A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[moonslav59]

I don't think Devers was in DD's 2017 plans.

 

Beni was.

[mvp 78]

So dombrowski’s grand plan was to rely on two prospects that he rushed through the minor leagues?

 

Isn’t that the definition of desperation!!!!

 

Is desperate dave’s Plan to have a collection of 25 good players or is his plan to build an organization with chemistry and depth!

 

Rushed? They aren't rushed if they're ready. Was Trout rushed? Did that hurt his longterm viability? Was Bryce Harper rushed when he had a 4.6 WAR in his second professional season?

[moonslav59]

Does hindsight then mean JBJ was rushed, because he sucked when he was called up?

[mvp 78]

Does hindsight then mean JBJ was rushed, because he sucked when he was called up?

 

In 13 and 14, he had 150+ games in MLB and couldn't hit .200. He was probably rushed.

[mvp 78]

Just compare Beni and Dever's AA OPS with JBJ. It's not close.

[Larry Cook]

Rushed? They aren't rushed if they're ready. Was Trout rushed? Did that hurt his longterm viability? Was Bryce Harper rushed when he had a 4.6 WAR in his second professional season?

 

So desperate dave predicted that a 20 year old starting the year in double a was going to to make it to Boston and contribute to our team by August?

 

Clearly I need to contact desperate dave so he can give me the winning power ball numbers for th next drawing.

[moonslav59]

In 13 and 14, he had 150+ games in MLB and couldn't hit .200. He was probably rushed.

 

My position is that you can't just tell by looking at the numbers in hindsight.

 

Personally, I don't think JBJ or Beni were rushed.

 

I don't think Devers was "ready" defensively, but was brought up out of necessity. I guess one could call that "rushed". I would not.

[moonslav59]

Just compare Beni and Dever's AA OPS with JBJ. It's not close.

 

JBJ

AA (at age 22) .809 in 271 PAs

AAA (at age 23) .849 in 374 PAs

 

Beni

AA (at age 21) .872 in 263 PAs

 

With JBJ's superior defense, even at age 21, I don't see a big difference in overall skill level and "ML readiness" between the two at age 21-22.

[Larry Cook]

I have to wonder if the major leagues is the best place for a 3rd baseman with defensive development issues.

 

I have to think our pitchers are not all that overjoyed by it as well!!!!

[moonslav59]

I have to wonder if the major leagues is the best place for a 3rd baseman with defensive development issues.

 

I have to think our pitchers are not all that overjoyed by it as well!!!!

 

I'm still fine with signing Moustakas (or Machado next winter) and moving Devers to 1B.

[moonslav59]

Merry Christmas from John Henry...

 

Sign: JD Martinez, Santana & Shaw

Trade: JBJ, ERod, Hembree & Chavis for Chris Archer

 

1. Bogey SS

2. Betts RF

3. Beni CF

4. Martinez LF

5. Santana 1B

6. Devers 3B

7. HRam DH

8. Pedey 2B

9. Vaz C

Bench- Leon, Swihart, Hernandez, Brentz

 

SP: Sale, Archer, Price, Pom, Porcello, Wright

RP: Kimbrel, Shaw, Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Scott, Maddox

 

ML-ready on the farm

C- Romanski

1B- Chavis, Travis & Ockimey by August?

2B- Quiroz

3B- Holt (Chavis)

SS- Lin, Marrero (out of options)

OF- Castillo, Tavarez, Barfield & Mars

SP- Johnson, Velazquez, Beeks, Elias, Haley, Shepherd

RP- Thornburg, Workman, Taylor, Buttrey & Martin

 

 

[sk7326]

JBJ

AA (at age 22) .809 in 271 PAs

AAA (at age 23) .849 in 374 PAs

 

Beni

AA (at age 21) .872 in 263 PAs

 

With JBJ's superior defense, even at age 21, I don't see a big difference in overall skill level and "ML readiness" between the two at age 21-22.

 

it is also why minor league stats are um ... dangerous to use in this sort of manner

 

Benintendi had a .515 SLG with a 11.9% K rate

Bradley in AA had a .437 SLG with a 18.1% K rate

 

Benintendi was making more frequent harder contact - Bradley was excellent in AA ... but had holes in his swing non-big leaguers were getting to regularly.

Edited December 8, 2017 by sk7326

[moonslav59]

it is also why minor league stats are um ... dangerous to use in this sort of manner

 

It's rare that a player who does poorly in the minors does well in the majors- not so rare for a player that does well in the minors but poorly in MLB.

[moonslav59]

it is also why minor league stats are um ... dangerous to use in this sort of manner

 

Benintendi had a .515 SLG with a 11.9% K rate

Bradley in AA had a .437 SLG with a 18.1% K rate

 

Benintendi was making more frequent harder contact - Bradley was excellent in AA ... but had holes in his swing non-big leaguers were getting to regularly.

 

JBJ was an awesome defender very early.

 

My point was that the "not close" in AA statement was incorrect.

[Larry Cook]

it is also why minor league stats are um ... dangerous to use in this sort of manner

 

Benintendi had a .515 SLG with a 11.9% K rate

Bradley in AA had a .437 SLG with a 18.1% K rate

 

Benintendi was making more frequent harder contact - Bradley was excellent in AA ... but had holes in his swing non-big leaguers were getting to regularly.

 

Bradley missed a lot of his final year in college after getting hit on the wrist by a pitch.

 

His hole in his swing was a fear of any inside pitches. It took him until last year to finally get over that fear.

 

2017 appeared to be a return of that fear.

[moonslav59]

Big shoe drops (lol)...

 

Chris Iannetta signs with the Rockies for $8.5M

[moonslav59]

Bradley missed a lot of his final year in college after getting hit on the wrist by a pitch.

 

His hole in his swing was a fear of any inside pitches. It took him until last year to finally get over that fear.

 

2017 appeared to be a return of that fear.

 

I doubt that's the reason or a major reason. Who knows. He's always been streaky.

[Larry Cook]

I doubt that's the reason or a major reason. Who knows. He's always been streaky.

 

He’s always been steaky because he gets pitched inside until he starts hitting inside pitches.

[Larry Cook]

Big shoe drops (lol)...

 

Chris Iannetta signs with the Rockies for $8.5M

 

Is this his second time with them?

[moonslav59]

Is this his second time with them?

 

Yes, his first 6 seasons were with Colorado.

[Kimmi]

Is it just the Pedey incident?

 

No, there have been other similar incidents. He comes across to me as being a punk.

[mvp 78]

JBJ

AA (at age 22) .809 in 271 PAs

AAA (at age 23) .849 in 374 PAs

 

Beni

AA (at age 21) .872 in 263 PAs

 

With JBJ's superior defense, even at age 21, I don't see a big difference in overall skill level and "ML readiness" between the two at age 21-22.

 

A year older and worse numbers.

[mvp 78]

JBJ was an awesome defender very early.

 

My point was that the "not close" in AA statement was incorrect.

 

Wrong.

[moonslav59]

A year older and worse numbers.

 

.872 to .809 is close enough to say it's "pretty close", then when you add the defense, it's pretty even.

 

The age thing shouldn't mean much since you said to compare the AA numbers. It also neglects his AAA numbers the next year, which were better.

 

Again, in the context of the debate over who was ML ready vs rushed, I can't see how the numbers showed a younger player with no AAA numbers was ready,

but a 2 years older player with very good AAA numbers and better defense wasn't.

 

Only in hindsight-looking at the early MLb results- can anyone claim JBJ was not ready while Beni was ready.

 

Would calling up a 30 year minor leaguer who sucked the first year or two in the bigs and then did great be labeled as "rushed" using this criteria?

[Larry Cook]

Wrong.

 

Who do you think no will trade for pedroia?

[SCM33]

If the Sox fail to acquire Martinez, or Abreu....is this offseason a bust?

 

We are not on the list of teams that Stanton would approve a trade to, so he is out of the running.

 

I am not sure I want them to make a move, just to make a move. I'd like to have Stanton or Abreu, but at what cost?.....and are JD Martinez and Hosmer really worth it, or are they the best of a bad group of FA's?

[jacksonianmarch]

If the Sox fail to acquire Martinez, or Abreu....is this offseason a bust?

 

We are not on the list of teams that Stanton would approve a trade to, so he is out of the running.

 

I am not sure I want them to make a move, just to make a move. I'd like to have Stanton or Abreu, but at what cost.....and are JD Martinez and Hosmer really worth it, or are they the best of a bad group of FA's?

 

Look at Martinez' numbers before poo-pooing him. He has been a monster for awhile now and in Fenway he'd be a beast. I know you are willing to rest on your laurels because the sox won the division, but I don't think anyone picks the sox in the ALE as constituted right now

[moonslav59]

JD would certainly give us a big boost.

 

The years and costs may hurt us later, when we need to try and keep or replace some of our key players, but when the farm is barren, how else can we acquire a big time clean-up hitter.

[S5Dewey]

Machado had priors. That just sealed the deal.

 

See? We don't disagree on everything.

[notin]

JD would certainly give us a big boost.

 

The years and costs may hurt us later, when we need to try and keep or replace some of our key players, but when the farm is barren, how else can we acquire a big time clean-up hitter.

 

Another available name no one mentions is Andrew McCutchen...