The Boston Red Sox Have a Depth Problem

[CharlieWhigg]

https://redsoxunfiltered.com/2018/06/12/the-boston-red-sox-have-a-depth-problem/

 

The Sox have some really great hitters, but the depth hasn't been pulling their weight. Because of this, the offense just dies when JD, Benny, Bogey or Mookie go cold. Can the Sox fix this?

[Bellhorn04]

Problems are relative, other teams have them too, or we wouldn't have a 45-22 record. And the current slump has only been a few games long, really.

[moonslav59]

I disagree.

 

We have slumping players and players on the DL or being brought back slowly.

 

We have a nice bench.

 

We've been winning when Betts is out.

 

Bogey was our hottest hitter, when he went on the DL. We kept winning.

 

Have patience: Devers will adjust.

 

JBJ will have a hot streak.

 

Leon and Vaz have already been returning to .650-.750 hitting.

 

Nunez can do better, but I'm not sure if he's been affected by his injury too much.

 

Holt has done well off the bench, so far.

 

Our starting pitcher and pen depth has been fantastic.

 

[MADSTORK]

https://redsoxunfiltered.com/2018/06/12/the-boston-red-sox-have-a-depth-problem/

 

The Sox have some really great hitters, but the depth hasn't been pulling their weight. Because of this, the offense just dies when JD, Benny, Bogey or Mookie go cold. Can the Sox fix this?

 

 

Harper

[Youk Of The Nation]

Harper

 

Definitely, the Sox could easily get Harper. Pomeranz, Bradley and Swihart plus maybe thirty or forty bucks, maybe throw in a few Bed Bath and Beyond coupons and we're golden. I don't know why someone in the FO hasn't already taken care of this.

[fxkatt]

What we SEEM to be witnessing right now is a failure of position players to step up in the absence of big bats. If we do indeed have depth, it's up to them to prove it.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I disagree.

 

We have slumping players and players on the DL or being brought back slowly.

 

We have a nice bench.

 

We've been winning when Betts is out.

 

Bogey was our hottest hitter, when he went on the DL. We kept winning.

 

Have patience: Devers will adjust.

 

JBJ will have a hot streak.

 

Leon and Vaz have already been returning to .650-.750 hitting.

 

Nunez can do better, but I'm not sure if he's been affected by his injury too much.

 

Holt has done well off the bench, so far.

 

Our starting pitcher and pen depth has been fantastic.

 

 

I can understand and agree with most of your points except the one about JBJ. At this point he has been so bad any "hot streak" would have to be four months long to stabilize his numbers. He's just not hitting well. He's not even hitting poorly. He's just not hitting.

[moonslav59]

What we SEEM to be witnessing right now is a failure of position players to step up in the absence of big bats. If we do indeed have depth, it's up to them to prove it.

 

I view depth as the bench, but yes, our 6-9 hitters have done much worse than last year.

 

2018

slot

6 .718

7 .612

8 .571

9 .639

 

2017

slot

6 .750 (mostly Bogey, JBJ, Moreland, Devers, Young, HRam)

7 .693 (JBJ, Devers, Moreland, Vaz, Young, Rutledge, Pablo, leon)

8 .741 (Leon, Vaz, JBJ, Pablo, Young)

9 .640 (JBJ, Marrero, Vaz, Leon, Marco, Holt, Lin)

 

Wouldn't you think adding JD over Young (and HRam) would lengthen the line-up and improve the 6-9 slots?

 

Well, Bogey and Betts losing time didn't help,but this is the bigger culprit:

 

JBJ .726> .584

Vaz .735> .528

Leon .644> .639

Devers .819> .686

Nunez> .892> .632

 

 

[moonslav59]

I can understand and agree with most of your points except the one about JBJ. At this point he has been so bad any "hot streak" would have to be four months long to stabilize his numbers. He's just not hitting well. He's not even hitting poorly. He's just not hitting.

 

Not really. He "wasn't hitting" in 2016 or 2017 either, and then....

 

His hot streaks are usually Herculean.

 

Just last year, he was at .637 on May 23rd and got to .800 by June 11th and .850 on June 25th. Yes, he's got more PAs now than last May, but respectabilty is maybe .750 not .850.

[Larry Cook]

I think it is completely unrealistic to think this team can have depth when desperate Dave has drained the farm system in order to load up on front line starters and anchored us with tons of dead money.

 

We may have more dead money on the books than the entire rays payroll!

[Jasonbay44]

I think it is completely unrealistic to think this team can have depth when desperate Dave has drained the farm system in order to load up on front line starters and anchored us with tons of dead money.

 

We may have more dead money on the books than the entire rays payroll!

I mean most of the dead money is Pablo and Hanley and Dave didn't have anything to do with those signings.

[moonslav59]

I think it is completely unrealistic to think this team can have depth when desperate Dave has drained the farm system in order to load up on front line starters and anchored us with tons of dead money.

 

We may have more dead money on the books than the entire rays payroll!

 

Nobody is arguing about our lack of farm depth.

 

In terms of ML depth, how many teams have a better bench than this:

 

Moreland (He's now a FT'er, but he started as "depth")

 

Nunez (Playing FT due to Pedey's injury)

 

Holt (OPS over .800)

 

Leon (one of our hottest hitters over the last month)

 

Swihart (Okay, other teams are better here)

 

Pitching:

 

Our 6+ starters have been great (except for 1 start by Beeks)

 

Our pen has done great, despite all kinds of relievers going on the DL at some point this year.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nobody is arguing about our lack of farm depth.

 

In terms of ML depth, how many teams have a better bench than this:

 

Moreland (He's now a FT'er, but he started as "depth")

 

Nunez (Playing FT due to Pedey's injury)

 

Holt (OPS over .800)

 

Leon (one of our hottest hitters over the last month)

 

Swihart (Okay, other teams are better here)

 

Pitching:

 

Our 6+ starters have been great (except for 1 start by Beeks)

 

Our pen has done great, despite all kinds of relievers going on the DL at some point this year.

 

Your depth right now is Swihart, Leon, Holt/Nunez. The reason why I have Holt/Nunez there is one of them needs to man 2b. If you consider Holt a starter, the bench of Leon, Nunez and Swihart is absolutely abysmal. Many, many teams have better depth than that garbage

[notin]

Definitely, the Sox could easily get Harper. Pomeranz, Bradley and Swihart plus maybe thirty or forty bucks, maybe throw in a few Bed Bath and Beyond coupons and we're golden. I don't know why someone in the FO hasn't already taken care of this.

 

 

Oh God. Enough with these unrealistic trade proposals.

 

It would need to be at least $75 bucks and an Amazon gift card...

[moonslav59]

Your depth right now is Swihart, Leon, Holt/Nunez. The reason why I have Holt/Nunez there is one of them needs to man 2b. If you consider Holt a starter, the bench of Leon, Nunez and Swihart is absolutely abysmal. Many, many teams have better depth than that garbage

 

Leon is not "garbage". He's one of the best back-up catchers this team could have and needs.

 

Nunez is off to a poor start, but he's better than most teams' utility players.

 

Holt should be consider "bench", because Pedey is the starting 2Bman. Just because we are using Holt and Nunez at the moment, does not mean they are not considered depth.

 

I stand by my position that we have better depth than most teams.

 

(I see you left our pitcher depth.)

[OH FOY]

After this afternoon, we face teams with a total of 145 wins, and 112 losses, next 19 games. Then we face the bums again before AS Break.

 

This will tell me a lot more about the Sox.

Edited June 13, 2018 by OH FOY!

[OH FOY]

Take out the Twins and the Sox play 16 games with a total record of 116 wins, and 78 losses, of these teams.

[SoxHop]

After this afternoon, we face teams with a total of 145 wins, and 112 losses, next 19 games. Then we face the bums again before AS Break.

 

This will tell me a lot more about the Sox.

 

Seriously. Until the end of June is going to be a grind.

[OH FOY]

Seriously. Until the end of June is going to be a grind.

 

Agree, with a weird off day thrown in there.

[harmony]

After this afternoon, we face teams with a total of 145 wins, and 112 losses, next 19 games. Then we face the bums again before AS Break.

 

This will tell me a lot more about the Sox.

I feel the same way about the Seattle Mariners, who this week opened a stretch of 13 games against the Angels (3), Red Sox (7) and Yankees (3) before the M's close out a 10-game East Coast road trip with four games in Baltimore.

 

The Mariners could have lost all 17 games to drop to .500 but instead have beaten the Angels twice this week to move a half game up on the Astros and 6.5 games up on the Halos. The M's remain 2.5 games behind the Red Sox, whom they would meet in the Wild Card game if the season ended at this point (and if the Yankees took the AL East title by percentage points).

 

FanGraphs currently gives the Mariners a 67 percent chance of advancing to the postseason for the first time since 2001 (despite a projected sub-.500 record the remainder of the season):

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds

 

We should have a better idea of where the Mariners stand at the end of the month.

 

BTW, I wish I could see the Red Sox play in Seattle this weekend but I'll be attending a family reunion in conjunction with my daughter's college graduation in California. I had hoped to see the Athletics host the Astros tomorrow afternoon but instead will attend yet another graduation celebration for my daughter. I still have hopes of seeing the Giants host the Marlins next Tuesday evening.

[Maxbialystock]

In my opinion, a silly thread. Our depth is fine. Our hitting is 2d in MLB in OPS and runs scored. Our pitching is now 5th in ERA which will likely improve because Wright replaced POM. In fact, it is probably the 2d best rotation in MLB after the Astros. The Sox still have a winning record when Mookie is out.

 

I honestly don't want to "fix" this team even though it has weaknesses--which everyone has, just not the same weaknesses.

 

Did I mention the Sox have 3 more wins than any other team in MLB? I mean, how bad can we be?

[moonslav59]

In my opinion, a silly thread. Our depth is fine. Our hitting is 2d in MLB in OPS and runs scored. Our pitching is now 5th in ERA which will likely improve because Wright replaced POM. In fact, it is probably the 2d best rotation in MLB after the Astros. The Sox still have a winning record when Mookie is out.

 

I honestly don't want to "fix" this team even though it has weaknesses--which everyone has, just not the same weaknesses.

 

Did I mention the Sox have 3 more wins than any other team in MLB? I mean, how bad can we be?

 

There's no glaring weakness. We have areas that are way stronger than others, and upgrading a less strong area makes sense, but I think waiting until the deadline will help us identify which area is best suited for an upgrade- if any.

 

[Dojji]

Thing is, I can't actually identify a spot where a big trade would radically improve the team. I mean everyone wants another starting pitcher or power bullpen arm, but look down the line -- what do we actually need? The only valid answer is "the kind of two way catching stud that can't be bought for love or money."

 

Short of the Royals hosting an epic fire sale and dealing Salvador Perez for a king's ransom, I just don't even see a fantastic possibility here for the kind of upgrade at catcher that would be worth ditching the adequate guys we have.

 

(and yes, if the Royals make Salvy available, DD should jump on it with both feet, he's one of the few catchers out there who represents an obvious instant upgrade on both sides of the ball, but I doubt the Royals do this)

Edited June 13, 2018 by Dojji

[moonslav59]

Thing is, I can't actually identify a spot where a big trade would radically improve the team. I mean everyone wants another starting pitcher or power bullpen arm, but look down the line -- what do we actually need? The only valid answer is "the kind of two way catching stud that can't be bought for love or money."

 

Short of the Royals hosting an epic fire sale and dealing Salvador Perez for a king's ransom, I just don't even see a fantastic possibility here for the kind of upgrade at catcher that would be worth ditching the adequate guys we have.

 

(and yes, if the Royals make Salvy available, DD should jump on it with both feet, he's one of the few catchers out there who represents an obvious instant upgrade on both sides of the ball, but I doubt the Royals do this)

 

We don't have what it takes to get "Salvy".

[oldtimer]

There's no glaring weakness. We have areas that are way stronger than others, and upgrading a less strong area makes sense, but I think waiting until the deadline will help us identify which area is best suited for an upgrade- if any.

 

 

Thats exactly the approach I recommend. We know we have very limited resources available both in financials and in tradeable assets. There are some weak areas and perhaps an unknown with Pedroia. We may sustain other injuries in the next period. Clearly we all want to improve the team under these constraints. No great rush but a willingness to make needed moves is important and I think DD and Cora are people wiling to take action as they did with Hanley.

[notin]

There's no glaring weakness. We have areas that are way stronger than others, and upgrading a less strong area makes sense, but I think waiting until the deadline will help us identify which area is best suited for an upgrade- if any.

 

 

Or see if thre is an injury between now and then.

 

Any deals made for slight upgrades between now and the deadline likely deplete the Sox limited trade resources unnecessarily...

[moonslav59]

Or see if thre is an injury between now and then.

 

Any deals made for slight upgrades between now and the deadline likely deplete the Sox limited trade resources unnecessarily...

 

Yes, we don't want to use up all our budget space either to make a slight upgrade only to have an injury mess us up.

[CharlieWhigg]

Leon is not "garbage". He's one of the best back-up catchers this team could have and needs.

 

Nunez is off to a poor start, but he's better than most teams' utility players.

 

Holt should be consider "bench", because Pedey is the starting 2Bman. Just because we are using Holt and Nunez at the moment, does not mean they are not considered depth.

 

I stand by my position that we have better depth than most teams.

 

(I see you left our pitcher depth.)

 

Leon is a servicable backup, but that's all he is. The Sox catchers have the worst WAR in baseball, and Leon's a decent part of that. When Pedroia's healthy, Nunez is a bench player. However, Pedroia's only played in two games all year, and nobody knows when he's coming back. So for the foreseeable future, Nunez can't really be considered part of the bench.

 

And yeah, the pitchers are great. The offensive depth, that's a bit of an issue. The bench is only Swihart, Leon, and Holt.

[moonslav59]

Leon is a servicable backup, but that's all he is. The Sox catchers have the worst WAR in baseball, and Leon's a decent part of that. When Pedroia's healthy, Nunez is a bench player. However, Pedroia's only played in two games all year, and nobody knows when he's coming back. So for the foreseeable future, Nunez can't really be considered part of the bench.

 

And yeah, the pitchers are great. The offensive depth, that's a bit of an issue. The bench is only Swihart, Leon, and Holt.

 

We're catcher 28th now in fWAR, which doesn't factor in how catchers get the most out of their staff. Our catchers are warming up.

 

Nunez is part of our bench. He's covering while Pedey is out.

 

If Pedey never returns, then our bench helped us.

 

Moreland started on the bench, but now that we cut HRam, he's not. As far as I know, Pedey is still on the roster.

[CharlieWhigg]

Thing is, I can't actually identify a spot where a big trade would radically improve the team. I mean everyone wants another starting pitcher or power bullpen arm, but look down the line -- what do we actually need? The only valid answer is "the kind of two way catching stud that can't be bought for love or money."

 

Short of the Royals hosting an epic fire sale and dealing Salvador Perez for a king's ransom, I just don't even see a fantastic possibility here for the kind of upgrade at catcher that would be worth ditching the adequate guys we have.

 

(and yes, if the Royals make Salvy available, DD should jump on it with both feet, he's one of the few catchers out there who represents an obvious instant upgrade on both sides of the ball, but I doubt the Royals do this)

We could use another outfielder. Benny, Mookie, and JD are our three best position players, and there's a massive drop in talent from them to the next outfielder up. Holt's been good, but he's historically suffered massive production drops when he's asked to be anything more than a bench player. And Swihart doesn't look like he'll do much of anything, at least this year