2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[moonslav59]

But do we know when Morrison or Moose are close to signing elsewhere?

 

I'm not sure, but DD could tell their agents that we are waiting on JD, but consider your client plan B. We'd like you to wait, if you can, or at least give us a heads up, when your client is close to accepting a contract elsewhere and we may better the offer. Maybe that strategy is not realistic, but if I was Morrison, I'd wait, unless the other team is saying "now or never."

 

IMO JD is the best fit for the Sox and the Sox may be the best "fit" for him when the money is considered. Frankly, I'm tired of being held hostage to someone who's holding out for another year on his contract while being offered >$100MM. In fact, the longer he drags this out the less sure I am that I want him on the team anyway.

 

He's not really "the best fit", since we already have a DH making $22M and three young accomplished OF'ers.

 

He's only a "fit" in the sense that we need a clean-up hitter, and we have the ability to pay him more than any other apparent bidders.

 

We should not be held hostage. If anything, he should be crawling to us. There's no way the Jays should outbid us.

 

 

If I'm DD I contact Bora$$ this morning and make it clear that '"5/current offer" is all the Sox are going to do and JD has 48 hours to make up his mind. And if he opts not to, well, I hope he enjoys not contending for a division championship and not contending for a ring.'

 

I'm not sure we are at that point of urgency. I think, as fans, we are getting frustrated, but I'd hate to miss out on getting JD at an acceptable rate, that may have ended up being more than he ends up getting, just because he chose not to rush into a deal we demanded he take or else.

 

If we view the time is getting close, where we may lose our secondary options, then yes, set a time limit and be prepared to move on.

 

[moonslav59]

Trading for Kimbrel, Pomeranz and Sale took us out of the sweepstakes for Cole....

 

With what the Astros gave up, we could have outbid them had we wanted to, without sacrificing our future or opening a major hole on our current 25 man roster. A deal like ERod, Hembree and Beeks looks better, to me. Cole replaces ERod/Wright as our #5 starter, and we have several RP'ers near the same quality as Hembree, but who have options remaining.

[harmony]

I would argue that Scott Boras has indeed made some unprofessional comments, the most recent of which was a public statement comparing the Miami Marlins to a 'pawn shop' - exactly the type of comment you normally read on a message board.

 

Who knows what he says in private?

Here is a more complete story about Scott Boras and his "pawn shop" statement:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/scott-boras-marlins-turned-pawn-shop/story?id=51770998

 

When was the last time the media disseminated a statement directly attributed to Scott Boras?

 

I suspect Boras is busy negotiating the best deals for his clients (just as front offices are negotiating the best deals for their teams).

[S5Dewey]

Agents and MLB front offices have professionals who understand each other's positions. The sides avoid poisoning the well, such as labeling the adversary "Bora$$" or telling him "I hope he enjoys not contending for a division championship and not contending for a ring."*

 

We leave that too unprofessional fans.

 

 

Yeah. We all know that lawyers are much to professional to do anything like that.

 

I don't know if you read your own links or not but...

 

"LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. -- Agent Scott Boras took a shot at the Miami Marlins' new ownership Wednesday, telling reporters at the MLB winter meetings that 'we've seen one of our major league jewelry stores become a pawn shop.''

 

Yeah. That's professional.

Edited January 14, 2018 by S5Dewey

[baseball jones]

Agents and MLB front offices have professionals who understand each other's positions. The sides avoid poisoning the well, such as labeling the adversary "Bora$$" or telling him "I hope he enjoys not contending for a division championship and not contending for a ring."*

 

We leave that to unprofessional fans.

 

* especially from a club, with three first-place finishes and three last-place finishes in the last six years, that is barely projected among in the top quarter of 2018 teams:

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=3

 

did hosmer sign his 7/147 deal yet?

[a700hitter]

Matt Harvey also severely jeopardized his career (and earning potential) by ignoring a doctor's (and agent's) advice to pitch in the post-season three years ago...

I don’t think it was an overuse issue that has jeopardized Harvey’s career, but rather thoracic outlet syndrome. That has caused him to lose too much feeling to his fingers impairing his ability to control the slider and flattening out the break. His slider was his out pitch. Unless the feeling to his fingers comes back, he is done.

[Bellhorn04]

Here is a more complete story about Scott Boras and his "pawn shop" statement:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/scott-boras-marlins-turned-pawn-shop/story?id=51770998

 

When was the last time the media disseminated a statement directly attributed to Scott Boras?

 

I suspect Boras is busy negotiating the best deals for his clients (just as front offices are negotiating the best deals for their teams).

 

What business is it of Scott Boras how the new Miami Marlins ownership deal with their financial issues?

 

'Pawn shop' is a typical Boras sound bite.

 

He likes the attention.

 

I don't see how you can defend this as professional conduct by a player agent.

 

But you seem to have a 'see no evil' policy when it comes to Boras.

[notin]

I don’t think it was an overuse issue that has jeopardized Harvey’s career, but rather thoracic outlet syndrome. That has caused him to lose too much feeling to his fingers impairing his ability to control the slider and flattening out the break. His slider was his out pitch. Unless the feeling to his fingers comes back, he is done.

 

That year he did try to shut himself down at the advice of his doctor, but he did come back for the post-season. ..

[harmony]

Yeah. We all know that lawyers are much to professional to do anything like that.

 

I don't know if you read your own links or not but...

 

"LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. -- Agent Scott Boras took a shot at the Miami Marlins' new ownership Wednesday, telling reporters at the MLB winter meetings that 'we've seen one of our major league jewelry stores become a pawn shop.''

 

Yeah. That's professional.

I have a great appreciation of an effective metaphor.

 

Others have offered similar sentiments using less colorful language.

 

Scott Boras is probably the most scrutinized player agent in sports:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/2017/09/25/the-worlds-most-powerful-sports-agents-2017/#47f68e811086

 

Teams can refuse to do business with unethical business partners but the Boras Corporation continues to thrive.

[baseball jones]

I have a great appreciation of an effective metaphor.

 

Others have offered similar sentiments using less colorful language.

 

Scott Boras is probably the most scrutinized player agent in sports:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/2017/09/25/the-worlds-most-powerful-sports-agents-2017/#47f68e811086

 

Teams can refuse to do business with unethical business partners but the Boras Corporation continues to thrive.

 

so does terrorism whats your point?

[harmony]

so does terrorism whats your point?

I have a great appreciation of an effective analogy.

 

That's not one.

 

A player, through his agent, can refuse to deal with any team just as any team can decline to pursue any player. The (limited) free market, at least theoretically, should arrive at appropriate contracts.

[Bellhorn04]

so does terrorism whats your point?

 

Organized crime is another example of an unethical operation that 'continues to thrive'.

 

Your point is well taken - 'continuing to thrive' doesn't mean anything as far as ethics are concerned, so why would someone even try to imply that it does?

[baseball jones]

I have a great appreciation of an effective analogy.

 

That's not one.

 

A player, through his agent, can refuse to deal with any team just as any team can decline to pursue any player. The (limited) free market, at least theoretically, should arrive at appropriate contracts.

 

so lies,threats and collusion are "theoretically appropriate" to you?

[harmony]

Organized crime is another example of an unethical operation that 'continues to thrive'.

 

Your point is well taken - 'continuing to thrive' doesn't mean anything as far as ethics are concerned, so why would someone even try to imply that it does?

The Red Sox have "continued to thrive" financially. Does that raise ethical issues?

 

Was it ethical for the Red Sox to stash the contracts of Rusney Castillo and Allen Craig off the 40-man roster in order to avoid luxury tax consequences? The moves were legal under the Collective Bargaining Agreement at the time but would not be permitted under the revised CBA.

 

Do the Red Sox have any ethical obligation to the 30-year-old Castillo, who is effectively barred from pursuing his career at the MLB level?

[baseball jones]

Organized crime is another example of an unethical operation that 'continues to thrive'.

 

Your point is well taken - 'continuing to thrive' doesn't mean anything as far as ethics are concerned, so why would someone even try to imply that it does?

 

i cant stand boras,this guy sue's his own clients who leave his firm after thier contracts are up.if they sign a deal without him,after their deals run out with his firm,he sues them for 5%.he needs to be removed from the gene pool

[harmony]

so lies,threats and collusion are "theoretically appropriate" to you?

You're probably being too harsh on management.

[baseball jones]

The Red Sox have "continued to thrive" financially. Does that raise ethical issues?

 

Was it ethical for the Red Sox to stash the contracts of Rusney Castillo and Allen Craig off the 40-man roster in order to avoid luxury tax consequences? The moves were legal under the Collective Bargaining Agreement at the time but would not be permitted under the revised CBA.

 

Do the Red Sox have any ethical obligation to the 30-year-old Castillo, who is effectively barred from pursuing his career at the MLB level?

 

you mean a guy who never lived up to his contract?ethically speaking he owes the red sox and fans.he's getting paid isnt he?

[harmony]

i cant stand boras,this guy sue's his own clients who leave his firm after thier contracts are up.if they sign a deal without him,after their deals run out with his firm,he sues them for 5%.he needs to be removed from the gene pool

Players and their agents enter contracts for the representation. Either side can sue for breach of contract.

 

Scott Boras lost his grievance against Carlos Beltran even though Beltran hired a different agent four months before the expiration of his contract with Boras.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2014/03/26/scott-boras-grievance-carlos-beltran-robinson-cano-switching-agents/6934915/

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox have "continued to thrive" financially. Does that raise ethical issues?

 

Was it ethical for the Red Sox to stash the contracts of Rusney Castillo and Allen Craig off the 40-man roster in order to avoid luxury tax consequences? The moves were legal under the Collective Bargaining Agreement at the time but would not be permitted under the revised CBA.

 

Do the Red Sox have any ethical obligation to the 30-year-old Castillo, who is effectively barred from pursuing his career at the MLB level?

 

Wow, nice redirection attempt.

 

The Red Sox are continuing to pay Mr. Castillo, as far as I know.

 

What happened with him was unfortunate, but it was a result of the vagaries of the rules as they were.

 

Do you really think the Red Sox wouldn't prefer for Castillo to be giving them some production at the major league level in return for their 72.7 million dollars?

 

You are really going off the rails with some of this stuff.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox have "continued to thrive" financially. Does that raise ethical issues?

 

Was it ethical for the Red Sox to stash the contracts of Rusney Castillo and Allen Craig off the 40-man roster in order to avoid luxury tax consequences? The moves were legal under the Collective Bargaining Agreement at the time but would not be permitted under the revised CBA.

 

Do the Red Sox have any ethical obligation to the 30-year-old Castillo, who is effectively barred from pursuing his career at the MLB level?

 

Their ethical obligation is to pay him millions (while they get nothing from him).

 

Castillo has had a leading role in his current situation. He didn't earn a continued role on the 25 man roster.

 

BTW, Bernie Madoff thrived for decades.

[baseball jones]

You're probably being too harsh on management.

 

funny,but i havent seen any of that this year from management.just offers

[harmony]

you mean a guy who never lived up to his contract?ethically speaking he owes the red sox and fans.he's getting paid isnt he?

It was wrong enough that management and the players union agreed to amend the Collective Bargaining Agreement to forbid the practice.

[harmony]

Wow, nice redirection attempt.

 

The Red Sox are continuing to pay Mr. Castillo, as far as I know.

 

What happened with him was unfortunate, but it was a result of the vagaries of the rules as they were.

 

Do you really think the Red Sox wouldn't prefer for Castillo to be giving them some production at the major league level in return for their 72.7 million dollars?

 

You are really going off the rails with some of this stuff.

The discussion went off the rails when terrorism, organized crime and Bernie Madoff redirected the conversation.

 

I've limited my points to baseball.

[Bellhorn04]

It was wrong enough that management and the players union agreed to amend the Collective Bargaining Agreement to forbid the practice.

 

By first permitting the practice, and then forbidding it, they effectively locked Castillo in no man's land. Maybe they should have made some sort of special provision for his situation.

[Bellhorn04]

The discussion went off the rails when terrorism, organized crime and Bernie Madoff redirected the conversation.

 

Perhaps it also had to do with you saluting Boras's use of the term 'pawn shop' as a nice colorful metaphor.

[moonslav59]

It was wrong enough that management and the players union agreed to amend the Collective Bargaining Agreement to forbid the practice.

 

It was not "wrong". It was legal and not even close to unethical.

 

Castillo and Craig were not good enough to make the 25 man roster. Any team in the league was free to take them off our hands.

 

The fact that the league changed the rules does not mean the Sox did anything wrong. Certainly, the situation is unfortunate in some ways, but bot players got paid what they were supposed to get paid, and neither played well enough to deserve to be on the big club.

 

It's not much different from the Dodgers buying out CC's last year of his contract and cutting him loose. The only difference is the luxury tax implications.

 

Is it ethical for an injured player to continue collecting his salary? Of course, it is. Is it fair to the team? Just as fair as Castillo still getting paid.

[baseball jones]

It was wrong enough that management and the players union agreed to amend the Collective Bargaining Agreement to forbid the practice.

 

he's a perfect example of whats wrong with players contracts and agents.both reached their goal and were over paid.the teams and the fans received nothing for all of it.

[baseball jones]

The discussion went off the rails when terrorism, organized crime and Bernie Madoff redirected the conversation.

 

I've limited my points to baseball.

 

so did we as far as boras is part of it,he uses the same tactics as them to make himself rich.

[Bellhorn04]

The fact that the league changed the rules does not mean the Sox did anything wrong. Certainly, the situation is unfortunate in some ways, but bot players got paid what they were supposed to get paid, and neither played well enough to deserve to be on the big club.

 

What's more, by changing the rules they effectively screwed Castillo even worse than he already was-as far as having a chance to play major league ball, I mean.

[harmony]

I get it. Many opposing fans despised Pedro Martinez for being the best at his job (although I've always held Martinez in the highest regard).