The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[a700hitter]

Had Kelly had puked again yesterday, we'd see some calling for Cora's head.

I don't think so. Cora had a spent bullpen. He had to let kelly get back on the horse. He got the first 2 guys out. There was no reason to take him out. He was throwing strikes yesterday-- something he didn't do on Opening Day.

[moonslav59]

I don't think so. Cora had a spent bullpen. He had to let kelly get back on the horse. He got the first 2 guys out. There was no reason to take him out. He was throwing strikes yesterday-- something he didn't do on Opening Day.

 

1) He could have used someone else to start the inning. (I wouldn't have.)

2) He could have used Kimbrel game 1, 2 and 4 or 1, 3 and 4, instead of 2 & 3.

 

Again, I have no issues with how Cora handled game 1 or 4 (or 2 & 3).

[moonslav59]

Why didn't he pitch Kimbrel 3 days in a row!?!?!?!??

 

In hindsight, maybe 1, 2 and 4 or 1, 3 & 4 might have left us 4-0.

 

(We might have lost game 2 or 3 had we not used CK then.)

[Maxbialystock]

Reading this thread reminds of the good old days when Terry Francona--let alone John Farrell--was personally responsible for every single loss. The players, not the manager, won those two WS. Ditto the one in 2013.

 

Based on the available evidence--just 4 games--I think Cora has done a pretty good job. Here's what I've seen--

 

1. 3-1 record, a game up on the Yankees.

2. Great rotation--I think 2 runs in 4 starts and 24 innings.

3. Rotten hitting, except Bogaerts.

4. Scary bullpen. Even Kimbrel had 2 guys on in one of his saves. Kelly and Smith, two seasoned professionals with good stuff, gave up 6 runs in the 8th inning for the 1 loss. Kelly came back and got a save, but one which depended way too much on Denard swinging at a pitch in the dirt which should have been ball four to load the bases in a 1 run game. Walden went 1.1 innings giving up 1 hit and 3 line drives, all of which were caught--scary.

5. So-so baserunning--Holt trying to score and out by at least five steps with the bases loaded (if he holds at 3b), 1 out, and Martinez coming to bat, Bogie doubled off first on a liner to the outfield, Betts picked off, Betts also CS, etc.

6. So-so fielding. The one really good play I remember was Betts chasing down a double to keep the runner on first from scoring the tying run yesterday. The infield has limited range. Vazquez doesn't like blocking pitches in the dirt. However, 0 errors in 4 games, which should count for something.

[a700hitter]

1) He could have used someone else to start the inning. (I wouldn't have.)

2) He could have used Kimbrel game 1, 2 and 4 or 1, 3 and 4, instead of 2 & 3.

 

Again, I have no issues with how Cora handled game 1 or 4 (or 2 & 3).

I think that he needs to react a little quicker when a guy is imploding on the mound. Some days a guy just doesn't have it. The manager gets paid to judge that.

[moonslav59]

I think that he needs to react a little quicker when a guy is imploding on the mound. Some days a guy just doesn't have it. The manager gets paid to judge that.

 

Very true, but sometimes a manager is praised for sticking with a pitcher through a tough inning who then "settles down" and pitches well afterwards.

 

Kimbrel had not pitched much at the end of ST'ing. I trust Cora's judgement not to make him go more than an inning.

 

If I'm going to question anything, I'd ask why not leave Barnes in for 2 innings.

[a700hitter]

Very true, but sometimes a manager is praised for sticking with a pitcher through a tough inning who then "settles down" and pitches well afterwards.

 

Kimbrel had not pitched much at the end of ST'ing. I trust Cora's judgement not to make him go more than an inning.

 

If I'm going to question anything, I'd ask why not leave Barnes in for 2 innings.

I am not a fan of the 1 inning per pitcher from the 6th or 7th inning onward. If someone is pitching well and throwing strikes, I see no reason to take him out after 3 outs and go to another guy who may be having an off day. That approach seems to be a search for failure.

[moonslav59]

I am not a fan of the 1 inning per pitcher from the 6th or 7th inning onward. If someone is pitching well and throwing strikes, I see no reason to take him out after 3 outs and go to another guy who may be having an off day. That approach seems to be a search for failure.

 

Barnes pitched over 1 inning many times last year. I'd like to see him do that more often, even if it might mean less appearances.

[Emp9]

I would’ve pulled Kelly last night after he got the two outs with the first sign of trouble. I felt greatful for the 2 outs. Kelly redeemed himself in a way & I was happy for him. Then the Mallex Smith single. Right then I’d have taken Kelly out. Then he gives up another single to Hachavaria. Smith advanced to 3B. I Would’ve taken him out before that. Kelly got the job done in the end and we hung on, but I hope we try to have an additional RP warmed and ready for when Kimbrel can’t pitch in a Save situation. Ideally, I’d like to use Kelly in the 6th or 7th. I realize maybe someday a healthy, effective Thornburg could help our BP out tremendously, but that’s a ways off and might not ever happen either.

[moonslav59]

I would’ve pulled Kelly last night after he got the two outs with the first sign of trouble. I felt greatful for the 2 outs. Kelly redeemed himself in a way & I was happy for him. Then the Mallex Smith single. Right then I’d have taken Kelly out. Then he gives up another single to Hachavaria. Smith advanced to 3B. I Would’ve taken him out before that. Kelly got the job done in the end and we hung on, but I hope we try to have an additional RP warmed and ready for when Kimbrel can’t pitch in a Save situation. Ideally, I’d like to use Kelly in the 6th or 7th. I realize maybe someday a healthy, effective Thornburg could help our BP out tremendously, but that’s a ways off and might not ever happen either.

 

Had we pulled Kelly, and the next guy blew the game, we'd have never known leaving him in was the right choice.

 

Second guessing seems easy at times, and for some. I do it myself pretty often, but one never really knows.

[Emp9]

Had we pulled Kelly, and the next guy blew the game, we'd have never known leaving him in was the right choice.

 

Second guessing seems easy at times, and for some. I do it myself pretty often, but one never really knows.

 

That’s true. Not saying I’m right. But if I were manager, I’d have to invoke a “ first sign of trouble rule” in such a close game on principle, and apply it whenever possible. He got two very meaningful outs. That ain’t nothing. Thank you very much and I’ll see you on the bus.

[mvp 78]

I couldn't even watch. I followed it on the game thread here.

 

That sounds like torture.

[cp176]

I am not a fan of the 1 inning per pitcher from the 6th or 7th inning onward. If someone is pitching well and throwing strikes, I see no reason to take him out after 3 outs and go to another guy who may be having an off day. That approach seems to be a search for failure.

 

I'm with you on this one. Too much specialization for me. Might even be called a waste of resources at times.

[cp176]

That’s true. Not saying I’m right. But if I were manager, I’d have to invoke a “ first sign of trouble rule” in such a close game on principle, and apply it whenever possible. He got two very meaningful outs. That ain’t nothing. Thank you very much and I’ll see you on the bus.

 

I would have yanked him as well. I understand what Moon is saying and agree with him also.l. My personality would have had me getting the ball from him with 2 outs and runners on 1st and 3rd. As it is, I still think that it is kind of tough to praise him too much yesterday. That strikeout pitch he threw to end the game certain should not have been swung at. Oh well - I'm just happy that we won the game. Kelly just kind of is what he is and we need him. He can be just a little frustrating though.

[cp176]

Reading this thread reminds of the good old days when Terry Francona--let alone John Farrell--was personally responsible for every single loss. The players, not the manager, won those two WS. Ditto the one in 2013.

 

Based on the available evidence--just 4 games--I think Cora has done a pretty good job. Here's what I've seen--

 

1. 3-1 record, a game up on the Yankees.

2. Great rotation--I think 2 runs in 4 starts and 24 innings.

3. Rotten hitting, except Bogaerts.

4. Scary bullpen. Even Kimbrel had 2 guys on in one of his saves. Kelly and Smith, two seasoned professionals with good stuff, gave up 6 runs in the 8th inning for the 1 loss. Kelly came back and got a save, but one which depended way too much on Denard swinging at a pitch in the dirt which should have been ball four to load the bases in a 1 run game. Walden went 1.1 innings giving up 1 hit and 3 line drives, all of which were caught--scary.

5. So-so baserunning--Holt trying to score and out by at least five steps with the bases loaded (if he holds at 3b), 1 out, and Martinez coming to bat, Bogie doubled off first on a liner to the outfield, Betts picked off, Betts also CS, etc.

6. So-so fielding. The one really good play I remember was Betts chasing down a double to keep the runner on first from scoring the tying run yesterday. The infield has limited range. Vazquez doesn't like blocking pitches in the dirt. However, 0 errors in 4 games, which should count for something.

 

I'm pretty sure that I agree with all 6 of your observations. It is very early in the season for sure but I'm taking what you have written to simply be observations made after seeing them play just 4 games. Nothing wrong with that. I don't see it as a seasonal rank card just yet. Our infielders did make plays but I agree that their range as a group looks a little limited. I still think that there is great value in having guys that can make the routine plays consistently. Great range or not, you still need to make plays.

Cora is going to be fine. Right now I'm sure they are going through a learning process - both players and coaches. Could be a very very good team.

[Bellhorn04]

That sounds like torture.

 

Yes, but it's a different kind of torture. I had no idea Kelly put two guys on base. Plus I seem to have good luck when I do it.

[moonslav59]

That’s true. Not saying I’m right. But if I were manager, I’d have to invoke a “ first sign of trouble rule” in such a close game on principle, and apply it whenever possible. He got two very meaningful outs. That ain’t nothing. Thank you very much and I’ll see you on the bus.

 

I don't disagree. Especially after Kelly's game one meltdown: I'm thinking yank'em at the first sign of trouble.

 

I'm just not one to blame a manager too quickly, even if I disagree with a decision or two. Plus, we don't have all the information he had/has.

[cp176]

Yes, but it's a different kind of torture. I had no idea Kelly put two guys on base. Plus I seem to have good luck when I do it.

 

Gameday - think it is the way I'll be watching (sort of) the games when we go back to Florida. Don't enjoy it much but it is better than nothing plus it is still too cold for me up here. (ageing ....)

[Spudboy]

Gameday - think it is the way I'll be watching (sort of) the games when we go back to Florida. Don't enjoy it much but it is better than nothing plus it is still too cold for me up here. (ageing ....)

 

You can watch the games on-line for free when you get there.

[cp176]

You can watch the games on-line for free when you get there.

 

I was hoping someone would help me out when I posted that. Thanks Spud - I was kind of thinking of you when I said that. I like free, I guess I have just not figured out how to do it.

[Spudboy]

I was hoping someone would help me out when I posted that. Thanks Spud - I was kind of thinking of you when I said that. I like free, I guess I have just not figured out how to do it.

 

Just contact me with a pm when the time comes.

 

I will provide you with links.

[cp176]

Just contact me with a pm when the time comes.

 

I will provide you with links.

 

thank you - will do.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm pretty sure that I agree with all 6 of your observations. It is very early in the season for sure but I'm taking what you have written to simply be observations made after seeing them play just 4 games. Nothing wrong with that. I don't see it as a seasonal rank card just yet. Our infielders did make plays but I agree that their range as a group looks a little limited. I still think that there is great value in having guys that can make the routine plays consistently. Great range or not, you still need to make plays.

Cora is going to be fine. Right now I'm sure they are going through a learning process - both players and coaches. Could be a very very good team.

 

Dead right. My six points apply only to the first 4 games. Hitting, baserunning, and especially the bullpen should straighten out. Rotation probably won't maintain their incredible performance so far. I think we all have doubts about our infield, but I hope it can be average in the field. Plus I already like 0 errors to date.

 

The point was/is, Cora has done well to have us at 3-1.

[Maxbialystock]

I am not a fan of the 1 inning per pitcher from the 6th or 7th inning onward. If someone is pitching well and throwing strikes, I see no reason to take him out after 3 outs and go to another guy who may be having an off day. That approach seems to be a search for failure.

 

I have said the same thing in the past. Why look for trouble when the one inning guy should be good for another?

[Maxbialystock]

I don't disagree. Especially after Kelly's game one meltdown: I'm thinking yank'em at the first sign of trouble.

 

I'm just not one to blame a manager too quickly, even if I disagree with a decision or two. Plus, we don't have all the information he had/has.

 

Then you must have loved Girardi, who absolutely pulled relievers at the first sign of trouble.

[Kimmi]

Lineups don't matter either, so why bother wasting money on a manager.

 

Somebody has to make the decisions.

 

More to your point though, managers have a greater impact on the team with their off the field stuff.

[Kimmi]

Aaron Boone is getting slagged again for today's loss. Looking like a doofus.

 

As I said before, I don't think there is anyway that he could not be a doofus.

[Kimmi]

How about the "cajones grandes" that Cora showed today by bringing in Exxon spokesperson Joe Kelly to close. I guess he thought the unleaded that Kelly was throwing would be a little less incendiary than bringing in Smith and his JP4. Three one run games in a row, I am all out of fingernails.

 

If Kelly had blown that game, Cora would have been crucified.

 

Personally, I liked the decision. (I fully admit that I would not have liked it as much if it had failed. I also fully admit that I was not extremely confident entering that 1/2 inning. LOL) Cora gave Kelly a huge vote of confidence in trusting him with that save situation. He got the sour taste out of Kelly's mouth. Whether that pays any long term dividends remains to be seen, but I like it.

[Kimmi]

Say what you want about Traditional Lineup construction, but at least it has Test phase.

 

A traditional line up works, but how does anyone know that it's the best way to set a line up? How do you know another line up won't work better? Are we just going to accept that a traditional line up is the best line up because that's the way it's always been done?

[Kimmi]

I know this isn't going to go over well, but truth be told, the outcomes of all of our games so far is largely random. We could just as easily be 0-4, 1-3, 2-2, or 4-0.

 

In close games, randomness is king.