hits+BBs in his last 2 starts combined (8.2 IP). That isn't dominating either.

[Dojji]

I thought he got lucky and escaped jams, but didn't look dominant.

 

Yeah, but when a player is starting to recover from a stretch of terrible play, that's often what it looks like.

 

It's an improvement to me that Pomeranz actually got out of those jams. Because he wasn't doing that before. If you understand what I mean

[FredLynn]

Powmeranz looked good in his last start. But that was on 6 days rest. That's not a luxury he will be getting the remainder of the season...

 

I thought he looked BETTER, but still looked very marginal. Four walks and a hit batsman in his 95 pitches over five innings. Hardly the kind of starter I want on my team if other options are available. Velocity slightly up...occasionally.

[moonslav59]

It was a step in the right direction. Let's hope his next two starts show more improvement.

[FredLynn]

It was a step in the right direction. Let's hope his next two starts show more improvement.

 

Lets hope there aren't another two starts.......or even one.

[SoxHop]

What are people even talking about. Pomerance looked like crap that start and got lucky it wasn't a disaster.

 

I'd love more than anything else to see him get back to 2017 form. You have to trot him out there a few more times, you have to. I'd bet against him, but if he recovers he would be a huge asset.

 

Never understood the hate for him. For us it's best he succeeds and we currently have the luxury of giving him a chance to.

 

And he doesn't cover first well. Roll eyes...

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

I thought he got lucky and escaped jams, but didn't look dominant.

 

I agree. Johnson has earned the #5 spot. The alternative would be to start the game with Johnson; hope he goes 5 and then bring in POM. IOW, the SOX would have 2 #5's pitching in the same game. But, either way, I would have Johnson starting over POM.

[SoxHop]

I agree. Johnson has earned the #5 spot. The alternative would be to start the game with Johnson; hope he goes 5 and then bring in POM. IOW, the SOX would have 2 #5's pitching in the same game. But, either way, I would have Johnson starting over POM.

 

Quackery

[Kimmi]

What are people even talking about. Pomerance looked like crap that start and got lucky it wasn't a disaster.

 

I'd love more than anything else to see him get back to 2017 form. You have to trot him out there a few more times, you have to. I'd bet against him, but if he recovers he would be a huge asset.

 

Never understood the hate for him. For us it's best he succeeds and we currently have the luxury of giving him a chance to.

 

And he doesn't cover first well. Roll eyes...

 

^^This

[Fan_since_Boggs]

(1) A different set of expectations for a guy making 8.5M versus 500,000.

(2) It's great that Pomeranz had an excellent 2017 season, but he didn't exactly endear himself to Red Sox fans by laying an egg in the playoffs.

(3) Johnson was drafted and developed by the Red Sox -- fans usually feel a closer attachment (and more tolerance) for players like that.

(4) Brian Johnson has been a better pitcher this year.

(5) True, when we compare their last start, Pomeranz gave up 2 runs, Johnson gave up 4. But Johnson faced a better lineup on a bigger stage (the Yankees) and had better peripherals 2 BB and 11 Ks. In contrast, Pomeranz walked 4, hit 2 batters, and had 3 Ks. If we look at the peripherals, Johnson was quite impressive whereas Pomeranz was the same old s***.

[Kimmi]

(1) A different set of expectations for a guy making 8.5M versus 500,000.

(2) It's great that Pomeranz had an excellent 2017 season, but he didn't exactly endear himself to Red Sox fans by laying an egg in the playoffs.

(3) Johnson was drafted and developed by the Red Sox -- fans usually feel a closer attachment (and more tolerance) for players like that.

(4) Brian Johnson has been a better pitcher this year.

(5) True, when we compare their last start, Pomeranz gave up 2 runs, Johnson gave up 4. But Johnson faced a better lineup on a bigger stage (the Yankees) and had better peripherals 2 BB and 11 Ks. In contrast, Pomeranz walked 4, hit 2 batters, and had 3 Ks. If we look at the peripherals, Johnson was quite impressive whereas Pomeranz was the same old s***.

 

These are all fair points.

 

IMO, whether we like Pom or not, whether he is a better pitcher currently than Johnson or not, whether it's fair to Johnson or not, it is in the team's best interest to give Pom another start or two. If our situation were more dire in terms of current standings, I would probably say not, but I think we can afford to do so. I would keep him on a very short leash though.