The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[S5Dewey]

Honestly though, what does it matter if the story we're getting is the truth or not. Personally I couldn't care less. And as time goes on I don't think anyone else will either.

 

I know.. and I agree, but that seems to be becoming "the new normal" in this country now. Business and government leaders tell lies on a wholesale basis and the people don't care. I feel like I know why it happened and I know why DD said what he did. I just hope DD and Alex talked about what the story was going to be before DD threw Alex under the bus.

[Bellhorn04]

I know.. and I agree, but that seems to be becoming "the new normal" in this country now. Business and government leaders tell lies on a wholesale basis and the people don't care. I feel like I know why it happened and I know why DD said what he did. I just hope DD and Alex talked about what the story was going to be before DD threw Alex under the bus.

 

I think that for business and governments, liberal doses of lying have always been the normal. Maybe we're just more enlightened about that fact now.

[notin]

Do you really find DD girly?

 

I don't doubt at all that DD wanted Hanley's vesting option gone.

 

I suspect there was a LOT of discussion before this season about exactly how they were going to handle this, including what they were going to say if they DFA'd Hanley.

 

I suspect this story was partially to allay concerns about the Players Union objecting.

 

And it's pretty clearly 100% BS that the option had nothing to do with the decision.

 

But I really don't expect to get the actual truth from management a lot of the time. Because they have to play the PR game, it's part of the deal.

 

That's been my position since the shocking revealation...

[moonslav59]

I know.. and I agree, but that seems to be becoming "the new normal" in this country now. Business and government leaders tell lies on a wholesale basis and the people don't care. I feel like I know why it happened and I know why DD said what he did. I just hope DD and Alex talked about what the story was going to be before DD threw Alex under the bus.

 

I'm wondering if Cora agreed to the actual statement DD made, or if DD ad libbed a little.

 

Usually, a GM protects the manager and takes the heat on himself. Throwing a manager under the bus in the middle of a pennant race is not usually a good idea. I'm sure many players liked HRam and felt bad about what happened to him. I'm not sure if there is any anymosity felt towards Cora, now.

 

I undrstand that the way DD worded his statement, it maximized the "baseball decision" part that would strengthen their case, assuming there might be one, in any grievance filed against the team by HRam. DD being able to say my manager asked me to DFA HRam helps the team's case.

 

I'm just glad we're out of the vesting option and this ugly chapter or Pablo & HRam in Sox uniforms is over. We'll still be paying for it for a while, as Pablo's contract still has another year to go after this, but the final end is in sight.

 

[Jack Flap]

I guess I didn't take as dark a view of Dombrowski's comments as some did. No, I'm sure the idea didn't come 100% from Cora, but it does make me feel a lot better about the whole thing if he was on board with it, and I see no reason for both of them to completely lie about that part.

 

The bit about it having nothing to do with the option is obviously laughable, but I just took it as the GM equivalent of a pitcher having to insist the fastball that conveniently happened to find an opposing batter's ribs "just got away from him." There's no way he could get up there and give HanRam and his agent any additional fodder for a grievance by making it about the vesting option.

[Spudboy]

Per notin, no he didn't.

 

According to Dombrowski, Cora went from batting Hanley third in the order (and occasionally second in the order,) to wanting him off the team? No dropping in the batting order? No benching more often? Nope - #3 hitter out to out the door.

 

That's a pretty drastic change.

 

Hanley was DFA's because his overall contract has been a failure and one hot month didn't change that. And because his option needed to be avoided. I get why DD can't admit the latter part, but the story he's telling makes Cora look like an absolute idiot. "Cut my number three hitter!!". I don't think it was necessarily even the wrong move, but I don't buy the story from Dombrowski.

 

Nor should you.

[Spudboy]

Honestly though, what does it matter if the story we're getting is the truth or not. Personally I couldn't care less. And as time goes on I don't think anyone else will either.

 

Well this is true. I feel the same as you.

[Bellhorn04]

If we lived in a world where people like Dombrowski were totally comfortable being 100% honest, he could have started his remarks about Hanley something like this:

 

'First of all, let me remind everyone who doesn't know already, that it was Ben Cherington's bonehead idea to not only give Hanley 88 million but to put in this ridiculous vesting option, and it was that idiotic move that had a lot to do with me sitting here instead of him...'

[Spudboy]

lol

[Bellhorn04]

And why didn't some Sox press guy badger DD about it like Tommy Cruise in A Few Good Men?

 

'You ordered the DFA, didn't you???!!!'

 

Finally DD blowing up:

 

'You're goddam right I did!!!'

[cp176]

This is another non-story for me. I'm with Bellhorn on this one. I could not care any less about whose idea it might have been to jettison Ramirez. But what the hell I have never been particularly enamored with him. No hit = No Hanley. I believe what I have been led to believe and it works for me. I suppose for those who do not like Dombrowski and want to believe that he is not being truthful, it gives them something to criticize him for. I think that the good news is that he doesn't care what any of us think. Doesn't affect what he wants to do which is win. For those who have commented about the public being deceived today with resect to the news, I wish that we saw and heard a lot less of it than we do. It's this information age I guess and we aren't going backward.

[Spudboy]

This is another non-story for me. I'm with Bellhorn on this one. I could not care any less about whose idea it might have been to jettison Ramirez. But what the hell I have never been particularly enamored with him. No hit = No Hanley. I believe what I have been led to believe and it works for me. I suppose for those who do not like Dombrowski and want to believe that he is not being truthful, it gives them something to criticize him for. I think that the good news is that he doesn't care what any of us think. Doesn't affect what he wants to do which is win. For those who have commented about the public being deceived today with resect to the news, I wish that we saw and heard a lot less of it than we do. It's this information age I guess and we aren't going backward.

 

I understand how you feel. None of it is of any consequence, most likely.

 

I am not criticizing the Sox or DD for the way this was handled.

 

But that does not whitewash the obvious lie he told when asked about money being a part of the decision.

 

It's just curious and awkward that he said what he said. He looked stupid.

 

And it was embarrassing for all concerned.

[devildavid]

I think that for business and governments, liberal doses of lying have always been the normal. Maybe we're just more enlightened about that fact now.

 

You've got that right. I lived through the Gulf of Tonkin incident and Watergate. And wasn't New Coke a topic of discussion here at one time?

[devildavid]

Well, if Cora did do that, then I have to question his managerial acumen. Why was he batting the player he determined to be expendable in the 2 and 3 spot in the order?

 

The only way this makes sense is if DD really worked with whateve Alex said.

 

DD: Stop playing Hanley so much. He's slumping now and going to get real expensive. Play him less.

Alex: He's had a few bad games in a row, but he's been a big part of the team and I'm not so sure he'd be the same as a part time player.

DD:Not sure he'd be the same as a part time player? (Light bulb over his head) So he won't pan out playing part time? That's exactly what I need. Thanks, Alex!!

 

This has to do with the difference between short term and long term decisions. Cora played the cards in his hand the best he could until he could discard and get a new card.

[Natick to NC]

This has to do with the difference between short term and long term decisions. Cora played the cards in his hand the best he could until he could discard and get a new card.

 

....this makes entirely to much since....lets rehash and drool about idiocincrocy of every single thing we can pull out Daves ass on this ??? Shall we ...FFS get on the real problem .....Catcher !!!!!

[moonslav59]

Give it a break, or you'll be taking home the 2018 Broken Record Award.

 

moonslav59 was the early leader for his repeated posts on the insanity of signing Moreland, so in a way, I'm cheering for you to take me off the hook.

 

[Kimmi]

Do you really find DD girly?

 

I don't doubt at all that DD wanted Hanley's vesting option gone.

 

I suspect there was a LOT of discussion before this season about exactly how they were going to handle this, including what they were going to say if they DFA'd Hanley.

 

I suspect this story was partially to allay concerns about the Players Union objecting.

 

And it's pretty clearly 100% BS that the option had nothing to do with the decision.

 

But I really don't expect to get the actual truth from management a lot of the time. Because they have to play the PR game, it's part of the deal.

 

I understand the PR game and the whole CYA thing.

 

I don't understand the need for the implication that Hanley would become a problem if his at bats were limited. Why the need to paint Hanley in a bad light? Now maybe he would have become difficult to manage, but maybe he wouldn't have. There is no indication that Hanley has been any kind of a problem since he returned to Boston. Either way, Cora should have just said that he didn't think he would be able to find the playing time for Hanley, and stopped right there.

[cp176]

I understand how you feel. None of it is of any consequence, most likely.

 

I am not criticizing the Sox or DD for the way this was handled.

 

But that does not whitewash the obvious lie he told when asked about money being a part of the decision.

 

It's just curious and awkward that he said what he said. He looked stupid.

 

And it was embarrassing for all concerned.

 

I'm just one of those dopes who doesn't really want to know everything about everything which is what happens these days. Many people think that our massive access to information where everybody gets to express an opinion about anything even if it does not involve them at all in anyway is a good thing and will lead to better times. The "news" and reporting the news in general has become nothing more than an extended arm of the entertainment industry.

For the record, if you and I were in a room and having a debate, I might disagree with you over some things and we would have fun discussing those things. I bet that we both have about the same amounts of spirit when it comes to the things that really matter. I will never disagree with any point that you make on this forum board even if I do not agree with what you say or think. I wish that we lived a little closer together - I bet that we could solve a lot of the problems the world faces today. lol

[cp176]

I understand the PR game and the whole CYA thing.

 

I don't understand the need for the implication that Hanley would become a problem if his at bats were limited. Why the need to paint Hanley in a bad light? Now maybe he would have become difficult to manage, but maybe he wouldn't have. There is no indication that Hanley has been any kind of a problem since he returned to Boston. Either way, Cora should have just said that he didn't think he would be able to find the playing time for Hanley, and stopped right there.

 

I agree - but I also would say that personally I would be ok without press conferences in general to explain these types of things to me.

[illinoisredsox]

Give it a break, or you'll be taking home the 2018 Broken Record Award.

 

moonslav59 was the early leader for his repeated posts on the insanity of signing Moreland, so in a way, I'm cheering for you to take me off the hook.

 

 

Oh I think Natick has that one wrapped up. You would post about Moreland a couple times a day, and that pace has slowed to glacial speed. Natick babbles about the catchers 2-3 times every page.

[Spudboy]

I agree - but I also would say that personally I would be ok without press conferences in general to explain these types of things to me.

 

I agree. It was just a roster move. No need to make a big production out of it. Issue a press release and get back to work.

[Slasher9]

I understand the PR game and the whole CYA thing.

 

I don't understand the need for the implication that Hanley would become a problem if his at bats were limited. Why the need to paint Hanley in a bad light? Now maybe he would have become difficult to manage, but maybe he wouldn't have. There is no indication that Hanley has been any kind of a problem since he returned to Boston. Either way, Cora should have just said that he didn't think he would be able to find the playing time for Hanley, and stopped right there.

 

YES. Thank you

[Maxbialystock]

I agree with Kimmi on almost everything, but not on the idea that somehow Hanley has been treated badly. Granted, a regular who is DFA's ain't looking all that good, but guess what? He's getting paid $22M this year regardless of what he does or where he goes.

 

He's gone because the Sox are winning--best record in MLB--in a season when the FO feels strongly they must win. That's why Cora replaced Farrell. That's why JD was brought in. That's why Hanley is gone--because he's a liability on the field with Moreland playing as well as he is.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree with Kimmi on almost everything, but not on the idea that somehow Hanley has been treated badly. Granted, a regular who is DFA's ain't looking all that good, but guess what? He's getting paid $22M this year regardless of what he does or where he goes.

 

He's gone because the Sox are winning--best record in MLB--in a season when the FO feels strongly they must win. That's why Cora replaced Farrell. That's why JD was brought in. That's why Hanley is gone--because he's a liability on the field with Moreland playing as well as he is.

 

But if it wasn't for the vesting option they probably would have hung onto him a while longer. The vesting option ends up hurting Hanley too. It's a lose-lose.

[moonslav59]

The only bad thing the HRam release created was a thinning of our1b depth chart.

 

Moreland playing FT looks great now, but he could be playing way over his head. He's currently at .833 vs LHPs but has struggled against them pretty much his whole career.

.682 vs LHPs in 2017

.684 vs LHPs career

We have Holt and Swihart as bench help, but Sam Travis is doing porrly in AAA.

 

With Pedey back, but not yet at FT, Nunez will be available to play more often and at more positions. To me, his availability in the OF allows JD to DH just about FT (OF in NL parks).

 

 

[Natick to NC]

Oh I think Natick has that one wrapped up. You would post about Moreland a couple times a day, and that pace has slowed to glacial speed. Natick babbles about the catchers 2-3 times every page.

 

Babbles ? .....babbles ? What are you doing talking about me for ? Please take me out of your conversations.Babbles ....Wow .

[moonslav59]

"Babbles" was being kind.

[Natick to NC]

"Babbles" was being kind.

 

Moon ...you have a problem with me say it .Other than that keep me out of your mouth please .No one cares about the catching situation like I do ...I caught abit and see some things that trouble me ...I have for a couple years ..It's not just the bat it's how both men call games ....it's akin to paint by numbers in my opinion .Moon your opinion is your own ...have it .Dont try and tell me mine means nothing .I find you to be as annoying as I am to you .Truth.

[Slasher9]

Moon ...you have a problem with me say it .Other than that keep me out of your mouth please .No one cares about the catching situation like I do ...I caught abit and see some things that trouble me ...I have for a couple years ..It's not just the bat it's how both men call games ....it's akin to paint by numbers in my opinion .Moon your opinion is your own ...have it .Dont try and tell me mine means nothing .I find you to be as annoying as I am to you .Truth.

 

How do you reconcile Leon’s catcher ERA?

[moonslav59]

How do you reconcile Leon’s catcher ERA?

 

He sees the bench calling the pitches, so that must mean sandy is a dufus and brings nothing to the defensive side of the equation.

 

Like pitch calling is the only factor on defense for a catcher.