2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[a700hitter]

Yes, I expect he starts for the DWS this summer.

 

Maybe 1.5 years.

So when Ben left he was 3- 4 years away?

[moonslav59]

So when Ben left he was 3- 4 years away?

 

Maybe 2 to2.5. Maybe 3, but that doesn't mean he'd start for the Sox. The White Sox have more openings.

[a700hitter]

It is hypocritical that the same people who talk about the playoffs as crapshoot will criticize DD for consistently getting to the crap table, but not winning the Championship. At the same time the laud praise on Ben for finishing last 3 Times in 4 seasons and winning at the crap table the one time he got there. Sorry, but I will opt for consistent winning baseball that gives us a chance at a championship each October, but that is just me. At least my position doesn’t smack of hypocrisy.

[a700hitter]

Maybe 2 to2.5. Maybe 3, but that doesn't mean he'd start for the Sox. The White Sox have more openings.

if he makes the Rotation mid season 2018, he was 3 seasons away when Ben got fired. I don’t view that as near MLB ready.

[notin]

if he makes the Rotation mid season 2018, he was 3 seasons away when Ben got fired. I don’t view that as near MLB ready.

 

So what's your point? That he wasn't a pitching prospect because he was three years away?

[notin]

It is hypocritical that the same people who talk about the playoffs as crapshoot will criticize DD for consistently getting to the crap table, but not winning the Championship. At the same time the laud praise on Ben for finishing last 3 Times in 4 seasons and winning at the crap table the one time he got there. Sorry, but I will opt for consistent winning baseball that gives us a chance at a championship each October, but that is just me. At least my position doesn’t smack of hypocrisy.

 

Actually my criticism of DD is he does everything short term and doesn't try to get a steady stream of MLB talent in the pipeline like Scherholz did and Cherington was trying to do. Yes he can get you to the table a few times, but it can also have a very poor showing afterwards, like Detroit (worst record in the AL last year with a high payroll built on his contracts).

 

If/when Boston has a similar funk, I trust you will be as disparaging of Dombrowski as you are of Cherington. Otherwise THAT would be hypocritical...

[moonslav59]

if he makes the Rotation mid season 2018, he was 3 seasons away when Ben got fired. I don’t view that as near MLB ready.

 

I see it like this: if he was ML ready he'd have started in 2016. 1 year away would be 2017, 2 years is 2018. Mid year 2018=2.5, but I can see viewing it as 3 years away.

[moonslav59]

Actually my criticism of DD is he does everything short term and doesn't try to get a steady stream of MLB talent in the pipeline like Scherholz did and Cherington was trying to do. Yes he can get you to the table a few times, but it can also have a very poor showing afterwards, like Detroit (worst record in the AL last year with a high payroll built on his contracts).

 

If/when Boston has a similar funk, I trust you will be as disparaging of Dombrowski as you are of Cherington. Otherwise THAT would be hypocritical...

 

At least the 3 big guys he got through trades were 3 year "short term" players not one or two.

[notin]

At least the 3 big guys he got through trades were 3 year "short term" players not one or two.

 

True. But when those 3 years are up after this season, then what?

[moonslav59]

True. But when those 3 years are up after this season, then what?

 

If we don't win a ring this year, then QO benies at most.

[a700hitter]

Actually my criticism of DD is he does everything short term and doesn't try to get a steady stream of MLB talent in the pipeline like Scherholz did and Cherington was trying to do. Yes he can get you to the table a few times, but it can also have a very poor showing afterwards, like Detroit (worst record in the AL last year with a high payroll built on his contracts).

 

If/when Boston has a similar funk, I trust you will be as disparaging of Dombrowski as you are of Cherington. Otherwise THAT would be hypocritical...

You are here pretty regularly, so you should know that I was constantly criticizing DD last season for his terrible construction of the offense. I don't spare any GM's. I am not a fan or defender of any FO. Where have you been? LOL!!

[notin]

You are here pretty regularly, so you should know that I was constantly criticizing DD last season for his terrible construction of the offense. I don't spare any GM's. I am not a fan or defender of any FO. Where have you been? LOL!!

 

I actually never saw you do that. I'm not saying you didn't. But I never saw it.

 

Outside of Moreland, I was probably less critical than you in that case. I thought a big reason the offense took a step back was a plan to promote the pitching. And if Price was healthy, I think that plan would have been more evident. So I didn't fault him so much there...

[a700hitter]

I actually never saw you do that. I'm not saying you didn't. But I never saw it.

 

Outside of Moreland, I was probably less critical than you in that case. I thought a big reason the offense took a step back was a plan to promote the pitching. And if Price was healthy, I think that plan would have been more evident. So I didn't fault him so much there...

I was on DD from Spring Training about the offense. I felt that he really missed the boat and misjudged the market for Encarnacion. It was a gripe that I carried throughout the season.

[moonslav59]

I wonder if DD would have signed EE at $60M/3 had he known that was going to be the cost before he signed Moreland.

 

Did he just misjudge the market cost for EE, or did he just not really want him all that much?

 

Not sure we'll ever know.

[a700hitter]

I wonder if DD would have signed EE at $60M/3 had he known that was going to be the cost before he signed Moreland.

 

Did he just misjudge the market cost for EE, or did he just not really want him all that much?

 

Not sure we'll ever know.

Either way, imo, it was a misjudgment.

[Spudboy]

So what's your point? That he wasn't a pitching prospect because he was three years away?

 

No smart guy. The point is that Moon said something that was clearly wrong and a700 was polite ( initially ) in pointing it out.

 

Kopech was nursing a broken hand or something 3 years ago. In any case Moon was incorrect in saying Kopech was near ready. He has never been that.

[a700hitter]

No smart guy. The point is that Moon said something that was clearly wrong and a700 was polite ( initially ) in pointing it out.

 

Kopech was nursing a broken hand or something 3 years ago. In any case Moon was incorrect in saying Kopech was near ready. He has never been that.

Reading the context usually helps. Also, imagine him warning me about being a hypocrite if I do not criticize DD if he bombs out. Clearly, he just doesn't get me. I thought most people here knew about my universal disdain for FO types. LOL!!

[Spudboy]

Reading the context usually helps. Also, imagine him warning me about being a hypocrite if I do not criticize DD if he bombs out. Clearly, he just doesn't get me. I thought most people here knew about my universal disdain for FO types. LOL!!

 

He was too busy being a defender of Boy Blunder and holding Moon's hand to notice, I guess.

 

If DD f***s up bigly I expect all here to lambast him with harsh words.

[notin]

No smart guy. The point is that Moon said something that was clearly wrong and a700 was polite ( initially ) in pointing it out.

 

Kopech was nursing a broken hand or something 3 years ago. In any case Moon was incorrect in saying Kopech was near ready. He has never been that.

 

Or.... this was a continuation of a700's initial thought that "most of the farm was fertilizer" when it was one of the best in the league.

 

Kopech was definitely a knucklehead. But he and many others were always good prospects and part of a great farm..

[notin]

Reading the context usually helps. Also, imagine him warning me about being a hypocrite if I do not criticize DD if he bombs out. Clearly, he just doesn't get me. I thought most people here knew about my universal disdain for FO types. LOL!!

 

I guess your disdain was lost when you blasted everyone who didn't praise Dombrowski.

[a700hitter]

Or.... this was a continuation of a700's initial thought that "most of the farm was fertilizer" when it was one of the best in the league.

 

Kopech was definitely a knucklehead. But he and many others were always good prospects and part of a great farm..

It was a comment on the absence of MLB ready pitching by Bells that was countered by Moon. The whole exchange was a few posts that would take a couple of minutes to read.

 

As for my attitude about the farm inherited by DD, any farm without pitching prospects, is not that great, and we were light on pitching prospects and none were MLB ready. As for the remainder of the farm, who has made a big impact in the bigs since DD took over other than Benitendi who DD kept? We hear that he raped the farm system, but other than Moncada, who will we really miss?

[a700hitter]

I guess your disdain was lost when you blasted everyone who didn't praise Dombrowski.

Goodness, can you read? I didn't blast people for not praising DD. I pointed out the hypocrisy of the Benny Boy worshipers. That is what that post was about. Edited November 29, 2017 by a700hitter

[Larry Cook]

Will we ever know how much of what happened was Ben and how much was Larry?

 

I think the signing of Hanley and Pablo was 100 percent Larry!

 

I think porcello’s extension was 100 percent Ben!

 

Bottom line is desperate dave ran off all those young studs in the baseball operations department and is winging it on his own! Our job is to prepare ourselves for a team that resembles the current Detroit fiasco in a few years!

 

Ps: as long as desperate Dave is running the show, I do not think we get another ring. Just a couple of years of very close!

[Spudboy]

Goodness, can you read? I didn't blast people for not praising DD. I pointed out the hypocrisy of the Benny Boy worshipers. That is what that post was about.

 

Unbelievable.

 

Now I have Mark Twain running through my mind every time I come on Talksox.

[cp176]

It is hypocritical that the same people who talk about the playoffs as crapshoot will criticize DD for consistently getting to the crap table, but not winning the Championship. At the same time the laud praise on Ben for finishing last 3 Times in 4 seasons and winning at the crap table the one time he got there. Sorry, but I will opt for consistent winning baseball that gives us a chance at a championship each October, but that is just me. At least my position doesn’t smack of hypocrisy.

 

This could be me writing this. I think possibly that a majority of Sox fans feel this way. We are not and never have been a small market team.

[cp176]

Will we ever know how much of what happened was Ben and how much was Larry?

 

I think the signing of Hanley and Pablo was 100 percent Larry!

 

I think porcello’s extension was 100 percent Ben!

 

Bottom line is desperate dave ran off all those young studs in the baseball operations department and is winging it on his own! Our job is to prepare ourselves for a team that resembles the current Detroit fiasco in a few years!

 

Ps: as long as desperate Dave is running the show, I do not think we get another ring. Just a couple of years of very close!

 

Do you really give a s*** who the GM was when X,Y, and Z were signed? A year or two ago we had arguments over which GM did this and that but in this last episode it has become an obsession. Giving credit to a GM for signing the best available players in any draft and for their future development is giving them credit for doing something that with a little help a trained monkey could do. Note to world - give the credit to the work the players have put in not the general managers. I was just a teacher in the trenches so maybe that is why I think that giving much credit to the suits not getting their hands dirty is a waste. If trying to paint a pretty picture of a former GM and vilifying someone else floats your boat, I guess you get to have at it. It isn't even baseball talk in my opinion though. We have created quite a divide for ourselves haven't we. None of us here know which GM was responsible for this or that and someone of us really don't care. The current guy in charge will always be the one I am cheering for.

[Jack Flap]

Maybe the Marlins will finally trade Stanton somewhere soon and save us from the 9,238th comparing/contrasting of Ben and Dave and rehashing of all of their respective decisions and transactions.

[cp176]

Maybe the Marlins will finally trade Stanton somewhere soon and save us from the 9,238th comparing/contrasting of Ben and Dave and rehashing of all of their respective decisions and transactions.

 

We can hope but I don't think that it will ever really change much here. Until I became a poster here, I have to admit I tended to forget the GM's names from time to time.

[Bellhorn04]

We can hope but I don't think that it will ever really change much here.

 

You're right. Some transactions will give us more to talk about. But the GM analysis and comparisons will never stop. It's a lot like a political topic.

[cp176]

You're right. Some transactions will give us more to talk about. But the GM analysis and comparisons will never stop. It's a lot like a political topic.

 

Yes it very much is!