A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[cp176]

I am surprised how bent of shape some posters are about opinions that differ from their own.

 

If I question an opinion I typically respond with statistics that readers can incorporate or ignore in forming their own opinions. More often than not, I offer no opinion, leaving that to the province of the reader.

 

My forum contributions are almost always limited to statistics because I watch so little MLB baseball (this old-timer prefers the radio). Statistics and observations should complement each other.

 

I think that it has to do much more with how an opinion is presented. No one repeat no one likes to feel as though they are experiencing any type of condescension. I don't think that you do this but it seems to happen everyday. If you feel it enough, then it really should come as no surprise that a reaction occurs.

[moonslav59]

I think that it has to do much more with how an opinion is presented. No one repeat no one likes to feel as though they are experiencing any type of condescension. I don't think that you do this but it seems to happen everyday. If you feel it enough, then it really should come as no surprise that a reaction occurs.

 

I'm open to suggestions on how to present my case in any way less threatening, combative or condescending than this...

 

Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post

 

He is clearly not a top SS defensively but he does make most of the plays and has improved since he came up.

 

If he hits .300 -.320 I couldn't care less about his perceived range deficiency.

 

[i responded]

 

I disagree. He got better a little bit, then he regressed over the lasr 2+ years.

 

2013-2015

 

+0.1 UZR/150 (thanks to 2015's +1.0)

- 8 DRS in 2293 innings

 

 

2016-2018

 

-2.3 UZR/150

-20 DRS in 2706 innings

 

I guess I could have said, "I think he's regressed," but really, how many times to posters have to say, "I think..." before giving their opinion? It's kinda understood, isn't it?

 

Then he goes on and accuses me of "seeking validation" and something about having a bigger penis.

 

It was a clear over-reaction to nothing sinister or combative in the least.

 

I've seen a lot of nasty stuff posted by other posters. I don't intend to come off as being superior, smarter or more knowledgable than anyone else here. I like to try to support my opinions and claims with evidence in a civil manner. That's what I was taught to do and what I taught my students to do for years.

 

So again, I'm open to suggestions.

[harmony]

I think that it has to do much more with how an opinion is presented. No one repeat no one likes to feel as though they are experiencing any type of condescension. I don't think that you do this but it seems to happen everyday. If you feel it enough, then it really should come as no surprise that a reaction occurs.

I agree that some responses are far too personal.

 

As a general rule I avoid writing the word "you" on this forum unless I use the word in a positive context. I'd like to think that I respond to ideas, not to people. Reminds me of the quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

 

I hope that's not condescending.

[cp176]

I'm open to suggestions on how to present my case in any way less threatening, combative or condescending than this...

 

Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post

 

He is clearly not a top SS defensively but he does make most of the plays and has improved since he came up.

 

If he hits .300 -.320 I couldn't care less about his perceived range deficiency.

 

[i responded]

 

I disagree. He got better a little bit, then he regressed over the lasr 2+ years.

 

2013-2015

 

+0.1 UZR/150 (thanks to 2015's +1.0)

- 8 DRS in 2293 innings

 

 

2016-2018

 

-2.3 UZR/150

-20 DRS in 2706 innings

 

I guess I could have said, "I think he's regressed," but really, how many times to posters have to say, "I think..." before giving their opinion? It's kinda understood, isn't it?

 

Then he goes on and accuses me of "seeking validation" and something about having a bigger penis.

 

It was a clear over-reaction to nothing sinister or combative in the least.

 

I've seen a lot of nasty stuff posted by other posters. I don't intend to come off as being superior, smarter or more knowledgable than anyone else here. I like to try to support my opinions and claims with evidence in a civil manner. That's what I was taught to do and what I taught my students to do for years.

 

So again, I'm open to suggestions.

 

Moon - please I was not talking about you. We've done this dance and I understand where you are coming from. I will just say that I have been posting here for a number of years and I really like Spud. He is unique for sure but he is a good one. The condescension factor goes a helluva lot deeper than anything that you might say. Half the time if I told you my exact feelings you would say the same thing about me. Spud surely doesn't need me to defend him. He tells it like he sees it and at times in amusing ways. He states his opinions succinctly and in very colorful ways often but I don't sense much of a mean bone in that body. Not my battle but I don't like seeing two good baseball people squaring off like this. You are both needed. If I was to tell you that after a lifetime of playing teaching and coaching that in all honesty I think that I know more about the game than anyone who has simply studied the game from an analytical point of view- of which I am personally sure of - would that sound condescending to you? My guess is that it probably would. Maybe I should say that but I certainly wouldn't mean it. wink wink

[cp176]

I agree that some responses are far too personal.

 

As a general rule I avoid writing the word "you" on this forum unless I use the word in a positive context. I'd like to think that I respond to ideas, not to people. Reminds me of the quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."

 

I hope that's not condescending.

 

 

I don't find that condescending at all. I don't find you condescending . I think that what you have said is good advice. Condescending is a tough assed word these days. I far prefer humble myself.

[cp176]

I don't find that condescending at all. I don't find you condescending . I think that what you have said is good advice. Condescending is a tough assed word these days. I far prefer humble myself.

 

 

Oh wait one more thing - You are just a proverbial pain in the ass. LOL

[harmony]

Oh wait one more thing - You are just a proverbial pain in the ass. LOL

Of course I am.

[moonslav59]

Moon - please I was not talking about you. We've done this dance and I understand where you are coming from. I will just say that I have been posting here for a number of years and I really like Spud. He is unique for sure but he is a good one. The condescension factor goes a helluva lot deeper than anything that you might say. Half the time if I told you my exact feelings you would say the same thing about me. Spud surely doesn't need me to defend him. He tells it like he sees it and at times in amusing ways. He states his opinions succinctly and in very colorful ways often but I don't sense much of a mean bone in that body. Not my battle but I don't like seeing two good baseball people squaring off like this. You are both needed. If I was to tell you that after a lifetime of playing teaching and coaching that in all honesty I think that I know more about the game than anyone who has simply studied the game from an analytical point of view- of which I am personally sure of - would that sound condescending to you? My guess is that it probably would. Maybe I should say that but I certainly wouldn't mean it. wink wink

 

I get your point, but I really don't think I am condescending. I do know I don't try to be.

 

BTW, I get criticized a lot for using numbers and data, like nobody who is into stats can possibly understand the human element or the nonquantifiable aspects of the game.

 

I played baseball for decades. I was never even a good hitter, so I worked at becoming the best fielder and runner I could be. (I also walked a lot.) Maybe that's why I have a bias towards defense.

 

I think everyone here knows it: i like to express my opinion. If a different poster brings up a similar point as another, I'll repeat my position- sometime too often for those who read every post. I can see how I can come across as annoying at times, but I really don't see anything in my response to Spud that seemed even a little bit out of line.

 

Then, instead of apologizing, like I have too many times to remember, he escalated it twice more.

 

I'm not doubting Spud's a good guy and knows his stuff, but it's hard to just let remarks like that just slide by. I was taught to defend yourself and others against baseless attacks and falsehoods.

 

I'm not seeking validation. I love a good debate or argument. I don't need or want others to all believe the same things as I do.

[a700hitter]

Of course I am.

That would go for more than just you. LOL!!

[moonslav59]

Back to baseball.

 

Nice to see some two out thunder. Guys scoring from 1B on hits inside the park.

 

If Vaz can keep hitting or even improve on 2017, we could really have a totally balanced line-up.

 

Maybe the BB and run by JBJ will get him into the swing of things.

 

I'm hoping Johnson can keep going and keep the pen fresh.

 

(Maybe this belongs on the game thread.)

[cp176]

That would go for more than just you. LOL!!

 

Ain't that the truth. You ain't just ashittin bisquits. I'm thinking that I might be pretty close to the top of the list. All in good fun.

[Nick]

Our 5 starters have pitched 30 innings and given up 3 runs. And that's with 2 regulars out. Off to good start.

[a700hitter]

Our 5 starters have pitched 30 innings and given up 3 runs. And that's with 2 regulars out. Off to good start.

I am tempering my enthusiasm because the Rays and Marlins have terrible lineups. If they do anything close to this against the Yankees, I will be pretty excited.

[Jasonbay44]

I am tempering my enthusiasm because the Rays and Marlins have terrible lineups. If they do anything close to this against the Yankees, I will be pretty excited.

 

That terrible Marlins lineup did rock Lester and Quintana. Its still impressive, regardless of team.

[a700hitter]

That terrible Marlins lineup did rock Lester and Quintana. Its still impressive, regardless of team.

I didn't see Quintana's game, but I did watch Schwarber help take an axe to Lester's game, but you are right that it is impressive against any major league team. Pitching was the strength of this team last season, and it will be the strength this season too.

[S5Dewey]

I am tempering my enthusiasm because the Rays and Marlins have terrible lineups. If they do anything close to this against the Yankees, I will be pretty excited.

I agree, and I have the same concerns about both the offense and the pitching/defense. The interesting thing about the schedule is that you have to play the teams as they're presented to you.

 

Let's just say that I'm much more optimistic now than I would have been if they'd gone 1-3. ☺

[Bellhorn04]

The point is not about being able to keep a good team together. It's about having the farm players to take over when the free agents leave, which also gives you more money to spend on other players, due to their low salaries.

 

I certainly get the farm stuff.

 

Perhaps I should rephrase: it's hard to keep a good young core together, even if you're one of the rich teams. That's a consequence of the combination of high salaries and the tax rules. Especially now with arb salaries for elite young players rising fairly rapidly.

[Nick]

We're going to lose this if we don't quit f***ing around with this pitcher. He was hit hard the last outing.

 

He walks the lead off batter up 7-2 in the 9th.

[moonslav59]

Our 5 starters have pitched 30 innings and given up 3 runs. And that's with 2 regulars out. Off to good start.

 

2 regulars and our 6th starter (Wright) out!

 

Not bad "depth"in the rotation.

[Larry Cook]

2 regulars and our 6th starter (Wright) out!

 

Not bad "depth"in the rotation.

 

Amen brother! Not to mention a reliever who might have been our 8th inning guy in Thornburg!

 

Even Maddox would be preferable to Walden.

[Nick]

2 regulars and our 6th starter (Wright) out!

 

Not bad "depth"in the rotation.

 

Moon and I approve today's line up. No "I can play all ;)7 positions equally badly" in the lineup.

[Maxbialystock]

Miami split four the Cubs, so that can't be horrible. First time thru, our rotation has been astounding. Hitting seems to be picking up--we'll see. Fielding, while errorless, is at best average. Except for game 1, bullpen has been above average. Thoreau spent too much time with Walden.

[cp176]

Right now it is all good - 5-1 against ml comp. no matter how good or how bad. Sox are doing what they should be doing. It was good to see a few bats teeing off last night. Some hard hits for a change. I'm a Sox fan so of course I have a few concerns:

1. Where is Marrero when we need him. As good as Hanley looked over there, that side of our infield is very shaky.

2. Walden really looks like a rookie who has a long way to go.

3. Benintendi and JBJ need to hit a little don't you think - right now they both look pathetic.

 

Good news outweighs the bad by a longshot though. That starting pitching has looked better than just very good. I hope Johnson sticks. He is a good compliment to the rest of the boys and their power arms. Never hurts to have another guy in there who knows how to pitch. And yes I would far prefer him in our rotation than our proverbial knuckleballer.

[moonslav59]

Amen brother! Not to mention a reliever who might have been our 8th inning guy in Thornburg!

 

Even Maddox would be preferable to Walden.

 

It's early, yet, and a small sample size for sure, but all the talk about DD neglecting starter depth now seems to be all for not.

 

When Pom, ERod and Wright return, we're going to have to decide to move Johnson to the pen or trade him, as he is out of options. Velazquez will be sent to AAA.

[moonslav59]

Miami split four the Cubs, so that can't be horrible. First time thru, our rotation has been astounding. Hitting seems to be picking up--we'll see. Fielding, while errorless, is at best average. Except for game 1, bullpen has been above average. Thoreau spent too much time with Walden.

 

Maybe Thoreau should spend some time with Kelly.

[moonslav59]

Right now it is all good - 5-1 against ml comp. no matter how good or how bad. Sox are doing what they should be doing. It was good to see a few bats teeing off last night. Some hard hits for a change. I'm a Sox fan so of course I have a few concerns:

1. Where is Marrero when we need him. As good as Hanley looked over there, that side of our infield is very shaky.

2. Walden really looks like a rookie who has a long way to go.

3. Benintendi and JBJ need to hit a little don't you think - right now they both look pathetic.

 

Good news outweighs the bad by a longshot though. That starting pitching has looked better than just very good. I hope Johnson sticks. He is a good compliment to the rest of the boys and their power arms. Never hurts to have another guy in there who knows how to pitch. And yes I would far prefer him in our rotation than our proverbial knuckleballer.

 

I think Beni will come around soon. Maybe that cheezy hit will be the start of something good.

 

Do you think Johnson to the pen is a foregone conclusion once (and if) all our starters are healthy?

[Natick to NC]

We need Homefield throughout to have a realistic shot at a World Series it starts by pounding teams that are taking steps back this year ...there are plenty of those.....Dominate at Home....these players are hand picked to win at Fenway and they will ...next don't worry about the Yankees or Houston ...These two teams are certainly talented but again take care of Buisiness and I see a path .Every game counts we cannot afford to lose early hammer down all the way to the line . Edited April 3, 2018 by Natick to NC

[Nick]

It's early, yet, and a small sample size for sure, but all the talk about DD neglecting starter depth now seems to be all for not.

 

When Pom, ERod and Wright return, we're going to have to decide to move Johnson to the pen or trade him, as he is out of options. Velazquez will be sent to AAA.

 

I would keep him in the pen.

[mvp 78]

I think Beni will come around soon. Maybe that cheezy hit will be the start of something good.

 

Do you think Johnson to the pen is a foregone conclusion once (and if) all our starters are healthy?

 

I'd rather have Johnson than Wright.

[moonslav59]

I'd rather have Johnson than Wright.

 

Wright might go to the pen as well, but the pen will be overloaded, if everyone, including Thornburg are healthy.

 

5 man rotation: Sale, Price, Pom, ERod, Porcello

 

7 man pen: Kimbrel, Smith, Thornburg, Barnes, Kelly, 2 from: Hembree, Johnson and Wright (all out of options)