The Depth Argument

[Larry Cook]

In my mind,whichever team ( us or the Yankees) adds more pitching between now and April will be the team to beat next year!

[jacksonianmarch]

In my mind,whichever team ( us or the Yankees) adds more pitching between now and April will be the team to beat next year!

 

It's not about adding pitching. The sox have 6 legitimate starting options once they are all healthy. The Yankees have 5 healthy big league guys right now with 4 top prospects in AAA and a swing guy down there. We have the depth. The sox have the depth. It comes down to health.

[sk7326]

So why is unknown Aaron Boone a potential liability in NY but unknown Alex Cora such a strength for Boston?

 

I don't know about either ... but Cora has actual experience

 

1. on a big league coaching staff

2. being a manager in a professional setting

 

Boone's best credential is hitting that homerun and seemingly not being as big a jerk as his brother

[notin]

I don't know about either ... but Cora has actual experience

 

1. on a big league coaching staff

2. being a manager in a professional setting

 

Boone's best credential is hitting that homerun and seemingly not being as big a jerk as his brother

 

Boone came from a three generation baseball family that supposedly did nothing but talk about baseball.

 

As for Cora, if you're one of those"pressures of Boston" people, then who really knows what happens to him or how he will react, etc?

[moonslav59]

It's not about adding pitching. The sox have 6 legitimate starting options once they are all healthy. The Yankees have 5 healthy big league guys right now with 4 top prospects in AAA and a swing guy down there. We have the depth. The sox have the depth. It comes down to health.

 

True, but we already know ERod will miss a big chunk at the start of the season, so we already know "health" is an issue.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree. I’m more talking about your trio of towers at the top. If Sale gets hurt or Pom regresses or gets hurt or Price doesn’t rebound then you’re dead no matter who you add

[Bellhorn04]

I agree. I’m more talking about your trio of towers at the top. If Sale gets hurt or Pom regresses or gets hurt or Price doesn’t rebound then you’re dead no matter who you add

 

Price missed most of the 2017 season and we still won 93 games. If he doesn't rebound it would hurt for sure, but there are always X factors no one can foresee.

[jacksonianmarch]

Your best chance for stability is for the top of your rotation to be healthy and performing. Your team won last year at a ridiculous clip IMO due to your closer. You got a lead late and you didn’t give it up. Kimbrel was insane and I don’t think you can expect another historic season out of him. A little more consistency would do your team well

[sk7326]

Bottom line (for the Sox, or Yanks or anybody) is if the top of the rotation starts to bleed, things get complicated quickly. There are very few teams that can truly survive losing it's #1 or #2 pitcher.

[sk7326]

Boone came from a three generation baseball family that supposedly did nothing but talk about baseball.

 

As for Cora, if you're one of those"pressures of Boston" people, then who really knows what happens to him or how he will react, etc?

 

I am pretty sure there was nothing in the chromosomes which helps in this area. I am glad they talk about baseball - it's not the same as actually doing the job. Now Boone might be better than Girardi - but Girardi sets a pretty good standard. Boone's experience on the media side and playing in NY should help with that part of the job (which in NY and Boston is very large)

 

Of course that is essentially what the "pressure" part is vis a vis managing in these markets. Cora has more actual experience in the coaching/front office side ... with similar media qualifications.

[moonslav59]

Your best chance for stability is for the top of your rotation to be healthy and performing. Your team won last year at a ridiculous clip IMO due to your closer. You got a lead late and you didn’t give it up. Kimbrel was insane and I don’t think you can expect another historic season out of him. A little more consistency would do your team well

 

Kimbrel was great, but what was more "insane" was the rest of the pen minus their 3 top set up men all year: Smith, Thornburg and Ross (the most under appreciated RP'er the Sox had for the 2-3 year period before 2017).

 

Barnes and Hembree were viewed as bums by many before the season. Same with Kelly. I'm hopeful we can repeat of improve on that production.

 

We lost...

IP/ERA/WHIP

44/3.30/1.237 Abad

41/4.35/1.548 Boyer

27/3.33/0.926 Reed

9 /7.00/1.889 Ross

(Pirce RP'er IP to SP'er IP)

 

We gain...

Full season from Smith

Full season from Workman (40 IP/ 3.18/ 1.210)

Full season from Maddox (17/0.52/0.865)

Partial season from Thornburg?

 

Returning key FT pen arms:

 

IP Pitcher ERA/WHIP

69 Kimbrel 1.43/0.681 (certainly "insane" numbers)

70 Barnes 3.88/1.22

58 Kelly 2.79/1.190

36 Scott 3.79/0.981

 

If the pen is all healthy, it looks very scary.

 

Closer: Kimbrel

RP2 Thornburg

RP3 Smith

RP4 Kelly (was out RP2 in 2017)

RP5 Barnes (Was out #3)

RP6 Maddox

RP7 Scott

RP8 Hembree (Was our #4)

Depth: Workman, Taylor, Johnson, Velazquez, Elias, Buttrey, Martin, Poyner,,,

[Larry Cook]

It's not about adding pitching. The sox have 6 legitimate starting options once they are all healthy. The Yankees have 5 healthy big league guys right now with 4 top prospects in AAA and a swing guy down there. We have the depth. The sox have the depth. It comes down to health.

 

Then why are the Yankees reportedly after cole?

[jacksonianmarch]

Cole is a game changing pitcher, when healthy. If we can get him without touching our very top prospects, then why not? Otherwise, we are set without him

[jacksonianmarch]

Price missed most of the 2017 season and we still won 93 games. If he doesn't rebound it would hurt for sure, but there are always X factors no one can foresee.

 

You won’t be able to survive that and win the ALE this time around. The sox did win the ALE, but this time we have a full season of Gray, Robertson, Kahnle, and Stanton plus our young guys got significant experience last year.

[Bellhorn04]

You won’t be able to survive that and win the ALE this time around. The sox did win the ALE, but this time we have a full season of Gray, Robertson, Kahnle, and Stanton plus our young guys got significant experience last year.

 

Oh I agree. But we might still be able to grab a Wild Card spot.

[moonslav59]

You won’t be able to survive that and win the ALE this time around. The sox did win the ALE, but this time we have a full season of Gray, Robertson, Kahnle, and Stanton plus our young guys got significant experience last year.

 

...and we have a full season of Devers, Smith, Maddox, Workman and Price.

[Spudboy]

...and we have a full season of Devers, Smith, Maddox, Workman and Price.

 

And the Sox should start the season with a healthy Betts and Bogey.

 

All is not lost.

[harmony]

...and we have a full season of Devers, Smith, Maddox, Workman and Price.

We can hope for the best but what are the chances that all five make it through the season without a stint on the disabled list?

 

Especially with the 10-day disabled list, I'd put the over/under at 3 on the number of combined DL stints for those five players.

[moonslav59]

We can hope for the best but what are the chances that all five make it through the season without a stint on the disabled list?

 

Especially with the 10-day disabled list, I'd put the over/under at 3 on the number of combined DL stints for those five players.

 

I'd be more than fine with these 5 players missing just a combined 30-40 games, it's the long term DLs that will kill us.

[jacksonianmarch]

And the Sox should start the season with a healthy Betts and Bogey.

 

All is not lost.

 

What I am saying is, you wont survive another season of Price being out

[notin]

What I am saying is, you wont survive another season of Price being out

 

Unless the Sox acquire say, Darvish or Arrieta instead of Martinez.

 

Or unless the Yankees have injuries.

 

Or unless the Red Sox just get a couple players to have bounce back or career years. The Sox won 93 games without him last year. Since the Yankees aren't going to improve up to winning 110 games or so, exactly how much better do the Sox really need to get? 7 more games? 8 more?

 

Simply saying "[the Sox] won't survive" this injury or that injury is being overly dramatic about the whole thing. Maybe the Yankees can't survive a season where Sonny Gray doesn't get hurt...

[moonslav59]

Or unless the Red Sox just get a couple players to have bounce back or career years.

 

Would anyone be blown away, if Betts, Devers or Beni had huge MVP type seasons?

 

Hell, even Bogey, JBJ or HRam could have very big seasons.

 

We have 3 Cy Young caliber pitchers plus a solid #2 like Pom.

 

Would it hurt if Price missed the whole year?

 

Hell yes, but we can win without any one player.

[S5Dewey]

The one who would surprise me the least if he had a breakout year is JBJ. Sometimes a player who has extremely hot and cold streaks is going to 'get it'. His hot streaks are so profound that I keep thinking that he's just a tweak away from being a .900 OPS guy.

[mvp 78]

Would anyone be blown away, if Betts, Devers or Beni had huge MVP type seasons?

 

Hell, even Bogey, JBJ or HRam could have very big seasons.

 

We have 3 Cy Young caliber pitchers plus a solid #2 like Pom.

 

Would it hurt if Price missed the whole year?

 

Hell yes, but we can win without any one player.

 

I can envision all of that, but probably not at the same time. Would be nice.

[bkzwhitestrican]

Even though he actually won a Cy Young, thinking of Porcello as a CY caliber pitcher makes me chuckle.

[mvp 78]

Even though he actually won a Cy Young, thinking of Porcello as a CY caliber pitcher makes me chuckle.

 

Makes me chuckle too. If he wins the CY this year, the Yanks will have lost the division most likely.

[Carpin]

Makes me chuckle too. If he wins the CY this year, the Yanks will have lost the division most likely.

 

A big "IF", but yeah I agree with you.

 

Either way one team will win the division and the other will get in as WC, I have no doubt about it. No other team in the division is even close.

[notin]

Even though he actually won a Cy Young, thinking of Porcello as a CY caliber pitcher makes me chuckle.

 

But then it's also easy to forget that, despite his long career, Rick Porcello is still only 28 years old (and turning 29 tomorrow).

 

He's 3 days older than Brentz, a guy who many feel has finally earned a chance...

[Spudboy]

A big "IF", but yeah I agree with you.

 

Either way one team will win the division and the other will get in as WC, I have no doubt about it. No other team in the division is even close.

 

While it is still "early" ( lol ), none of the other three teams in the division appear to have done much to enhance their chances for 1st or 2nd in the division. Tampa looks to have weaken their roster but those pricks have a knack for having what seems an endless stream of talented prospects.

 

So you never know what they can do.

[moonslav59]

The one who would surprise me the least if he had a breakout year is JBJ. Sometimes a player who has extremely hot and cold streaks is going to 'get it'. His hot streaks are so profound that I keep thinking that he's just a tweak away from being a .900 OPS guy.

 

JBJ did put together two seasons in a eow between .830 and .835. I realize both of those seasons were fueled by having one phenomenal month, but I agree.

He could easily have a .900 or even .950 month by just having 2 great months or just not being so awful in the other 4-5 months. He could maybe hit 30 HRs some season soon,