2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[mvp 78]

All this is quite reasonable. But the change seems to be a rather abrupt one, and if I'm one of the players I might be a little suspicious about it all.

 

If the players as a collective get really unhappy with the situation there's going to be trouble, and everyone will lose, like we did in 1994. We'll have lots of time to debate who's right and who's wrong when another season gets cancelled.

 

If the season gets cancelled, this board becomes a Brockton Rox messageboard. Sorry, that's the rules.

[Spudboy]

A Healthy Buch is an oxymoron.

 

 

lulz.

[Spudboy]

I've got to chime in here because I'm really bored I guess. I'm hoping that Bucholtz never again appears in a Sox uniform. He had his day and his opportunity. Move on and far away. Don't care how cheap or even how much of a low risk he might seem to be. Run away.

 

Amen Dude.

[cp176]

Owners have seen ever spiraling tv contracts and ticket prices. Why shouldn't players expect a piece of the pie?

 

I think that the clear majority of players would say that they are pretty well compensated. How much of the pie should they be entitled to? I don't really even care but if I am the owner I would like to have a clear say as to how much I am going to pay the people working for me. Maybe owning a business like this is tougher than we think. Those players are very well paid employees. If the player's compensation for the work they do - they do not own the business- is adequate which I think it is, that is the way it goes. Maybe some day they can all own the business but for the time being they are very well paid pampered worker bees. I have no sympathy for either side. Basically i think that is ridiculous how important entertainment has become to us. f*** them all!!!

[harmony]

From Thursday's column by FanRag columnist Jon Heyman:

Boston needs a hitter, and its clear No. 1 target remains J.D. Martinez. The team and the free agent remain in a stare down/stalemate, with the team offering far less than the asking price, which is believed to have been in the $200 million range. Word from club sources is that GM Dave Dombrowski isn’t going any higher, which is what led to the stare down/stalemate.

https://www.fanragsports.com/inside-baseball-mlb-notes-betts-arb-win-could-affect-others/

[Bellhorn04]

Wouldn't it be amusing if something big happens tomorrow on Groundhog Day?

[cp176]

From Thursday's column by FanRag columnist Jon Heyman:

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/inside-baseball-mlb-notes-betts-arb-win-could-affect-others/

 

As most of us have thought and said all along - Boston and Arizona - Good for DD - I hope that he continues to hold the line. He is not worth what he thinks he is. If Arizona can pay him, good for them. My guess is that he loses a lot of money if he does not sign with Boston. Screw him and the Arizona pony he rode in on.

[Kimmi]

I agree with the boring and agonizing part but can't side with the players who have been a part of the structuring of the system as it stands. Perhaps they envisioned an every spiraling salary structure, with pay way out of reason, particularly when risk is accounted for. We as fans have seen the risk part a lot of late with Price not able to meet expectations, Ramerez also below expectations based upon money paid and other ridiculous contracts. No doubt other teams feel the same way and are reconsidering the FA market and look for more value, while the player agents are still thinking contract length and salary spiral. There doesn't have to be any collusion on the part of the owners, just a consistent understanding of the dynamicss of risk and value.

 

Solid post oldtimer.

[Kimmi]

All this is quite reasonable. But the change seems to be a rather abrupt one, and if I'm one of the players I might be a little suspicious about it all.

 

If the players as a collective get really unhappy with the situation there's going to be trouble, and everyone will lose, like we did in 1994. We'll have lots of time to debate who's right and who's wrong when another season gets cancelled.

 

We don't know whether it's an actual 'change' though, or just a perfect storm of things coming together to make this offseason so slow.

 

Also, it's not like the offers out there are unreasonable. The Red Sox offer to JD is certainly very fair. Supposedly, Hosmer has 2 seven year offers (more than reasonable for the player) but he is holding out for 8 or more years. That sounds more like a problem with the players, not the owners.

[Natick to NC]

A healthy Buch is greater than the corpse of Porkchop.

[Kimmi]

All this is quite reasonable. But the change seems to be a rather abrupt one, and if I'm one of the players I might be a little suspicious about it all.

 

If the players as a collective get really unhappy with the situation there's going to be trouble, and everyone will lose, like we did in 1994. We'll have lots of time to debate who's right and who's wrong when another season gets cancelled.

 

And anyway, the players can't strike until the current CBA expires, which is 2021, I believe. We'll be in the cliff years by then, so no big loss.

[Kimmi]

From Thursday's column by FanRag columnist Jon Heyman:

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/inside-baseball-mlb-notes-betts-arb-win-could-affect-others/

 

And once again, why should he go higher and bid against himself?

[Kimmi]

Wouldn't it be amusing if something big happens tomorrow on Groundhog Day?

 

Phil is not on my good list. He better make amends tomorrow!

[Kimmi]

As most of us have thought and said all along - Boston and Arizona - Good for DD - I hope that he continues to hold the line. He is not worth what he thinks he is. If Arizona can pay him, good for them. My guess is that he loses a lot of money if he does not sign with Boston. Screw him and the Arizona pony he rode in on.

 

Stay strong Dave, stay strong!

[oldtimer]

I think that the clear majority of players would say that they are pretty well compensated. How much of the pie should they be entitled to? I don't really even care but if I am the owner I would like to have a clear say as to how much I am going to pay the people working for me. Maybe owning a business like this is tougher than we think. Those players are very well paid employees. If the player's compensation for the work they do - they do not own the business- is adequate which I think it is, that is the way it goes. Maybe some day they can all own the business but for the time being they are very well paid pampered worker bees. I have no sympathy for either side. Basically i think that is ridiculous how important entertainment has become to us. f*** them all!!!

 

Might they think of the fans and lower ticket prices?

[harmony]

I think that the clear majority of players would say that they are pretty well compensated. How much of the pie should they be entitled to? I don't really even care but if I am the owner I would like to have a clear say as to how much I am going to pay the people working for me. Maybe owning a business like this is tougher than we think. Those players are very well paid employees. If the player's compensation for the work they do - they do not own the business- is adequate which I think it is, that is the way it goes. Maybe some day they can all own the business but for the time being they are very well paid pampered worker bees. I have no sympathy for either side. Basically i think that is ridiculous how important entertainment has become to us. f*** them all!!!

Unlike most business owners, MLB owners can prevent 90 percent of their player employees from leaving to work for a competitor. In doing so, the owners suppress the player wages (which is one reason why Mookie Betts earned roughly $2 million the last three years while producing what FanGraphs determined to be worth $145.3 million on the free agent market).

 

In other industries, businesses fail on a regular basis. No MLB team is in danger of going out of business. If the Oakland Athletics or Tampa Bay Rays went on the market tomorrow, buyers would line up.

 

I agree that our society has devoted too many resources to entertainment at the expense of more pressing needs.

[jacksonianmarch]

The big contracts drag the market upward. When the cost to get a #1 increases by $5 mil, the cost to get a #4 would rise maybe $1-2 mil per year.

[cp176]

Unlike most business owners, MLB owners can prevent 90 percent of their player employees from leaving to work for a competitor. In doing so, the owners suppress the player wages (which is one reason why Mookie Betts earned roughly $2 million the last three years while producing what FanGraphs determined to be worth $145.3 million on the free agent market).

 

In other industries, businesses fail on a regular basis. No MLB team is in danger of going out of business. If the Oakland Athletics or Tampa Bay Rays went on the market tomorrow, buyers would line up.

 

I agree that our society has devoted too many resources to entertainment at the expense of more pressing needs.

 

You are making a great case for the poor and downtrodden worker bees who signed those stinking contracts. Poor poor Mookie- I feel so damn sorry for these guys. Wonder when we will start seeing actively protest. it shut isn't right. They didn't really mean to sign those ridiculous contracts.

[cp176]

Might they think of the fans and lower ticket prices?

 

 

Why? What incentive do they have to do that? People are still finding a way to pay the price. I find it quite ironic that people always complain about who can't attend these games but the seats are still filled for the most part.

[moonslav59]

Why? What incentive do they have to do that? People are still finding a way to pay the price. I find it quite ironic that people always complain about who can't attend these games but the seats are still filled for the most part.

 

Yes, and selling half your tickets at $150 a ticket vs all your tickets at $25 a ticket is just plain good business, especially, kif those not going to the game then pay for NESN to watch it at home.

[harmony]

You are making a great case for the poor and downtrodden worker bees who signed those stinking contracts. Poor poor Mookie- I feel so damn sorry for these guys. Wonder when we will start seeing actively protest. it shut isn't right. They didn't really mean to sign those ridiculous contracts.

Should the typical American worker bee feel downtrodden despite earning exponentially higher wages than most of the world's population?

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17512040

 

It's all relative.

[oldtimer]

Why? What incentive do they have to do that? People are still finding a way to pay the price. I find it quite ironic that people always complain about who can't attend these games but the seats are still filled for the most part.

 

One day the whole system will come crashing down. Until then, a few people will be paid a fortune and whine about how they need more.

[harmony]

ESPN columnist David Schoenfield on Thursday identified each team's "biggest remaining hole" and solution:

Boston Red Sox

Hole: Power bat

 

Targets: J.D. Martinez

 

This still feels like an inevitable match, but the longer Martinez stays out there, the less likely he ends up in Boston.

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/85233/the-biggest-remaining-hole-and-a-solution-for-almost-all-30-teams

[Bellhorn04]

We don't know whether it's an actual 'change' though, or just a perfect storm of things coming together to make this offseason so slow.

 

Also, it's not like the offers out there are unreasonable. The Red Sox offer to JD is certainly very fair. Supposedly, Hosmer has 2 seven year offers (more than reasonable for the player) but he is holding out for 8 or more years. That sounds more like a problem with the players, not the owners.

 

If Hosmer has 7 year offers and is holding out for 8 he and Boras are being foolish.

[Bellhorn04]

ESPN columnist David Schoenfield on Thursday identified each team's "biggest remaining hole" and solution:

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/85233/the-biggest-remaining-hole-and-a-solution-for-almost-all-30-teams

 

It would have been nice if he explained the last part, as in what other team might sign Martinez.

[oldtimer]

The Red Sox Front office has been writing the sequel to Money Ball, the book that laid out the blueprint for how small market teams could stay competitive by trading away players were had reached maximum value for good prospects and by identifying good prospects through Cybermetrics.

 

The sequel is to be called Money Bull, the book that shows the way to spend money unwisely on long term contracts for players who had reached their prime and or are unproven at the ml level and hamstringing the organization. Precursoor reviews of this book may indeed be impacting the FA market.The chapters are:

 

1. Very Fat Contracts

2. Dread those dreadlocks

3. Craig Lists

4. Cuban defective

5. The Price is wrong

 

and thee outline of a new chapter is coming in:

 

6. Just Don't give More

[cp176]

The Red Sox Front office has been writing the sequel to Money Ball, the book that laid out the blueprint for how small market teams could stay competitive by trading away players were had reached maximum value for good prospects and by identifying good prospects through Cybermetrics.

 

The sequel is to be called Money Bull, the book that shows the way to spend money unwisely on long term contracts for players who had reached their prime and or are unproven at the ml level and hamstringing the organization. Precursoor reviews of this book may indeed be impacting the FA market.The chapters are:

 

1. Very Fat Contracts

2. Dread those dreadlocks

3. Craig Lists

4. Cuban defective

5. The Price is wrong

 

and thee outline of a new chapter is coming in:

 

6. Just Don't give More

 

I like this

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox Front office has been writing the sequel to Money Ball, the book that laid out the blueprint for how small market teams could stay competitive by trading away players were had reached maximum value for good prospects and by identifying good prospects through Cybermetrics.

 

The sequel is to be called Money Bull, the book that shows the way to spend money unwisely on long term contracts for players who had reached their prime and or are unproven at the ml level and hamstringing the organization. Precursoor reviews of this book may indeed be impacting the FA market.The chapters are:

 

1. Very Fat Contracts

2. Dread those dreadlocks

3. Craig Lists

4. Cuban defective

5. The Price is wrong

 

and thee outline of a new chapter is coming in:

 

6. Just Don't give More

 

Very nice! I may have to add something to this myself.

[harmony]

The Red Sox Front office has been writing the sequel to Money Ball, the book that laid out the blueprint for how small market teams could stay competitive by trading away players were had reached maximum value for good prospects and by identifying good prospects through Cybermetrics.

 

The sequel is to be called Money Bull, the book that shows the way to spend money unwisely on long term contracts for players who had reached their prime and or are unproven at the ml level and hamstringing the organization. Precursoor reviews of this book may indeed be impacting the FA market.The chapters are:

 

1. Very Fat Contracts

2. Dread those dreadlocks

3. Craig Lists

4. Cuban defective

5. The Price is wrong

 

and thee outline of a new chapter is coming in:

 

6. Just Don't give More

Well done!

[mvp 78]

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/02/02/players-are-getting-pretty-dang-upset-about-the-lack-of-free-agent-signings/

 

Earlier this week, in conference calls that union officials held with player representatives, players asked about the viability of collectively refusing to show up at spring training until Feb. 24, the mandatory reporting date, according to sources. It was a significant step — signed players standing up for unsigned players — but the union informed the players that an organized action of that sort would constitute an unlawful strike in violation of the CBA, and the players dropped the idea, sources said.

 

Seems like the players aren't actually aware of what the union contract says. Maybe they'll pay attention and get a better deal from the owners this time?