The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[S5Dewey]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this but I thought some might find it interesting.

 

MLB History Is Being Made This Season

 

Did you know..

 

So far this year, for the first time in MLB history, if you attend or watch a game you have a better chance of seeing a strikeout (25.1%) than you do a base hit (24.6%).

[illinoisredsox]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this but I thought some might find it interesting.

 

MLB History Is Being Made This Season

 

Did you know..

 

So far this year, for the first time in MLB history, if you attend or watch a game you have a better chance of seeing a strikeout (25.1%) than you do a base hit (24.6%).

 

Interesting is not the adjective I would use to describe this; disgusting seems a better descriptor.

[Bellhorn04]

Interesting is not the adjective I would use to describe this; disgusting seems a better descriptor.

 

C'est la vie. There are also a lot more home runs and the two pretty much cancel each other out in terms of runs scored.

 

If you go a major league game you can still expect to see an average of about 9 runs scored, and that's pretty much 'same as it ever was'.

 

The real culprit in some of these changes is undoubtedly all the defensive shifts that encourage players to just swing for the fences. Launch angle, baby!

[Slasher9]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this but I thought some might find it interesting.

 

MLB History Is Being Made This Season

 

Did you know..

 

So far this year, for the first time in MLB history, if you attend or watch a game you have a better chance of seeing a strikeout (25.1%) than you do a base hit (24.6%).

That is crazy.

How many would Nolan Ryan have ended up having if his pitching career started today?.

[Bellhorn04]

That is crazy.

How many would Nolan Ryan have ended up having if his pitching career started today?.

 

The same or less - because they wouldn't let him pitch 300 freakin' innings in a season LOL

[Maxbialystock]

I love disagreeing with S5Dewey, but on this one I emphatically agree because I think this trend reflects the other trend to go for dingers first, last, and always. Yes, you score as much, but to me the entertainment value is less. I like the action of a struck ball in play--an out, a single, a double, a triple, a great defensive play, a GIDP, whatever. K's can be cool, but don't lead to involvement by other players. Same goes for dingers, which can of course be fantastic, but also don't lead to involvement, action, etc. Scoring does decide who wins and who loses, but the fun part is how you get those runs and/or prevent them.

 

On another thread we discussed whether MLB should outlaw those shifts, which are definitely preventing hits and encouraged teams/players to go fr the fences, which to me is a lesser game. So right now I kind of like the notion of limiting how much you can shift because I resent how statisticians and sabermetrics can take over our national pastime.

[Slasher9]

The same or less - because they wouldn't let him pitch 300 freakin' innings in a season LOL

 

Ha. Good point!

[oldtimer]

I love disagreeing with S5Dewey, but on this one I emphatically agree because I think this trend reflects the other trend to go for dingers first, last, and always. Yes, you score as much, but to me the entertainment value is less. I like the action of a struck ball in play--an out, a single, a double, a triple, a great defensive play, a GIDP, whatever. K's can be cool, but don't lead to involvement by other players. Same goes for dingers, which can of course be fantastic, but also don't lead to involvement, action, etc. Scoring does decide who wins and who loses, but the fun part is how you get those runs and/or prevent them.

 

On another thread we discussed whether MLB should outlaw those shifts, which are definitely preventing hits and encouraged teams/players to go fr the fences, which to me is a lesser game. So right now I kind of like the notion of limiting how much you can shift because I resent how statisticians and sabermetrics can take over our national pastime.

 

The option to limiting shifts would be to take contracts with guys who hit to all fields. You SOBs want to shift on me? I'll go the other way!

[Maxbialystock]

The option to limiting shifts would be to take contracts with guys who hit to all fields. You SOBs want to shift on me? I'll go the other way!

 

Throw me in the briar patch, please. The problem is the stats guys keep saying the best option is to go over the shift, not away from it.

 

One of the first shifted against--by Lou Boudreau of the Guardians--was Ted Williams. He did experiment with going the other way of course, but in the end decided he was better off just making solid contact, which basically meant pulling the ball. He did hit .388 when he was 38.

[oldtimer]

Throw me in the briar patch, please. The problem is the stats guys keep saying the best option is to go over the shift, not away from it.

 

One of the first shifted against--by Lou Boudreau of the Guardians--was Ted Williams. He did experiment with going the other way of course, but in the end decided he was better off just making solid contact, which basically meant pulling the ball. He did hit .388 when he was 38.

 

I followed Williams career from the 40's on. Yes, they did shift against him and he still pulled the ball. So few hitters have Williams talent to hit the ball consistently hard. Guys like Molitar could hit the ball where he wanted and it was an advantage for him. The shifts are so lopsided the field on one side is nearly wide open. The stat guys only work based on past performances. Adjusting swings to hit the other way would curtail the use of such accentuated shifts. Even buts laid down properly would be easy base hits.

[SoxHop]

I followed Williams career from the 40's on. Yes, they did shift against him and he still pulled the ball. So few hitters have Williams talent to hit the ball consistently hard. Guys like Molitar could hit the ball where he wanted and it was an advantage for him. The shifts are so lopsided the field on one side is nearly wide open. The stat guys only work based on past performances. Adjusting swings to hit the other way would curtail the use of such accentuated shifts. Even buts laid down properly would be easy base hits.

 

Most of the time in sports the plan is to pound the opponents weak points until they show they can adjust consistantly.

 

If it were so easy to adjust, Moreland would be have learned to bunt down to third with consantancy. Just one example.

[Spudboy]

Most of the time in sports the plan is to pound the opponents weak points until they show they can adjust consistantly.

 

If it were so easy to adjust, Moreland would be have learned to bunt down to third with consantancy. Just one example.

 

That is kind of an odd example, though. Maybe he could learn a sac bunt but why? He is a power hitter that should be hitting seeds for 2 bags.

 

Also, he has no speed to try to get to first in time not to be out.

 

Not busting your balls Bud. I see your point.

[SoxHop]

That is kind of an odd example, though. Maybe he could learn a sac bunt but why? He is a power hitter that should be hitting seeds for 2 bags.

 

Also, he has no speed to try to get to first in time not to be out.

 

Not busting your balls Bud. I see your point.

 

You're right. Not the best example. But in general. Learning to not just hit in your comfort swing wheelhouse and to put it in play somewhere else is not an easy thing. If it was, we woudn't see shifts.

 

At some point the adjustment to the adjustment may be the norm. JDM may be a good example.

[a700hitter]

You're right. Not the best example. But in general. Learning to not just hit in your comfort swing wheelhouse and to put it in play somewhere else is not an easy thing. If it was, we woudn't see shifts.

 

At some point the adjustment to the adjustment may be the norm. JDM may be a good example.

Will you be changing your username to SoxHob?

[SoxHop]

Will you be changing your username to SoxHob?

 

Reluctantly, I will be.

 

And I don't want to hear any jokes about how "I hob, you hob, we all hob for Soxhob" makes no sense.

[notin]

I love disagreeing with S5Dewey, but on this one I emphatically agree because I think this trend reflects the other trend to go for dingers first, last, and always. Yes, you score as much, but to me the entertainment value is less. I like the action of a struck ball in play--an out, a single, a double, a triple, a great defensive play, a GIDP, whatever. K's can be cool, but don't lead to involvement by other players. Same goes for dingers, which can of course be fantastic, but also don't lead to involvement, action, etc. Scoring does decide who wins and who loses, but the fun part is how you get those runs and/or prevent them.

 

On another thread we discussed whether MLB should outlaw those shifts, which are definitely preventing hits and encouraged teams/players to go fr the fences, which to me is a lesser game. So right now I kind of like the notion of limiting how much you can shift because I resent how statisticians and sabermetrics can take over our national pastime.

 

 

The statisticians and sabermetricians wouldn't have the same impact if there wasn't something to it.

 

I would hate to see shifts eliminated or limited. It's a defensive alignment teams use to position defenders where teams feel they are needed most. That would be like the NBA limiting the number of times you can use the zone or the NFL eliminating using the prevent defense. Like any defensive alignment, opposing players will have to learn to adjust and do something different. Or just deal wIth the end results and hope for the best.

 

I think the best thing top do is ignore the shift and just got the ball as hard as you can. Even with one extra defender on the pull side, there will still be limited opportunities to field a hard hit ball and make a play...

[Maxbialystock]

The statisticians and sabermetricians wouldn't have the same impact if there wasn't something to it.

 

I would hate to see shifts eliminated or limited. It's a defensive alignment teams use to position defenders where teams feel they are needed most. That would be like the NBA limiting the number of times you can use the zone or the NFL eliminating using the prevent defense. Like any defensive alignment, opposing players will have to learn to adjust and do something different. Or just deal wIth the end results and hope for the best.

 

I think the best thing top do is ignore the shift and just got the ball as hard as you can. Even with one extra defender on the pull side, there will still be limited opportunities to field a hard hit ball and make a play...

 

Agree. My heartburn is with the stats guys dictating exactly what the defensive placements should be and the concomitant dictate that the best counter strategy is to swing for the fences. Thus all this talk about hitters developing some kind of upper cut in their swing. That's not the same as wanting to hit the ball hard.

[a700hitter]

Launch angle. Fancy name to make us believe that this is new to the game. When I was 11 years old, I read Ted Williams “My Turn At Bat”. He discussed how the perfect swing had a slight uppercut. I think he even mentioned the angle. He also mentioned how the the angle had to be increased when hitting the eephus pitch i.e. “blooper pitch”.

 

There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to baseball unless theee is a rule change. In 130 years baseball were able to dope out the odds and probabilities (which are actually quite simple) in their heads. They like to think they came up with a new theory. They haven’t. They are overusing the launch angle theory. Fast guys with 10-15 HR power need to put the ball on the line or the ground and learn to hit the ball the other way to maximize their game.

[Slasher9]

Baseball factories (ie Club teams/travel teams) are teaching launch angle/uppercut swings from 10u on up. I do for my 12u team. The days of flat plane/keeping the barrel in the plane of pitch as long as possible are over. It’s a new game and I don’t think it will ever go back unless they deaden the baseballs for an extended time period.....

[a700hitter]

Baseball factories (ie Club teams/travel teams) are teaching launch angle/uppercut swings from 10u on up. I do for my 12u team. The days of flat plane/keeping the barrel in the plane of pitch as long as possible are over. It’s a new game and I don’t think it will ever go back unless they deaden the baseballs for an extended time period.....

It is not new. The only change is that players with WTP are doing it too. LOL

[Maxbialystock]

Launch angle. Fancy name to make us believe that this is new to the game. When I was 11 years old, I read Ted Williams “My Turn At Bat”. He discussed how the perfect swing had a slight uppercut. I think he even mentioned the angle. He also mentioned how the the angle had to be increased when hitting the eephus pitch i.e. “blooper pitch”.

 

There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to baseball unless theee is a rule change. In 130 years baseball were able to dope out the odds and probabilities (which are actually quite simple) in their heads. They like to think they came up with a new theory. They haven’t. They are overusing the launch angle theory. Fast guys with 10-15 HR power need to put the ball on the line or the ground and learn to hit the ball the other way to maximize their game.

 

Interesting. I do remember watching Ted hit, and he hit the ball hard, really hard, but not necessarily with an uppercut. And only one guy threw the ephus pitch. I do think this is a trend because the shifts are very different from before and used much more often, with the unhappy result of too many guys wanting to get loft on the ball to hit if over the shift not thru it.

[Slasher9]

June 11th

starting Nunez over Holt was a terrible job my Rookie Manager Cora.

his hands are a bit tied with the Pedroia situation but there was ZERO reason to start nunez over holt last night.

[a700hitter]

Interesting. I do remember watching Ted hit, and he hit the ball hard, really hard, but not necessarily with an uppercut. And only one guy threw the ephus pitch. I do think this is a trend because the shifts are very different from before and used much more often, with the unhappy result of too many guys wanting to get loft on the ball to hit if over the shift not thru it.

It was a slight uppercut 4-8 degrees. It was about making contact not about launching the ball. His theory was that since the pitch was on a downward trajectory that a slight uppercut had the bat in the hitting plane for the maximum time. In his book My Turn At Bat, he mentioned that to hit the eephus pith that you should increase the angle to about 15 percent.

 

[Maxbialystock]

June 11th

starting Nunez over Holt was a terrible job my Rookie Manager Cora.

his hands are a bit tied with the Pedroia situation but there was ZERO reason to start nunez over holt last night.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Wonderful assertion about Cora's inability to manage to your satisfaction. Better still, you leave no margin of error on Nunez vs. Holt: Cora was completely, irretrievably wrong; and you're completely right.

 

And that, frankly, is just nuts because you massively overstate the importance of one player in a lineup. Not too long ago I pointed out that the Sox had gone 11-4 without Mookie in the lineup, and he is only having a career year with and OPS around 1.100. I like Holt this year--I haven't in the past--for the reasons most of us do. He's a versatile as ever, but this year has an astounding OPS that's over .800. Zowie. But he is still just one guy, and any reasonable observer would give Cora the benefit of any doubt we might have. As it turned out, the two guys who hurt us the most last night were JDM and Moreland who between them had 0 hits and 6 K's and left 8 guys on base.

 

Might I add the Cora's handling of his starter and of the bullpen was nothing more than masterful last night. He left Wright in as long as possible and then brought in the perfect guy to get him out of a jam. Of course, most of the credit goes to the pitchers--Wright, Kelly, Johnson, Hembree, and Kimbrel--but Cora always seemed to know just when to use someone and, in the case of Kimbrel, when to wait.

[Slasher9]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Wonderful assertion about Cora's inability to manage to your satisfaction. Better still, you leave no margin of error on Nunez vs. Holt: Cora was completely, irretrievably wrong; and you're completely right.

 

And that, frankly, is just nuts because you massively overstate the importance of one player in a lineup. Not too long ago I pointed out that the Sox had gone 11-4 without Mookie in the lineup, and he is only having a career year with and OPS around 1.100. I like Holt this year--I haven't in the past--for the reasons most of us do. He's a versatile as ever, but this year has an astounding OPS that's over .800. Zowie. But he is still just one guy, and any reasonable observer would give Cora the benefit of any doubt we might have. As it turned out, the two guys who hurt us the most last night were JDM and Moreland who between them had 0 hits and 6 K's and left 8 guys on base.

 

Might I add the Cora's handling of his starter and of the bullpen was nothing more than masterful last night. He left Wright in as long as possible and then brought in the perfect guy to get him out of a jam. Of course, most of the credit goes to the pitchers--Wright, Kelly, Johnson, Hembree, and Kimbrel--but Cora always seemed to know just when to use someone and, in the case of Kimbrel, when to wait.

 

i have zero issue with how he used the pen last night, so i'm not sure why bring that up? i had an issue with Cora starting nunez instead of Holt. also, my posts in this thread seldom (as in never) are about the final outcome of the game. so i dont care if the Red Sox won 25-2 last night or lost 1-0. also, all your points are about offense. there is more than 1 side to a baseball game. especially with a groundball knuckleball pitcher....

[Bellhorn04]

June 11th

starting Nunez over Holt was a terrible job my Rookie Manager Cora.

his hands are a bit tied with the Pedroia situation but there was ZERO reason to start nunez over holt last night.

 

This was brought up by a bunch of people on the game thread.

 

I don't have the answer for why Cora did this, but I am quite sure he had his reasons and it wasn't an oversight. I do wish the media would ask the manager this type of question though.

[moonslav59]

I'm not defending Cora's choice of Nunez over Holt, but here are a few reasons I can think of...

 

1) Holt's career splits are close to equal vs LHPs and RHPs, so choosing based on this might be misplaced. Holt has hit lefties better than righties over his career (.717 to .693). Nunez has hit RHPs better over his career .743 to ,688. That's a significant reverse split differential.

2) For the many that love to use the "what have you done for me lately" argument, Holt has actually hit lefties way better than righties, so far this season (1.084 v L/ .768 v R). Nunez has been way better vs RHPs this year (.710) than vs LHPs (.413).

3) Last 14 day OPS: Nunez .701 & Holt .603.

4) Neither are plus defenders.

 

Again, I'm not defending Cora, but I don't see this choice as being a no-brainer. Sometimes the lefty-righty split thing is not as clear as it looks. In this case, both players have career and seasonal reverse splits.

Edited June 12, 2018 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

I was also wondering if the original lineup last night had Holt starting in right, and Mookie was a gametime decision to play.

[Maxbialystock]

i have zero issue with how he used the pen last night, so i'm not sure why bring that up? i had an issue with Cora starting nunez instead of Holt. also, my posts in this thread seldom (as in never) are about the final outcome of the game. so i dont care if the Red Sox won 25-2 last night or lost 1-0. also, all your points are about offense. there is more than 1 side to a baseball game. especially with a groundball knuckleball pitcher....

 

Actually, my quarrel is with the phrase, "terrible job by rookie manager Cora." That's strong stuff and invites disagreement. To me you can't say that and then say how he managed everything else is irrelevant.

 

I agree Holt is a better fielding 2B than Nunez because it's obvious and sometimes infuriating. But, unlike you, I look at everything Cora does as a manager and grant him any lineup he wants.

 

At one point, for example, the Sox were 11-4 without Mookie--a small sample, but suggestive that Cora might know what he is doing. Ditto the rest days which I've never seen before, at least this early in a season.

 

And let's not forget that way back in March plenty of us would have been happy to dump Holt, but Cora kept him and used him. My goodness, he even uses Swihart who has yet to show he has any value other than as a backup backup catcher and very occasional RF/DH. The problem, I gather, is that DD can't send Swihart to Pawtucket. So not using Holt at 2b last night was not an oversight but a deliberate choice and one I respect despite my dislike of Nunez whom I liked a lot last year.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm not defending Cora's choice of Nunez over Holt, but here are a few reasons I can think of...

 

1) Holt's career splits are close to equal vs LHPs and RHPs, so choosing based on this might be misplaced. Holt has hit lefties better than righties over his career (.717 to .693). Nunez has hit RHPs better over his career .743 to ,688. That's a significant reverse split differential.

2) For the many that love to use the "what have you done for me lately" argument, Holt has actually hit lefties way better than righties, so far this season (1.084 v L/ .768 v R). Nunez has been way better vs RHPs this year (.710) than vs LHPs (.413).

3) Last 14 day OPS: Nunez .701 & Holt .603.

4) Neither are plus defenders.

 

Again, I'm not defending Cora, but I don't see this choice as being a no-brainer. Sometimes the lefty-righty split thing is not as clear as it looks. In this case, both players have career and seasonal reverse splits.

 

See, that's the problem with you. I'm serious. You're always doing your homework.