A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[S5Dewey]

if they can use Statcast to judge spin rate / exit velo / distance ball travels / launch angle / distance defender travels / speed defender travels surely SURELY they can work the math to figure out the exact location that glove touches fan. there should be zero doubt whether Mookie was over the wall / above the wall / or in the field of play.

Joe West made the call he had to make. it was up to NY to prove otherwise. and they either wouldn't, couldn't, or didn't want to.......

 

Do you actually believe all those number they throw up there? IMHO they're all calculated approximations with a margin of error. They're close, very close, and they make good fodder for the announcers and fans but they're not as precise as they'd like you to believe they are.

 

But I'm a cynic anyway.

[greenwell]

You can assume depth by using the following evidence:

 

1) The fans were standing against the fence.

2) The fans were leaning slightly forward.

3) The fans arms were out stretched to some extent.

 

From this, you can determine with pretty close to 100% accuracy, that their hands were over the plane when they touched Mookie's glove.

 

The secondary evidence shows that Mookie jumped and landed in front of the wall and barely scraped it on the way down.

 

Exactly. Looking at the ball it's hard to tell over the wall or not, but looking at the fan it's clear his arm is over the wall.

Did anyone happen to notice the ball Vasquez hit near the right field wall? The fans are clearly leaning away from the wall to avoid interfering with the outfielder. This shows why that call had to be made in my mind. There was no attempt to stay off the field by the fans when it's a sox fielder.

[greenwell]

if they can use Statcast to judge spin rate / exit velo / distance ball travels / launch angle / distance defender travels / speed defender travels surely SURELY they can work the math to figure out the exact location that glove touches fan. there should be zero doubt whether Mookie was over the wall / above the wall / or in the field of play.

Joe West made the call he had to make. it was up to NY to prove otherwise. and they either wouldn't, couldn't, or didn't want to.......

 

If I'm not mistaken the replay people in NY are not told what the call on the field was. IMO they assumed the call was HR and wanted that call to stand, but couldn't justify calling it a home run from the replay. MLB does not want another Bartman.

[greenwell]

There are a lot of assumptions in your post and assumptions are what replays are supposed to remove.

 

Remember, we're talking about inches here - whether or not Mookie's glove or the fan's hand broke the imaginary plane extending upward from the field-side of the wall. Your biggest assumption is that the fans were as close to the wall as they could get. In any park I've been in there's maybe 6" between where my feet are and the wall.

The fan is standing so when he stood up did he have his toes against the wall or are they a distance back from the wall? Are his knees touching the wall? We don't know and I'd bet the fan doesn't either. I know that sounds picky but that may be the difference between whether the fan was able to reach onto the field or not. From the best angle I've seen Mookie's glove was over the line but that angle is maybe 45 degrees so it will distort the view. So I can't say that I KNOW.

 

This whole thing reminds me of the bang-bang plays at 1B where even the video can't completely determine safe or out and there's no provision in the rules for a tie. Maybe Mookie was over the imaginary line. Maybe the fan was. We don't know so we defer to West's original call. Like I said, I wouldn't argue it either way.

 

I agree that you can't tell depth from the replay, but you can see that the fan in white on the right has one hand on the wall and is clearly leaning over. He wasn't the one interfering, but he was right there.

[SoxnCycles]

The only definitive camera angle was blocked by a dopey security employee leaning over, in front of the camera, to see the play.

Good move.

Taze him until he tells what he saw.

[BillyWilliams]

if they can use Statcast to judge spin rate / exit velo / distance ball travels / launch angle / distance defender travels / speed defender travels surely SURELY they can work the math to figure out the exact location that glove touches fan. there should be zero doubt whether Mookie was over the wall / above the wall / or in the field of play.

Joe West made the call he had to make. it was up to NY to prove otherwise. and they either wouldn't, couldn't, or didn't want to.......

 

joe west is a fat turd that has no business being an outfield ump, he was at least 100 feet away and really in no position to make the call. But since he did the replay guys can't overturn the original call without 100% confidence. Had west correctly called it the other way it would have stood as a home run.

[mvp 78]

joe west is a fat turd that has no business being an outfield ump, he was at least 100 feet away and really in no position to make the call. But since he did the replay guys can't overturn the original call without 100% confidence. Had west correctly called it the other way it would have stood as a home run.

 

Typically fat turds are reserved for the NYPD.

 

How's that offseason golf game going?

[notin]

Do you actually believe all those number they throw up there? IMHO they're all calculated approximations with a margin of error. They're close, very close, and they make good fodder for the announcers and fans but they're not as precise as they'd like you to believe they are.

 

But I'm a cynic anyway.

 

I think you'd be surprised at how accurate a lot of that stuff is.

 

We put a man on the moon almost a half a century ago. Yet you struggle to believe we can measure the rate of spin on a curveball in 2018l?

[mvp 78]

I think you'd be surprised at how accurate a lot of that stuff is.

 

We put a man on the moon almost a half a century ago. Yet you struggle to believe we can measure the rate of spin on a curveball in 2018l?

 

Perfect.

[BillyWilliams]

If you look back in my posts I've been consistently saying that I DON'T WANT MANNY MACHADO ON THIS TEAM NO MATTER HOW CHEAPLY DD COULD GET HIM FOR!

 

The reason for that is quite simple. I'm a Red Sox fan and I don't want to be put in the position of trashing 'one of my own' if he continued to be a thug - and there's no evidence that he wouldn't do that.

 

But I'd do it.. in a heartbeat.

 

Do you think you can comprehend that, troll?

 

This is cute.

 

dewdrop has me on ignore, rants about my posts and asks me a question that I can't respond to because he has me on ignore.

 

I never understood how someone can be so thin skinned.

 

I picture him running to mommy "Mommy, someone I don't know said things I don't agree with on the internet!! Can you make the bad man go away??!!"

 

I mean, really, grow a sack.

[notin]

joe west is a fat turd that has no business being an outfield ump, he was at least 100 feet away and really in no position to make the call. But since he did the replay guys can't overturn the original call without 100% confidence. Had west correctly called it the other way it would have stood as a home run.

 

 

Maybe next time we can use Jeffrey Maier to make that call...

[mvp 78]

This is cute.

 

dewdrop has me on ignore, rants about my posts and asks me a question that I can't respond to because he has me on ignore.

 

I never understood how someone can be so thin skinned.

 

I picture him running to mommy "Mommy, someone I don't know said things I don't agree with on the internet!! Can you make the bad man go away??!!"

 

I mean, really, grow a sack.

 

Almost as thin skinned as someone whining on the internet that someone has them on ignore. Poor baby. You need your binky?

 

BUT THE PLAYERS ARE KNEELING WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Who's the real thin skinned baby? Look in the mirror dumb dumb.

[BillyWilliams]

Typically fat turds are reserved for the NYPD.

 

How's that offseason golf game going?

 

I guess you call him slim?

 

And I don't golf, I prefer fishing.

[BillyWilliams]

Almost as thin skinned as someone whining on the internet that someone has them on ignore. Poor baby. You need your binky?

 

BUT THE PLAYERS ARE KNEELING WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Who's the real thin skinned baby? Look in the mirror dumb dumb.

 

Not thin skinned at all, idiot.

 

It's about respect for what my family members do/have done for a living.

[BillyWilliams]

Maybe next time we can use Jeffrey Maier to make that call...

 

Agreed, that was a horrible call as well.

[mvp 78]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]681[/ATTACH]

 

I guess you call him slim?

 

And I don't golf, I prefer fishing.

 

Fine, all cops are fat and the majority of cops that die in a chase on foot are killed by heart attacks because they are so out of shape. Feel better now?

 

https://www.copsalive.com/heart-disease-and-the-law-enforcement-officer/

 

Heart attacks are always in the top two or three categories of police line of duty deaths. However, if extrapolated to a full 24-hour day, heart attack likely becomes the number one killer of men and women in uniform.

[mvp 78]

Agreed, that was a horrible call as well.

 

I just died.

[SoxnCycles]

I think you'd be surprised at how accurate a lot of that stuff is.

 

We put a man on the moon almost a half a century ago. Yet you struggle to believe we can measure the rate of spin on a curveball in 2018l?

 

Sez you!

[notin]

Not thin skinned at all, idiot.

 

It's about respect for what my family members do/have done for a living.

 

But the NFL isn't anti-law enforcement. Some of the African American players are just using their Constitutional right to peaceably assemble to protest some alleged wrongdoings by a certain small amount of law enforcement officers. I'm sure the members of your family who are involved in law enforcement don't support police brutality. Choosing to ignore them creates an image of support for the actions in question. Choosing to address their concerns is what resolves the issue.

 

Also this movement has spread into pretty much all sports, including baseball and hockey...

[notin]

Sez you!

 

LOL. Ummm.. yes. It would have been more difficult to fake it in 1969 than to actually put a man there and bring him back...

[sk7326]

joe west is a fat turd that has no business being an outfield ump, he was at least 100 feet away and really in no position to make the call. But since he did the replay guys can't overturn the original call without 100% confidence. Had west correctly called it the other way it would have stood as a home run.

 

West is all of those things. But the call was not wrong. As I said, the Sox were lucky to get the call ... usually the interference has to be more blatant.

[BillyWilliams]

But the NFL isn't anti-law enforcement. Some of the African American players are just using their Constitutional right to peaceably assemble to protest some alleged wrongdoings by a certain small amount of law enforcement officers. I'm sure the members of your family who are involved in law enforcement don't support police brutality. Choosing to ignore them creates an image of support for the actions in question. Choosing to address their concerns is what resolves the issue.

 

Also this movement has spread into pretty much all sports, including baseball and hockey...

 

I disagree but I'm not going to be dragged into a political discussion on here. Keep it to baseball.

[mvp 78]

But the NFL isn't anti-law enforcement. Some of the African American players are just using their Constitutional right to peaceably assemble to protest some alleged wrongdoings by a certain small amount of law enforcement officers. I'm sure the members of your family who are involved in law enforcement don't support police brutality. Choosing to ignore them creates an image of support for the actions in question. Choosing to address their concerns is what resolves the issue.

 

Also this movement has spread into pretty much all sports, including baseball and hockey...

 

He's not smart enough to understand this. Police officers are the biggest snowflakes in the country.

 

"Hrmm, we killed somebody? Not my fault! Blue Lives Matter! We're under attack from big donut!" That's all I'll say on it before YOTN deletes the post.

[mvp 78]

I disagree but I'm not going to be dragged into a political discussion on here. Keep it to baseball.

 

You were the one to bring up the NFL thing tho?

[notin]

You were the one to bring up the NFL thing tho?

 

And not for reasons related to football...

[BillyWilliams]

You were the one to bring up the NFL thing tho?

 

Incorrect, you brought it up on the previous page.

 

Short term memory failing you?

[Hitch]

The first 3 times I saw the replay, I thought it was a homer. It looked like Betts just closed his glove too early. I shoulda known he wouldn't do that on his own.

 

Then, I saw the fans had knock into his glove causing it to close. One angle shows it clearly. The other angle shows the fans hand was just barely over the imaginary line into the field of play.

 

Plus, watch how Betts jumps. He did not jump into the stands. When he came down, he didn't even hit the wall, except for just slightly near the bottom with his leg (maybe). His glove trajectory was not going into the stands.

 

The fans were right up next to the fence, and even though they had T-Rex arms, to some extent, they still went over the plane by a couple inches or so.

 

 

I think it's one of those things that can just come down to who your team is. It was't obvious that he jumped past the mark, but his arm was bent behind him and he was jumping backwards. I've changed my mind over and over on it.

 

That said, it doesn't matter. They had another 8 innings to score the runs needed and it wasn't that moments fault they kept shipping us runs. We won. We deserve it.

[notin]

I think it's one of those things that can just come down to who your team is. It was't obvious that he jumped past the mark, but his arm was bent behind him and he was jumping backwards. I've changed my mind over and over on it.

 

That said, it doesn't matter. They had another 8 innings to score the runs needed and it wasn't that moments fault they kept shipping us runs. We won. We deserve it.

 

And it all balances out. If the Kemp call was incorrect the other day, the Astros were due to be victimized by a close and understandable call....

[Hitch]

And it all balances out. If the Kemp call was incorrect the other day, the Astros were due to be victimized by a close and understandable call....

 

Exactly, these things are only really important talking points if they happen in the last inning or two where there's little time for the game to be altered.

[notin]

Exactly, these things are only really important talking points if they happen in the last inning or two where there's little time for the game to be altered.

 

So maybe the Houston papers won't write a story about the fan who interfered giving his name, home address and work address like the Chicago Sun Times did with Steve Barton?