A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[Emp9]

Sox should have moved Pedroia when MVP started barking about it.

 

He had value then.

 

Now he is likely a shell of himself with a surgically repaired knee.

 

He is most likely useless and of no values now.

 

I know we’ve had this discussion before. I don’t believe the sox could have contractually traded him. Ithink it was built in to his extention, tenure had nothing to do with it. At least thats what I remember, i could be wrong. I don’t think I am tho. Either way, it was considered a hometown discount at the time, maybe that was the trade-off?

[mvp 78]

I know we’ve had this discussion before. I don’t believe the sox could have contractually traded him. Ithink it was built in to his extention, tenure had nothing to do with it. At least thats what I remember, i could be wrong. I don’t think I am tho. Either way, it was considered a hometown discount at the time, maybe that was the trade-off?

 

How is "the highest contract for a 2b" considered a hometown discount?

[mvp 78]

@EvanDrellich

 

Red Sox aren’t sure if a lag in ticket sales, down ~6 percent, is a pace issue or an overall interest issue. “It was a slow offseason. Patriots, Celtics, Bruins -- there’s a lot of factors.”

 

1. Tickets/parking/food are too expensive.

 

2. The old people that actually still like baseball are dying off.

[cp176]

@EvanDrellich

 

Red Sox aren’t sure if a lag in ticket sales, down ~6 percent, is a pace issue or an overall interest issue. “It was a slow offseason. Patriots, Celtics, Bruins -- there’s a lot of factors.”

 

1. Tickets/parking/food are too expensive.

 

2. The old people that actually still like baseball are dying off.

 

Hey - easy with number 2 - many of us are still on top of the flowers

[moonslav59]

I know we’ve had this discussion before. I don’t believe the sox could have contractually traded him. Ithink it was built in to his extention, tenure had nothing to do with it. At least thats what I remember, i could be wrong. I don’t think I am tho. Either way, it was considered a hometown discount at the time, maybe that was the trade-off?

 

Here's what cots has...

 

Dustin Pedroia 2b

8 years/$110M (2014-21)

 

8 years/$110M (2014-21)

signed extension with Boston 7/24/13, replacing final year and option in previous contract

$1M signing bonus

14:$12.5M, 15:$12.5M, 16:$13M, 17:$15M, 18:$16M, 19:$15M, 20:$13M, 21:$12M

undisclosed amount of money to be deferred

limited no-trade protection

first $100M contract for a second baseman

[Emp9]

How is "the highest contract for a 2b" considered a hometown discount?

 

Maybe for the Red Sox, not all of baseball.

[mvp 78]

Hey - easy with number 2 - many of us are still on top of the flowers

 

Barely. We're all just slowly crawling towards death.

 

The only youthful person left on this board is Thunder.

[OH FOY]

@EvanDrellich

 

Red Sox aren’t sure if a lag in ticket sales, down ~6 percent, is a pace issue or an overall interest issue. “It was a slow offseason. Patriots, Celtics, Bruins -- there’s a lot of factors.”

 

1. Tickets/parking/food are too expensive.

 

2. The old people that actually still like baseball are dying off.

 

Bruins and Celtics big now especially the Bruins. Capturing a lot of Fans with this young team.

Edited March 30, 2018 by OH FOY!

[a700hitter]

@EvanDrellich

 

Red Sox aren’t sure if a lag in ticket sales, down ~6 percent, is a pace issue or an overall interest issue. “It was a slow offseason. Patriots, Celtics, Bruins -- there’s a lot of factors.”

 

1. Tickets/parking/food are too expensive.

 

2. The old people that actually still like baseball are dying off.

The geniuses who run baseball are being very successful at killing off the American pastime.

[mvp 78]

Bruins and Celtics big now especially the Bruins.

 

Ticket sales down, viewership down. It's hard to just blame the other sports franchises.

[OH FOY]

Ticket sales down, viewership down. It's hard to just blame the other sports franchises.

 

1st game of 162 game season, on the road. Bruins were going for 1st place. I would think a little more important. At least it was to me.

[mvp 78]

The geniuses who run baseball are being very successful at killing off the American pastime.

 

I blame the lack of cheap baseball cards. Bring back the $.50 wax pack!

 

Also, LAX should be banned.

 

Honestly, Bud Selig killed a lot of my childhood with interleague play, the 2002 All Star Game, being oblivious towards steriods and the subsequent 180 degree turn towards over punishment later on. (And that guy's in the HOF!)

[Emp9]

Here's what cots has...

 

Dustin Pedroia 2b

8 years/$110M (2014-21)

 

8 years/$110M (2014-21)

signed extension with Boston 7/24/13, replacing final year and option in previous contract

$1M signing bonus

14:$12.5M, 15:$12.5M, 16:$13M, 17:$15M, 18:$16M, 19:$15M, 20:$13M, 21:$12M

undisclosed amount of money to be deferred

limited no-trade protection

first $100M contract for a second baseman

 

EVERYONE and their f***ing grandmother KNEW Cano would get more. Was it a 2 weeks later? 2014, 10yrs@$240M. Pick any individual year, Pedroia has never been the highest paid 2B ever. This is semantics

[mvp 78]

1st game of 162 game season, on the road. Bruins were going for 1st place. I would think a little more important. At least it was to me.

 

I was referring to their overall trend. https://thebiglead.com/2017/07/11/the-red-sox-are-in-1st-place-but-their-nesn-tv-ratings-are-down-20-percent/

[moonslav59]

EVERYONE and their f***ing grandmother KNEW Cano would get more. Was it a 2 weeks later? 2014, 10yrs@$240M. Pick any individual year, Pedroia has never been the highest paid 2B ever. This is semantics

 

Singing to the choir.

[Emp9]

Singing to the choir.

 

Ha! Here’s a question. If we could lock up Devers or Mookie for 14 years under $11M (average) annually, would you do it?

[moonslav59]

Ha! Here’s a question. If we could lock up Devers or Mookie for 14 years under $11M (average) annually, would you do it?

 

Yes. Both are worth more than $22M/7, so why not?

[Emp9]

Yes. Both are worth more than $22M/7, so why not?

 

What happens when/if their not? Besides early arbitrations, that’s what we’re paying Pedroia between his two contracts. Forget Mookie, maybe not a good comparison (but injuries do happen). XB, Beni, Devers, maybe JBJ are all way better comps. Unless I’m mistaken. Did they buy out a year of Pedey’s first extention?

Edited March 30, 2018 by Emp9

[moonslav59]

What happens when/if their not? Besides early arbitrations, that’s what we’re paying Pedroia between his two contracts. Forget Mookie, maybe not a good comparison (but injuries do happen). XB, Beni, Devers, maybe JBJ are all way better comps. Unless I’m mistaken. Did they buy out a year of Pedey’s first extention?

 

Pedey was scheduled to earn $10M in 2014 and had a sure fire option for 2015 at $11M, He ended up making $25M those two years, instead of $21M, then the extension kicked in at $$85M/6.

 

[cp176]

Pedey was scheduled to earn $10M in 2014 and had a sure fire option for 2015 at $11M, He ended up making $25M those two years, instead of $21M, then the extension kicked in at $$85M/6.

 

 

He is doing very well I guess. He makes more than Chris Sale.

[moonslav59]

He is doing very well I guess. He makes more than Chris Sale.

 

Had Pedey ever gone to free agency, he'd probably have made more than the Sox gave him.

 

Sale will make a killing!

[Emp9]

He is doing very well I guess. He makes more than Chris Sale.

 

That’s not saying much

[Northern Star]

So just checking if 0-1 is too early to freak out that they're going to crash and burn and miss the playoffs?

 

 

Also: Thanks, Ben.

[Emp9]

Pedey was scheduled to earn $10M in 2014 and had a sure fire option for 2015 at $11M, He ended up making $25M those two years, instead of $21M, then the extension kicked in at $$85M/6.

 

 

Just a few thoughts... 1) I was wrong, Pedey’s first contract was the massive hometown discount. The 2nd was more on par with the market at the time. My mistake. Still could’ve made more in FA I think. 2) Yes, in-writing, and by date of contract signed (late July) - not when contract took affect (the following season) - he was highest paid 2B. Cano’s contract that Dec eclipsed that. Both Cano & Kinsler were making more annually regardless. 3) Still pretty sure there was wording of no trade clause on his first or second contract. Most reports at the time of the 2nd contract said there WAS an actually no-trade clause in it. When that changed, if it did, i do not know. 4) Still, trading a franchise player you’re in active talks with, with .76 (?) months left of his 10 yr service time date would have been... i don’t know?... A “dick move”. 5) Plus, all this said, if my math is right, if you combine his contracts over the years until they expire, he’s averaging less than $11M a year. He was ROY, MVP, 4 AS, 4 GG, SS, 2 WS Rings. FCS, he had a fine 2016. He’d have had a fine 2017 if f***face didn’t spike him. What can I say? I don’t feel bad about his contract and I’m glad he’s on the team. MVP, you’re a great poster, I just don’t get your Pedroia hate man. If Pedey is hurt and out the next 2-3 seasons, sure, I can see ppl complaining. Until then, the complaints aren’t valid in my book.

[Emp9]

So just checking if 0-1 is too early to freak out that they're going to crash and burn and miss the playoffs?

 

 

Also: Thanks, Ben.

 

You’re actually too late. Season’s over bud.

[moonslav59]

Just a few thoughts... 1) I was wrong, Pedey’s first contract was the massive hometown discount. The 2nd was more on par with the market at the time. My mistake. Still could’ve made more in FA I think. 2) Yes, in-writing, and by date of contract signed (late July) - not when contract took affect (the following season) - he was highest paid 2B. Cano’s contract that Dec eclipsed that. Both Cano & Kinsler were making more annually regardless. 3) Still pretty sure there was wording of no trade clause on his first or second contract. Most reports at the time of the 2nd contract said there WAS an actually no-trade clause in it. When that changed, if it did, i do not know. 4) Still, trading a franchise player you’re in active talks with, with .76 (?) months left of his 10 yr service time date would have been... i don’t know?... A “dick move”. 5) Plus, all this said, if my math is right, if you combine his contracts over the years until they expire, he’s averaging less than $11M a year. He was ROY, MVP, 4 AS, 4 GG, SS, 2 WS Rings. FCS, he had a fine 2016. He’d have had a fine 2017 if f***face didn’t spike him. What can I say? I don’t feel bad about his contract and I’m glad he’s on the team. MVP, you’re a great poster, I just don’t get your Pedroia hate man. If Pedey is hurt and out the next 2-3 seasons, sure, I can see ppl complaining. Until then, the complaints aren’t valid in my book.

 

I'm sure everyone's average career salary looks lower when you factor in the early year salaries. I'm not sure that's a good way of justifying a contract signed as a player nears or is at or past prime.

 

I was happy with both Pedey signings. The first one was a home town discount, for sure. The second one was probably still below market value at the time.

 

Does anyone think the Sox would have said no to Pedey's 2015 option at $11M just because he had put up a .712 OPS in 2014?

 

I guess an argument could be made not to resign him after the 2015 season at market rates. His OPS+ numbers after those two great seasons in 2010 and 2011 (127 and 131) never really came close afterwards.

 

114 in 2012

115 in 2013

99 in 2014

112 in 2015 (93 games)

 

After that contract would have run out, he's been at...

 

117 in 2016

101 in 2017 (105 games)

[cp176]

That’s not saying much

 

Absolutely because Sale is what 29 and makes less than 13. Now I realize that that still is a fair sum of money and I really think that this guy is about a lot of other things than money but If continues on the path that he has been on for quite some time now, I hope he gets his payday accordingly. I hope Boston finds a way to keep him. We are very fortunate to have certainly one of the very best in the game pitching for us.

[moonslav59]

Absolutely because Sale is what 29 and makes less than 13. Now I realize that that still is a fair sum of money and I really think that this guy is about a lot of other things than money but If continues on the path that he has been on for quite some time now, I hope he gets his payday accordingly. I hope Boston finds a way to keep him. We are very fortunate to have certainly one of the very best in the game pitching for us.

 

I totally agree. I've always been a huge Sale fan and was extremely happy when we got him.

 

It might be hard to have a player budget with over $62M/yr spent on just two starters. I hope we find a way, but it probably would mean good bye to Kimbrel and Bogey or Pom and JBJ.

 

Losing HRam and Pablo's contracts help but not by enough to pay all the arbs and then re-sign guys like ....

 

Chris Freakin' Sale!

 

 

 

[Emp9]

Absolutely because Sale is what 29 and makes less than 13. Now I realize that that still is a fair sum of money and I really think that this guy is about a lot of other things than money but If continues on the path that he has been on for quite some time now, I hope he gets his payday accordingly. I hope Boston finds a way to keep him. We are very fortunate to have certainly one of the very best in the game pitching for us.

 

What i mean is that it’s not by much and it won’t be for long. 1) we paid a heavy price in prospects to get Sale at his current salary. That was part of it. 2) Pedey only makes 16M one year, this year. Then it creeps back down again.

 

I’m sure Sale will make double the money Pedroia will ever make and more.

[moonslav59]

Upcoming salary relief:

 

$22M HRam after 2018 or 2019

$3.8M Kelly after 2018

$19M Pablo after 2019

$21M Porcello after 2019

$6.5M Moreland after 2019

$??? Holt after 2019 (at $2.2M now)

$??? Thornburg after 2019 ($2.1M now)

 

Going to be hard to replace at current costs:

$13M Kimbrel after 2018

$8.5M Pom after 2018

$13M C Sale after 2019

$??? Bogey after 2019

$4M Nunez after 2019

 

Betts & JBJ after 2020.