Stanton or Votto

[Spudboy]

So it APPEARS that DD did not inquire or make a legit offer to the Marlins?

 

That is nuts if true.

[mvp 78]

@bostonsportsinf

 

2018 Payroll

 

Yankees

Giancarlo Stanton - $25,000,000

Projected HR's - 50

 

Red Sox

Pablo Sandoval/Rusney Castillo - $29,771,428

Projected HR's - 0

 

Thanks Ben

[mvp 78]

@EvanDrellich

 

As previously reported, the Red Sox felt Giancarlo Stanton was too expensive all around for what Marlins wanted:

[Jack Flap]

Let me put it this way...we've all been assuming Stanton would not accept a trade to Boston because we were not on his preferred list of four, and I've been willing to accept that explanation because it's frankly the only thing that makes sense. The thing is, those four also happen to be the four LCS teams from this year, and I have to wonder if that's why he named them - and if that's the case, it stands to reason that he could be talked into a team that won 93 games this year fell just two wins short of the ALCS. If he has some specific reason not to consider Boston, I've never heard of it and it certainly wasn't apparent from his or his agent's comments today.

 

We know the Cardinals and Giants weren't on Stanton's list, but they still put in the effort to work out a trade with the Marlins, and at least got a chance to sit down with Stanton and make their case as a result...but we never even got that far. Maybe he never would have approved a trade to Boston no matter what, but if we never really tried, we'll never know.

 

There were reports from early on that the Marlins' asking price was unrealistic and too high for the Red Sox, and yet in the end, they settled for very little in talent and even ate some of the contract. I almost have to wonder whether this was a Donaldson-to-Toronto situation where the RS didn't like the initial ask, so they gave up and moved on, allowing a more persistent team to strike and get their target for much less when the price went down. Or maybe we were just never that interested to begin with, which I would find inexplicable. (Stanton is objectively better than Martinez, Hosmer, Abreu, and all the other options being kicked around, and while his contract is huge, $25 million per year shouldn't be crippling and simply isn't that much any more for an elite talent.)

 

So yes, Dave has some explaining to do. If we never had a shot at Stanton, that would be one thing, but if we allowed a player who perfectly fits our biggest need go to our biggest rival for peanuts without first exhausting every avenue to prevent this, that has to be viewed as a colossal blunder, no way around it. Like, I'm on the verge of joining the Jeter-Yankees collusion conspiracy crowd, because that just makes no f***ing sense.

[Slasher9]

Let me put it this way...we've all been assuming Stanton would not accept a trade to Boston because we were not on his preferred list of four, and I've been willing to accept that explanation because it's frankly the only thing that makes sense. The thing is, those four also happen to be the four LCS teams from this year, and I have to wonder if that's why he named them - and if that's the case, it stands to reason that he could be talked into a team that won 93 games this year fell just two wins short of the ALCS. If he has some specific reason not to consider Boston, I've never heard of it and it certainly wasn't apparent from his or his agent's comments today.

 

We know the Cardinals and Giants weren't on Stanton's list, but they still put in the effort to work out a trade with the Marlins, and at least got a chance to sit down with Stanton and make their case as a result...but we never even got that far. Maybe he never would have approved a trade to Boston no matter what, but if we never really tried, we'll never know.

 

There were reports from early on that the Marlins' asking price was unrealistic and too high for the Red Sox, and yet in the end, they settled for very little in talent and even ate some of the contract. I almost have to wonder whether this was a Donaldson-to-Toronto situation where the RS didn't like the initial ask, so they gave up and moved on, allowing a more persistent team to strike and get their target for much less when the price went down. Or maybe we were just never that interested to begin with, which I would find inexplicable. (Stanton is objectively better than Martinez, Hosmer, Abreu, and all the other options being kicked around, and while his contract is huge, $25 million per year shouldn't be crippling and simply isn't that much any more for an elite talent.)

 

So yes, Dave has some explaining to do. If we never had a shot at Stanton, that would be one thing, but if we allowed a player who perfectly fits our biggest need go to our biggest rival for peanuts without first exhausting every avenue to prevent this, that has to be viewed as a colossal blunder, no way around it. Like, I'm on the verge of joining the Jeter-Yankees collusion conspiracy crowd, because that just makes no f***ing sense.

 

easily Post of the Day.....

[mvp 78]

@jcmccaffrey

 

So far today we've learned the Red Sox have made Jackie Bradley Jr. available in trade talks but also that they told Stanton's agent they wanted to keep their outfield intact....

 

Can't believe much of anything this time of the year.

[Jack Flap]

@jcmccaffrey

 

So far today we've learned the Red Sox have made Jackie Bradley Jr. available in trade talks but also that they told Stanton's agent they wanted to keep their outfield intact....

 

Can't believe much of anything this time of the year.

 

The same agent said he thought the Red Sox were more focused on pitching than bats...I'm sure he's being truthful, but I don't know if I'd necessarily trust his insight into what the Red Sox are doing.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Jack Flap

[Spudboy]

Let me put it this way...we've all been assuming Stanton would not accept a trade to Boston because we were not on his preferred list of four, and I've been willing to accept that explanation because it's frankly the only thing that makes sense. The thing is, those four also happen to be the four LCS teams from this year, and I have to wonder if that's why he named them - and if that's the case, it stands to reason that he could be talked into a team that won 93 games this year fell just two wins short of the ALCS. If he has some specific reason not to consider Boston, I've never heard of it and it certainly wasn't apparent from his or his agent's comments today.

 

We know the Cardinals and Giants weren't on Stanton's list, but they still put in the effort to work out a trade with the Marlins, and at least got a chance to sit down with Stanton and make their case as a result...but we never even got that far. Maybe he never would have approved a trade to Boston no matter what, but if we never really tried, we'll never know.

 

There were reports from early on that the Marlins' asking price was unrealistic and too high for the Red Sox, and yet in the end, they settled for very little in talent and even ate some of the contract. I almost have to wonder whether this was a Donaldson-to-Toronto situation where the RS didn't like the initial ask, so they gave up and moved on, allowing a more persistent team to strike and get their target for much less when the price went down. Or maybe we were just never that interested to begin with, which I would find inexplicable. (Stanton is objectively better than Martinez, Hosmer, Abreu, and all the other options being kicked around, and while his contract is huge, $25 million per year shouldn't be crippling and simply isn't that much any more for an elite talent.)

 

So yes, Dave has some explaining to do. If we never had a shot at Stanton, that would be one thing, but if we allowed a player who perfectly fits our biggest need go to our biggest rival for peanuts without first exhausting every avenue to prevent this, that has to be viewed as a colossal blunder, no way around it. Like, I'm on the verge of joining the Jeter-Yankees collusion conspiracy crowd, because that just makes no f***ing sense.

 

 

Good post.

[cp176]

I guess our man just wasn't feeling desperate. I'm still all in on a Martinez sign. Maybe one for first. If not sign Moreland. A package including Bradley for quality pitching works for me. I like Jackie. He has been fun to watch but it might be time to move him if there is a partner out there willing to give up something solid.

[moonslav59]

With limited options due to a weak farm and somewhat limited budget, signing an OF'er and trading JBJ for pitching makes some sense.

 

I hate to lose the best defensive starting CF I've seen play for the Sox. (Fred Lynn & Darren Lewis were close).

[Bellhorn04]

FWIW today Dombrowski said reports of JBJ being shopped are 'not accurate'.

[moonslav59]

FWIW today Dombrowski said reports of JBJ being shopped are 'not accurate'.

 

Not surprising.

[cp176]

FWIW today Dombrowski said reports of JBJ being shopped are 'not accurate'.

 

 

If you can't simply report the news, why not just create some! lol

[Jack Flap]

FWIW today Dombrowski said reports of JBJ being shopped are 'not accurate'.

 

Not saying they are or aren't at this point, but that's exactly what he'd say if he was shopping JBJ, too.

[Kimmi]

DD has some 'splainin to do.......

 

Maybe DD is finally wising up.

[Kimmi]

@EvanDrellich

 

As previously reported, the Red Sox felt Giancarlo Stanton was too expensive all around for what Marlins wanted:

 

Yup, DD is wising up!

[harmony]

FanGraphs columnist Dave Cameron writes about the Giancarlo Stanton trade:

 

Jorge Guzman, specifically, looks like a Top 100 prospect, as a guy who throws 100 mph and put up video game numbers in the minors last year. As a 50 FV guy with plenty of upside if he keeps developing, we’d estimate that Guzman is probably worth something like $20 million in value by himself. Devers is too far away to put a ton of value on, but he’s probably worth at least a few million.

 

In other words, the two prospects the Marlins got are probably worth close to the amount of Stanton’s contract that the Marlins kept on the books. If they can move Castro without paying down his deal — which they should be able to do — then the deal won’t be all that different from if they just let Stanton go on waivers, except they were willing to use some cash to buy upside prospects, which is exactly what rebuilding teams should be doing.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-the-marlins-did-and-didnt-mess-up/

[jacksonianmarch]

And once again Keith Law is late to the party. Guzman has some of the best pure stuff in the minors and has the hardest fastball in all of the minors and second in all of baseball only to Chapman. The kid has the stuff to either be an elite reliever or develop into a front line ace. His proximity to the bigs made it easy to deal him. His stuff is insane

[Larry Cook]

Even if Guzman was a top 20 prospect, the price the Yankees paid to Miami seemed very light.

[Emp9]

Not saying they are or aren't at this point, but that's exactly what he'd say if he was shopping JBJ, too.

 

No. Exactly. ...

 

I mean yes.

[S5Dewey]

I was at an event tonight where Stiggy, O'Brien, Neverett & Butterfield were present and taking questions from the audience. When asked about the rumor that the Sox were shopping JBJ, IIRC it was O'B who said that the entire pitching staff is hoping that's not true. They love having that guy out there.

 

I asked the question of how "It's not me, it's them" played in the clubhouse. It got really quiet, then Butterfield deflected by talking about what a great baseball person Pedey is and how he shows up early for every game, etc., etc., etc. The closest thing to an answer I got was when Butter said that a person with Pedey's standing on the team gets cut a lot of leeway sometimes.

[a700hitter]

I was at an event tonight where Stiggy, O'Brien, Neverett & Butterfield were present and taking questions from the audience. When asked about the rumor that the Sox were shopping JBJ, IIRC it was O'B who said that the entire pitching staff is hoping that's not true. They love having that guy out there.

 

I asked the question of how "It's not me, it's them" played in the clubhouse. It got really quiet, then Butterfield deflected by talking about what a great baseball person Pedey is and how he shows up early for every game, etc., etc., etc. The closest thing to an answer I got was when Butter said that a person with Pedey's standing on the team gets cut a lot of leeway sometimes.

I think we can read between the lines on that answer. The clubhouse didn't like it.

 

It sounds like it was a fun event.

[Larry Cook]

I was at an event tonight where Stiggy, O'Brien, Neverett & Butterfield were present and taking questions from the audience. When asked about the rumor that the Sox were shopping JBJ, IIRC it was O'B who said that the entire pitching staff is hoping that's not true. They love having that guy out there.

 

I asked the question of how "It's not me, it's them" played in the clubhouse. It got really quiet, then Butterfield deflected by talking about what a great baseball person Pedey is and how he shows up early for every game, etc., etc., etc. The closest thing to an answer I got was when Butter said that a person with Pedey's standing on the team gets cut a lot of leeway sometimes.

 

Great stuff. I still contend that pedroia fractured the clubhouse with that incident and Farrell was never able to get the team past it.

[Bellhorn04]

Great stuff. I still contend that pedroia fractured the clubhouse with that incident and Farrell was never able to get the team past it.

 

So how did they manage to win the division?

[Slasher9]

FWIW today Dombrowski said reports of JBJ being shopped are 'not accurate'.

lol. this means JBj will be traded today. dang.

[Slasher9]

Maybe DD is finally wising up.

 

lol. if that is the case i wish he did that before giving price the worst contract ever written.

[Slasher9]

And once again Keith Law is late to the party. Guzman has some of the best pure stuff in the minors and has the hardest fastball in all of the minors and second in all of baseball only to Chapman. The kid has the stuff to either be an elite reliever or develop into a front line ace. His proximity to the bigs made it easy to deal him. His stuff is insane

 

of course he does. he was a YANKEES. and YANKEES are the best at everything. best team. best owner. best farm. best GM. best manager. best A prospects. best AA prospects. best AAA prospects. best independant league prospects. best mexican league prospects. best AFL prospects. best factory in dominican republic. best doctors. best assistant coaches. best bat boy. best clubhouse.

THANK GOD YOU COME HERE EVERYDAY AND TELL US HOW AMAZING EVERYTHING THE NEW YORK f***ING YANKEES ARE AND HOW EVERYTHING THEY DO IS THE BEST.

[Slasher9]

I was at an event tonight where Stiggy, O'Brien, Neverett & Butterfield were present and taking questions from the audience. When asked about the rumor that the Sox were shopping JBJ, IIRC it was O'B who said that the entire pitching staff is hoping that's not true. They love having that guy out there.

 

I asked the question of how "It's not me, it's them" played in the clubhouse. It got really quiet, then Butterfield deflected by talking about what a great baseball person Pedey is and how he shows up early for every game, etc., etc., etc. The closest thing to an answer I got was when Butter said that a person with Pedey's standing on the team gets cut a lot of leeway sometimes.

 

YOU ARE THE BEST!

awesome job steve!

that is EPIC.

very telling answer: "gets cut a lot of leeway"

that HAD to have been the best question of the night. i swear to god, i bet after the forum those guys were backstage and definitely talked about your question. "holy s***, can you believe someone asked about the pedroia incident" "f***, i wasnt sure how to answer that"

AHAHAHAHAHA. awesome.

[Slasher9]

So how did they manage to win the division?

 

the question should be:

do you think we would have won the WS without the fractured clubhouse and weak manager?

[Bellhorn04]

the question should be:

do you think we would have won the WS without the fractured clubhouse and weak manager?

 

I think we got beat by a better team.