2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[baseball jones]

What's more, by changing the rules they effectively screwed Castillo even worse than he already was-as far as having a chance to play major league ball, I mean.

 

how the union let this happen is beyond me,theres already things in place to handle this.

[harmony]

he's a perfect example of whats wrong with players contracts and agents.both reached their goal and were over paid.the teams and the fans received nothing for all of it.

Those are the risks management takes after paying a player such as Mookie Betts the league minimum for two years and then a less-than-market salary for four years (for most players it's three years and three years).

 

What percentage of players who sign professional contracts make it to the Major Leagues? What percentage of players who make it to the Major Leagues make it to the six years of MLB service required for free agency?

 

The rare free agent cashes in on a system that suppresses salaries for the vast, vast majority of valuable players. It's a system agreed upon by management and the players union.

Edited January 14, 2018 by harmony

[baseball jones]

I get it. Many opposing fans despised Pedro Martinez for being the best at his job (although I've always held Martinez in the highest regard).

 

what was once a needed solution (agents) has now become the biggest part of the problem.a new solution is needed

 

i dont have one at the moment but i still see the problem

[baseball jones]

Those are the risks management takes after paying a player such as Mookie Betts the league minimum for two years and then a less-than-market salary for four years (for most players it's three years and three years).

 

What percentage of players who sign professional contracts make it to the Major Leagues? What percentage of players who make it to the Major Leagues make it to the six years of MLB service required for free agency?

 

The rare free agent cashes in on a system that suppresses salaries for the vast, vast majority of players. It's a system agreed upon by management and the players union.

 

i agree and major changes need to take place.i dont think boras would be for that though

[dgalehouse]

No matter how many times we hear that Major League Baseball is a business , we still tend to forget it at times. But it really is a business , and a lucrative one at that. And everybody wants in on the money. Boras is not the devil. He is just one of the more successful operatives in the business. John Henry is a billionaire. More power to him as well. Fans get upset and blame Boras if we don't get the player we want at the price we want to pay. As fans ,we keep forgetting that it is a business to the owners , players and agents . They may fight over the money. We are not in on the profits. We pay the freight for it all. That is how it is. Boras is just doing his job. Baseball is a business. A part of the larger entertainment industry. There are many agents involved in the industry. They work for their clients , not for us.We choose to buy the product. We don't have to , but we do.

[Bellhorn04]

No matter how many times we hear that Major League Baseball is a business , we still tend to forget it at times. But it really is a business , and a lucrative one at that. And everybody wants in on the money. Boras is not the devil. He is just one of the more successful operatives in the business. John Henry is a billionaire. More power to him as well. Fans get upset and blame Boras if we don't get the player we want at the price we want to pay. As fans ,we keep forgetting that it is a business to the owners , players and agents . They may fight over the money. We are not in on the profits. We pay the freight for it all. That is how it is. Boras is just doing his job. Baseball is a business. A part of the larger entertainment industry. There are many agents involved in the industry. They work for their clients , not for us.We choose to buy the product. We don't have to , but we do.

 

No, Boras isn't the devil. Players hire him because he has a track record of getting the biggest contracts, that's no mystery. He just irks me with some of his public pronouncements, like the one about the Marlins being a 'pawn shop', and his silly statements like J D Martinez being the 'King Kong of Slug.' He's just one of those people I'd like to see taken down a peg.

[harmony]

No, Boras isn't the devil. Players hire him because he has a track record of getting the biggest contracts, that's no mystery. He just irks me with some of his public pronouncements, like the one about the Marlins being a 'pawn shop', and his silly statements like J D Martinez being the 'King Kong of Slug.' He's just one of those people I'd like to see taken down a peg.

What about the owners whose revenues have outpaced player salaries over the past decade?

[cp176]

What about the owners whose revenues have outpaced player salaries over the past decade?

 

In what professional sport would this not be true? If you own the team, and manage it correctly, aren't you supposed to make money? It would be another story altogether if the players were not compensated fairly but I think that they are.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox have "continued to thrive" financially. Does that raise ethical issues?

 

Was it ethical for the Red Sox to stash the contracts of Rusney Castillo and Allen Craig off the 40-man roster in order to avoid luxury tax consequences? The moves were legal under the Collective Bargaining Agreement at the time but would not be permitted under the revised CBA.

 

Do the Red Sox have any ethical obligation to the 30-year-old Castillo, who is effectively barred from pursuing his career at the MLB level?

No. If he was good enough to play at the ML level for his salary, someone would have made a deal for him. He could always ask to be released from his contract if he wanted to pursue a major league job, and I am sure that the Red Sox would gladly accommodate him. I don’t see that happening.

[harmony]

In what professional sport would this not be true? If you own the team, and manage it correctly, aren't you supposed to make money? It would be another story altogether if the players were not compensated fairly but I think that they are.

Should the owners get richer at a faster pace than the players whom the public pays to watch?

 

Over the past decade MLB revenues have risen 67 percent while the average salary has increased 52 percent, according to this Sports Illustrated article:

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/01/11/free-agency-hot-stove-slow-pace

 

Should owners get an increasingly larger slice of the revenue pie?

Edited January 14, 2018 by harmony

[a700hitter]

Should the owners get richer at a faster pace than the players whom the public pays to watch?

Richer at a faster pace? Owners start off as rich. They have to have a return on their investment or they invest in something else. The players and their contracts are assets of the organization. The players are employees who get a wage. They are not investing capital in the venture.

[cp176]

Should the owners get richer at a faster pace than the players whom the public pays to watch?

 

Should I think is the key word here for me. I don't think that many of us really understand all of the ins and outs of what it takes to run a ml franchise. I think that the short answer is yes - that is the way it works in our society. Otherwise why would anyone want to own? Business owners in general I don't think own simply for the betterment of society.

[harmony]

Richer at a faster pace? Owners start off as rich. They have to have a return on their investment or they invest in something else. The players and their contracts are assets of the organization. The players are employees who get a wage. They are not investing capital in the venture.

MLB players are essential cogs in the lucrative revenue stream. Baseball knows what happens to revenues when substitute players take the place of striking (or locked-out) union members.

 

I would be concerned if player salaries were outpacing MLB revenues. Conversely the growth of MLB revenues should not be outpacing the growth of player salaries.

[harmony]

Should I think is the key word here for me. I don't think that many of us really understand all of the ins and outs of what it takes to run a ml franchise. I think that the short answer is yes - that is the way it works in our society. Otherwise why would anyone want to own? Business owners in general I don't think own simply for the betterment of society.

I suspect players don't play for the betterment of society.

[baseball jones]

MLB players are essential cogs in the lucrative revenue stream. Baseball knows what happens to revenues when substitute players take the place of striking (or locked-out) union members.

 

I would be concerned if player salaries were outpacing MLB revenues. Conversely the growth of MLB revenues should not be outpacing the growth of player salaries.

where in the world does that ever happen?

[Bellhorn04]

Should the owners get richer at a faster pace than the players whom the public pays to watch?

 

Over the past decade MLB revenues have risen 67 percent while the average salary has increased 52 percent, according to this Sports Illustrated article:

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/01/11/free-agency-hot-stove-slow-pace

 

Should owners get an increasingly larger slice of the revenue pie?

 

No, I don't think owners should keep getting a larger slice of the pie.

 

Personally I don't see how revenue can continue to increase as it has. I think a correction is coming.

[moonslav59]

What's more, by changing the rules they effectively screwed Castillo even worse than he already was-as far as having a chance to play major league ball, I mean.

 

Yes, exactly. Had they grandfathered Castillo, maybe he'd get a quick look at some point.

[jacksonianmarch]

No, I don't think owners should keep getting a larger slice of the pie.

 

Personally I don't see how revenue can continue to increase as it has. I think a correction is coming.

 

I doubt you are right. As long as the economy booms, the teams will make a killing. Heck, teams made a killing even during the 08 recession. Also, it isn't good for a business for the profits to stagnate while the employees eat all the profits. That stifles innovation

[moonslav59]

Those are the risks management takes after paying a player such as Mookie Betts the league minimum for two years and then a less-than-market salary for four years (for most players it's three years and three years).

 

What percentage of players who sign professional contracts make it to the Major Leagues? What percentage of players who make it to the Major Leagues make it to the six years of MLB service required for free agency?

 

The rare free agent cashes in on a system that suppresses salaries for the vast, vast majority of valuable players. It's a system agreed upon by management and the players union.

 

It's hard for the union to bargain for more money for players before they reach free agency without giving up some of the massive deals some free agents get. You'd think they'd want a system where everyone gets paid more. In most union settings, the unions try to make things best for the senior most menbers with the idea that everyone will reach that point at some time, but only a select few make the mega bucks in MLB.

[Bellhorn04]

I doubt you are right. As long as the economy booms, the teams will make a killing. Heck, teams made a killing even during the 08 recession. Also, it isn't good for a business for the profits to stagnate while the employees eat all the profits. That stifles innovation

 

Specifically how can revenue continue to increase? Is attendance increasing? Are cable TV subscriptions increasing?

[moonslav59]

Should the owners get richer at a faster pace than the players whom the public pays to watch?

 

Over the past decade MLB revenues have risen 67 percent while the average salary has increased 52 percent, according to this Sports Illustrated article:

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/01/11/free-agency-hot-stove-slow-pace

 

Should owners get an increasingly larger slice of the revenue pie?

 

I'm sure the average everyday worker would love to see their share go up at just 17% less than the big wigs' share.

[moonslav59]

I doubt you are right. As long as the economy booms, the teams will make a killing. Heck, teams made a killing even during the 08 recession. Also, it isn't good for a business for the profits to stagnate while the employees eat all the profits. That stifles innovation

 

The biggest "killing" comes when the owner sells his team, That is something that is often lost when viewing how the money is split up.

[baseball jones]

I doubt you are right. As long as the economy booms, the teams will make a killing. Heck, teams made a killing even during the 08 recession. Also, it isn't good for a business for the profits to stagnate while the employees eat all the profits. That stifles innovation

 

our ecomony is booming?a lot of people cant afford to watch games at home never mind going to a game

[Nick]

The biggest "killing" comes when the owner sells his team, That is something that is often lost when viewing how the money is split up.

 

Franchise value in baseball is based solely on future cash flow. CBA is a major part of cash flow. The last one was a winner for the owners.

[jacksonianmarch]

our ecomony is booming?a lot of people cant afford to watch games at home never mind going to a game

 

That may be the case for some, but the money is still flowing in like water from the middle and upper classes

[Bellhorn04]

MLB total attendance has been gradually decreasing since 2007.

 

2007 total attendance 79.5 million

2017 total attendance 72.7 million

[baseball jones]

That may be the case for some, but the money is still flowing in like water from the middle and upper classes

 

the blue collar are the most loyal fans out there.without them this wouldnt even exist nor will it continue to exist with out them in my opinion.

[cp176]

The biggest "killing" comes when the owner sells his team, That is something that is often lost when viewing how the money is split up.

 

I have said this many times here. Think about the profit JH makes if and when he sells.

[cp176]

I suspect players don't play for the betterment of society.

 

and i would also add that they are fairly rich - pretty relative I guess but ml salaries seem pretty good to me.

[dgalehouse]

The whole thing is crazy. Billionaire owners . Millionaire players. Millionaire commissioners. Revenue sharing. Luxury taxes . Lawyers , agents , etc. How does the average person relate to all of this ? We love the game and pull for our team. Most of us have played the game at some level. But how can we relate to the business side of it all ? Why do we put up with the outrageous ticket prices , parking , concessions , cable and dish fees , etc. ? It is actually funny to hear fans debating that so and so is worth 20 million a year for five years , but certainly not 21 million a year for six years. Too much.