Swihart requests a trade

[notin]

.....Blake is just fine at Catcher it's ******** he's not playing behind the dish ...f*** Sandy Leon forever .

 

What exactly do you see in Swihart that apparently all the Sox scouts and upper management and coaches don't see? And when did you see it?

[Natick to NC]

What exactly do you see in Swihart that apparently all the Sox scouts and upper management and coaches don't see? And when did you see it?

 

I've seen enough of him to KNOW he's better .....100 percent KNOW....yes I caught .The guy needs reps and that is all he needs .Sandy has failed this team and Vaz isn't far behind ...Blake was never given Sandys reps if they did he would take the f*** off.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Natick to NC

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I'm also in the camp of believing that Sandy Leon should go. I wouldn't hesitate to release/trade Leon and give the backup C job to Swihart. I would certainly do that before trading Swihart for nothing. True, maybe I'll change my mind if I watch Swihart behind the dish for an extended period of games, and maybe I'll reach the same conclusion the Red Sox have seemed to reach regarding Swihart's defensive skills, but I'm not there yet. Moreover, the Red Sox have a defensive catcher in Vazquez, they can afford a less efficient defensive catcher behind Vazquez with the hope that Swihart can develop as a hitter and add a little offense to the lineup.

 

What's the worse that could happen? You release/trade a fringy Sandy Leon and give Swihart an opportunity at C. If it doesn't work out, you trade Swihart and find a no hit defensive catcher somewhere to backup Vazquez. Thus, if this scenario plays out, you've lost Sandy Leon and maybe can't get him back. If that happens, so what? The Red Sox aren't going to win the World Series this year because they dumped Sandy Leon?

Edited May 17, 2018 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Natick to NC]

I'm also in the camp of believing that Sandy Leon should go. I wouldn't hesitate to release/trade Leon and give the backup C job to Swihart. I would certainly do that before trading Swihart for nothing. True, maybe I'll change my mind if I watch Swihart behind the dish for an extended period of games, and maybe I'll reach the same conclusion the Red Sox have seemed to reach regarding Swihart's defensive skills, but I'm not there yet. Moreover, the Red Sox have a defensive catcher in Vazquez, they can afford a less efficient defensive catcher behind Vazquez with the hope that Swihart can develop as a hitter and add a little offense to the lineup.

 

What's the worse that could happen? You release/trade a fringy Sandy Leon and give Swihart an opportunity at C. If it doesn't work out, you trade Swihart and find a no hit defensive catcher somewhere to backup Vazquez. Thus, if this scenario plays out, you've lost Sandy Leon and maybe can't get him back. If that happens, so what? The Red Sox aren't going to win the World Series this year because they dumped Sandy Leon?

 

Fantastic post ...Agree with everything said and the attention to the future .

[moonslav59]

I'm also in the camp of believing that Sandy Leon should go. I wouldn't hesitate to release/trade Leon and give the backup C job to Swihart. I would certainly do that before trading Swihart for nothing. True, maybe I'll change my mind if I watch Swihart behind the dish for an extended period of games, and maybe I'll reach the same conclusion the Red Sox have seemed to reach regarding Swihart's defensive skills, but I'm not there yet. Moreover, the Red Sox have a defensive catcher in Vazquez, they can afford a less efficient defensive catcher behind Vazquez with the hope that Swihart can develop as a hitter and add a little offense to the lineup.

 

What's the worse that could happen? You release/trade a fringy Sandy Leon and give Swihart an opportunity at C. If it doesn't work out, you trade Swihart and find a no hit defensive catcher somewhere to backup Vazquez. Thus, if this scenario plays out, you've lost Sandy Leon and maybe can't get him back. If that happens, so what? The Red Sox aren't going to win the World Series this year because they dumped Sandy Leon?

 

You can't just decide later, after Swihart bombs and proves he can't handle the staff, to get another defensive catcher that can quickly build rapport with our pitchers in time for the playoffs.

 

Maybe I'm wrong about how much "rapport" matters, but I'll go to my grave believing it is real and important, depite not being quantifiable.

[mvp 78]

I've seen enough of him to KNOW he's better .....100 percent KNOW....yes I caught .The guy needs reps and that is all he needs .Sandy has failed this team and Vaz isn't far behind ...Blake was never given Sandys reps if they did he would take the f*** off.

 

So you’ve seen it even though he hasn’t had the reps to show it?

[moonslav59]

So you’ve seen it even though he hasn’t had the reps to show it?

 

LOL.

 

Maybe ST'ing proved something....like those who thought Betts was toast based on a March slump.

[SoxHop]

I'm at the point I'm just going to blow my brains out if Swihart is mentioned as the fix again.

[moonslav59]

I'm at the point I'm just going to blow my brains out if Swihart is mentioned as the fix again.

 

I can see how a team catching OPS of .441 this year can spur a discussion on giving our 3rd string catcher a shot, assuming he even is 3rd on the organizational long term catcher depth chart, but it's the surety of the Swihart support claims that has us thinking about reaching for a gun.

 

BTW, it wouldn't be my own brains I'd be aiming at- hypothetically speaking, of course.

 

[Larry Cook]

Watching my Vazquez and Leon contribute minimal offense game in and game out is so frustrating.

 

Swihart’s timing is off due to lack of regular at bats. But I think he can hit. So we need to put him behind the plate for a few games and if he hits, we send Leon to the twins.

[moonslav59]

Watching my Vazquez and Leon contribute minimal offense game in and game out is so frustrating.

 

Swihart’s timing is off due to lack of regular at bats. But I think he can hit. So we need to put him behind the plate for a few games and if he hits, we send Leon to the twins.

 

The thing is a "few games" proves nothing. Even if Swihart goes 10 for 25, it might end up hurting us in the long run.

 

Just a hypothetical question, would Swihart playing 2 out of 4 games and hitting .270 (.750 OPS) be a plus, if our team ERA went up by 0.50 in games he plays due to his defense?

[Slasher9]

.....Blake is just fine at Catcher it's ******** he's not playing behind the dish ...f*** Sandy Leon forever .

 

Wow. What did sandy ever do to you?

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

The Sox had a good stretch of some elite prospect development. Look at their starting lineup. When Pedroia returns, only JD will remain as the sole starter who wasn't scouted, drafted/signed and developed within the Sox minor leagues.

 

But even highly ranked prospects fail, and that isn't the fault of the system. It happens to every team. 30% of all first round picks never make the majors. And about 30% of all BA Top 100 prospects never make the majors for more than a brief call up or a September roster expansion. It's just part of the attrition of the game, and a complete overhaul won't change it...

 

+1.

[cp176]

I'm also in the camp of believing that Sandy Leon should go. I wouldn't hesitate to release/trade Leon and give the backup C job to Swihart. I would certainly do that before trading Swihart for nothing. True, maybe I'll change my mind if I watch Swihart behind the dish for an extended period of games, and maybe I'll reach the same conclusion the Red Sox have seemed to reach regarding Swihart's defensive skills, but I'm not there yet. Moreover, the Red Sox have a defensive catcher in Vazquez, they can afford a less efficient defensive catcher behind Vazquez with the hope that Swihart can develop as a hitter and add a little offense to the lineup.

 

What's the worse that could happen? You release/trade a fringy Sandy Leon and give Swihart an opportunity at C. If it doesn't work out, you trade Swihart and find a no hit defensive catcher somewhere to backup Vazquez. Thus, if this scenario plays out, you've lost Sandy Leon and maybe can't get him back. If that happens, so what? The Red Sox aren't going to win the World Series this year because they dumped Sandy Leon?

 

I'm pretty sure that it would be good for this team to have at least one guy behind the plate who can catch just a little but I am curious as to why Vazquez here appears to win the "go to catcher" award. I see very little difference between the two if there is any difference at all. Perfect case scenario both of these guys are backup catchers. They are solid defensive catchers. I don't think that we need them both but you have to have someone who can at least come close to getting it done in a backup role. Doesn't look as though Swihart is going to get the nod anytime soon.

[mvp 78]

I'm pretty sure that it would be good for this team to have at least one guy behind the plate who can catch just a little but I am curious as to why Vazquez here appears to win the "go to catcher" award. I see very little difference between the two if there is any difference at all. Perfect case scenario both of these guys are backup catchers. They are solid defensive catchers. I don't think that we need them both but you have to have someone who can at least come close to getting it done in a backup role. Doesn't look as though Swihart is going to get the nod anytime soon.

 

Why? Because he signed a three year extension in March.

[cp176]

Why? Because he signed a three year extension in March.

 

Ok - now I get it. I'm a simple minded guy for sure. I still wish that it was all about the talent. lol

[moonslav59]

Ok - now I get it. I'm a simple minded guy for sure. I still wish that it was all about the talent. lol

 

I do think they extended Vaz, because the feel he has "the talent" to be our #1 catcher for 3 years. They probably aren't looking at the same criteria we are.

 

I'm sure they are concerned about the sub .500 OPS. I doubt they expected or continue to expect this offense for 3 years. If Vaz continues hitting under .500, maybe their formula tells them he's no longer a plus, and they'll look elsewhere, but I'm almost certain they will not be looking in Swihart's direction no matter how much some posters here want them to do.

 

As you know, catching is not all about throwing out runners, blocking wild pitches, pitch-framing and calling pitches.

 

Coming from a person sometimes criticized for being too numbers orientated, this is one area not quantifiable with easy to access data. A catcher's rapport with his pitchers is extremely important, and each pitcher's comfort level with their catcher is something to take seriously. Can our staff quickly adjust to a new catcher? Maybe- probably, but how long would it take? Might we lose a few games during the learning curve all for a couple more hits per week?

 

I'm not saying I'm happy with our .441 catcher OPS. It stinks! If it's still at .450 in a month or two, I might feel differently, but it looks like we've already made adjustments to lessen JBJ's poor offense's affect on our team, and Pedey should help improve our 2B offense. I'm thinking we should leave our catcher situation as is for quite a while longer and see how the offense looks as we near the trade deadline.

 

I'm not even sure, if DD and Cora are terribly alarmed by our catcher situation at this point. I'm sure they are concerned, but they may not even be close to thinking of replacements.

[S5Dewey]

There are some things I just plain don't understand. I honestly don't have a man-crush on Swihart - I have no vested interest in whether he plays or doesn't play - but I do think the FO is overlooking something or else there's something going on with Swihart that we're not seeing. How does a player go from being the #1 catcher (ahead of Leon) when Vaz needed TJ surgery to being expendable now?

 

IIRC Swi's biggest problem was in blocking balls in the dirt and his biggest asset was with his bat. Has he forgotten how to hit? Isn't it worthwhile to work with a catcher who can hit (for a catcher) to help him in blocking balls in the dirt?

 

There are some things I just plain don't understand, I guess.

[Slasher9]

There are some things I just plain don't understand. I honestly don't have a man-crush on Swihart - I have no vested interest in whether he plays or doesn't play - but I do think the FO is overlooking something or else there's something going on with Swihart that we're not seeing. How does a player go from being the #1 catcher (ahead of Leon) when Vaz needed TJ surgery to being expendable now?

 

IIRC Swi's biggest problem was in blocking balls in the dirt and his biggest asset was with his bat. Has he forgotten how to hit? Isn't it worthwhile to work with a catcher who can hit (for a catcher) to help him in blocking balls in the dirt?

 

There are some things I just plain don't understand, I guess.

 

it is a very bizarre situation. 2 years ago he was our starting Catcher. there just has to be more to it than we know.....

[notin]

it is a very bizarre situation. 2 years ago he was our starting Catcher. there just has to be more to it than we know.....

 

He started 78 games at catcher for Boston in 2015 and only 6 since.

 

Really he probably only started that many because Vazquez was out that year and the Sox didn't have anyone better and very little time to get anyone else. Vazquez was ahead of him in the catching queue when the Sox finally gave up on AJ Pierzynski in 2014.

 

In fact, it might have been the play of Swihart behind the plate that lead to the acquisition of Leon...

 

And Sandy Leon did not arrive until midway through 2015, where he played sparsely. He followed that up with a 2016 season in which his superior defense and a crazy BABIP-fueled hot streak appears to have launched him ahead of Swihart in the depth chart.

Edited May 17, 2018 by notin

[moonslav59]

There are some things I just plain don't understand. I honestly don't have a man-crush on Swihart - I have no vested interest in whether he plays or doesn't play - but I do think the FO is overlooking something or else there's something going on with Swihart that we're not seeing. How does a player go from being the #1 catcher (ahead of Leon) when Vaz needed TJ surgery to being expendable now?

 

IIRC Swi's biggest problem was in blocking balls in the dirt and his biggest asset was with his bat. Has he forgotten how to hit? Isn't it worthwhile to work with a catcher who can hit (for a catcher) to help him in blocking balls in the dirt?

 

There are some things I just plain don't understand, I guess.

 

When they gave Swihart his chance in 2015, he was rushed into the job. That's the biggest factor in his favor, as far as I'm concerned. His recent offensive numbers at that point we very promising for a catcher:

 

.794 in A+ 2013

.810 in AA & AAA in 2014

 

While some of his more recent offensive struggles can be attributed to injury and rehabbing from injury, he's shown no glimpses of good offense, except for spring training.

 

BTW, Swihart's back-up in 2015 was more Hanigan than Leon.

 

I still think Swihart started the 2016, because Vaz was not ready, and although the chance was very short, the Sox had let up 7 or more runs in their first 8 games. I'm thinking that was just a symptom of what management had feared all along with Swihart.

[moonslav59]

He started 78 games at catcher for Boston in 2015 and 0 since.

 

.

 

He started 6 games to start 2016 and 19 total in 2016.

[moonslav59]

it is a very bizarre situation. 2 years ago he was our starting Catcher. there just has to be more to it than we know.....

 

He was our starting catcher due to injuries.

[mvp 78]

There are some things I just plain don't understand. I honestly don't have a man-crush on Swihart - I have no vested interest in whether he plays or doesn't play - but I do think the FO is overlooking something or else there's something going on with Swihart that we're not seeing. How does a player go from being the #1 catcher (ahead of Leon) when Vaz needed TJ surgery to being expendable now?

 

IIRC Swi's biggest problem was in blocking balls in the dirt and his biggest asset was with his bat. Has he forgotten how to hit? Isn't it worthwhile to work with a catcher who can hit (for a catcher) to help him in blocking balls in the dirt?

 

There are some things I just plain don't understand, I guess.

 

He was a starting C all last year in Pawtucket. The results were fairly poor. I think the Sox saw the writing on the wall that his development at C was just not working out and they wanted to move on.

[mvp 78]

When they gave Swihart his chance in 2015, he was rushed into the job. That's the biggest factor in his favor, as far as I'm concerned. His recent offensive numbers at that point we very promising for a catcher:

 

.794 in A+ 2013

.810 in AA & AAA in 2014

 

While some of his more recent offensive struggles can be attributed to injury and rehabbing from injury, he's shown no glimpses of good offense, except for spring training.

 

BTW, Swihart's back-up in 2015 was more Hanigan than Leon.

 

I still think Swihart started the 2016, because Vaz was not ready, and although the chance was very short, the Sox had let up 7 or more runs in their first 8 games. I'm thinking that was just a symptom of what management had feared all along with Swihart.

 

You're being too kind. He had a miserable OPS of 538 last year in AAA. The only reason he's on the team is because he is out of options. He's not deserving of a MLB roster spot right now.

[notin]

He started 6 games to start 2016 and 19 total in 2016.

 

I updated that already. But really they have not wanted him behind the plate through 2 managers now...

[S5Dewey]

You're being too kind. He had a miserable OPS of 538 last year in AAA. The only reason he's on the team is because he is out of options. He's not deserving of a MLB roster spot right now.

 

He's somewhat stuck in no-man's land right now, somewhat like Machado but for different reasons. IMO the Sox would like nothing better than to send him down to Pawtucket to try to salvage his career but they can't because of the options thing.

 

Of course the reason players are limited to three option years is to prevent the FO from storing quality players in AAA until they're needed but this is an example of how the options clause works against some players.

[OH FOY]

2011 he was Drafted, by 2014 he was in Triple AAA putting up good numbers Offensively and Defensively.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=swihar000bla

The plan was him to be #1 and Vaz the Back-up.

The injury really set him back. With the bat, and behind the plate.

Read his Defensive Numbers all the way up to 2014, they are very good, and equals or is better than Vaz in throwing out Runners, in the Minors.

 

In 2014 he had 0 Passed Balls.

Sox after Theo left, screwed this up, and they will screw this up if he gets Traded. I would want out this organization too, if I was him.

Edited May 17, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

He was our starting catcher due to injuries.

 

Yeah, it's not exactly rocket surgery...

[OH FOY]

Also put up decent numbers for someone who was rushed into a job. Weren't we last place that year, only good sign for a crummy team. Edited May 17, 2018 by OH FOY!