Red Sox Trade Deadline 2017 Thread

[SoxHop]

Valaquez out of the pen. Hebree drops off in the second half. Maybe Johnson too, I really don't think these guys are starters.

[Spudboy]

You do realize DD was fired for leaving the Tigers in a similar position?

 

So?

[S5Dewey]

I wonder if DD would have been fired if the Tigers had won the WS while he was there.

 

A GM can only do so much and it appeared that he had put together a team that could win it all. That's about all one can expect from a GM.

[Jasonbay44]

Cherrington just had way too many awful deals in such a short tenure. He also seemed intent on not trading any prospects. I couldn't of seen him making some of these trades DD pulled off. That being said - DD has made some highly questionable moves. Shaw trade is looking like one of the worst in recent memory

[Hugh2]

Ben would have never had the balls to make the moves DD has made, but DD wouldn't of had the patience that allowed Ben to accumulate the assets DD used.

 

They are different GMs for different times.

[dgalehouse]

D.D. took over a team that had back to back dismal last place finishes. Won the Division last year and is leading it so far this year. Ortiz retired. Added players like Sale , Price , Pomeranz and Kimbrel. The results speak for themselves. Dombrowski is a knowledgable , experienced baseball man. Ben was a novice. I cannot understand the Cherington nostalgia that some people have. Maybe it is the love of following the progress of prospects through the system , and the willingness to abide cellar dwelling Sox teams as long as the " future looks bright ".

[notin]

I wonder if DD would have been fired if the Tigers had won the WS while he was there.

 

A GM can only do so much and it appeared that he had put together a team that could win it all. That's about all one can expect from a GM.

 

Well, he's not at fault for the team not winning, unless you fault him for the repeated collapses of his historically weak bullpens.

 

But the weak farm system and the horrific contracts he gave to players like Cabrera and Verlander, could cripple that franchise for years, especially if the team continues to play poorly, which will likely negatively impact attendance and in turn, earnings. This means their spending will be capped by the debt-equity ratio of the CBA.

 

So he left a team with no farm system and likely handicapped their ability to pay for free agents. Not a good spot...

[notin]

Ben would have never had the balls to make the moves DD has made, but DD wouldn't of had the patience that allowed Ben to accumulate the assets DD used.

 

They are different GMs for different times.

 

I can agree with this. My biggest gripe about Cherington was that he would never trade any prospects....

[Jack Flap]

Not according to Pete Abraham. I suggested that to him and he bit my head off.

 

I posted our discussion last week. You must have missed it or you are blinded by your undying adoration of things Benny:p

 

Which thread was this posted in? I didn't catch it either but would be interested...

[Spudboy]

Which thread was this posted in? I didn't catch it either but would be interested...

 

I do not recall but if I stumble on it I'll post it again or something. It was very brief except for my response to him. It happened on his Facebook page if that helps you. I bet it can be found there still.

[Spudboy]

Here it is. I copied from his page again.

 

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-14:23

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Spud · 2:29 What a waste of money. Was signing Pablo Ben's or Larry's decision?

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· July 14 at 3:57pm · Edited

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Peter Abraham

Peter Abraham · I love how when it's a bad decision, Larry did it. But the good decisions he had nothing to do with it. Like one person alone decides to spend $95 million. Think it out a little maybe?

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· July 14 at 4:25pm

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Spud · I have no idea who was responsible. It was a bad move. I only ask because it is a subject of debate on Talksox. Kind of hard to justify spending $95. mil. on a late 20's player with three consecutive years of offensive decline. Especially when that player was only making $9.6 mil. at that time. Just dumb. In the real world any manager that makes this decision gets the axe Pete.

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· July 14 at 4:29pm

[SoxHop]

Ben would have never had the balls to make the moves DD has made, but DD wouldn't of had the patience that allowed Ben to accumulate the assets DD used.

 

They are different GMs for different times.

 

I think this is simply perfect and exact to the point.

[moonslav59]

I can agree with this. My biggest gripe about Cherington was that he would never trade any prospects....

 

He traded de la Rosa & Webster for Wade Miley.

 

He traded Frank Montas and Iggy for Peavy.

 

Lars Anderson for Steven Wright.

 

Anthony Ranaudo for Robbie Ross.

 

Luis Ortega for B Badenhop.

 

Brandon jacobs for Matt Thornton.

 

Prospects and Melancon for Holt & Hanrihan.

 

I probably missed a few others.

 

[Spudboy]

Blockbusters all.

[bowman]

Yankees testing the waters on Stanton. I doubt if they can pull it off, but if they do, big problem....

[bowman]

Devers, Groome, and throw in Holt for Travis Shaw. DD won't do it because he knows we fans aren't stupid..

[BstHcpr]

Yankees testing the waters on Stanton. I doubt if they can pull it off, but if they do, big problem....

 

I guess they would flip Gardner.

[notin]

He traded de la Rosa & Webster for Wade Miley.

 

He traded Frank Montas and Iggy for Peavy.

 

Lars Anderson for Steven Wright.

 

Anthony Ranaudo for Robbie Ross.

 

Luis Ortega for B Badenhop.

 

Brandon jacobs for Matt Thornton.kg

 

Prospects and Melancon for Holt & Hanrihan.

 

I probably missed a few others.

 

 

Of all those minor leaguers, the only one who was a relevant prospect at the time of the deal was Webster...

[Jasonbay44]

He traded de la Rosa & Webster for Wade Miley.

 

He traded Frank Montas and Iggy for Peavy.

 

Lars Anderson for Steven Wright.

 

Anthony Ranaudo for Robbie Ross.

 

Luis Ortega for B Badenhop.

 

Brandon jacobs for Matt Thornton.

 

Prospects and Melancon for Holt & Hanrihan.

 

I probably missed a few others.

 

All were outstanding moves.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I would like to see the Red Sox acquire A.Reed and L.Duda. Duda is a better offensive player than Moreland and his defense, surprisingly, isn't far from Moreland's. I wonder what a Reed and Duda package would require? Can the Red Sox obtain both without giving up Groome?

 

It would start with M.Chavis -- what more would the Mets ask for?

 

I'm not buying the stuff on S.Leon, he is a replacement level catcher and a fringy major league player. He will probably be out of the league in a year or two. He can't hit. Sale doesn't need S.Leon to dominate. I would use Vazquez as my starting catcher, but it would be nice to occasionally get a better bat in there (Avila).

Edited July 23, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[a700hitter]

Were those ben's signings or larry's?

Ben was the GM and if he was such a puppet that he couldn't implement his own plan, then he was useless and gets credit for anything good that happened in his tenure. He was either accountable for what happened on his watch or he was a puppet regime that doesn't matter. Edited July 24, 2017 by a700hitter

[jacksonianmarch]

Reed and Duda would cost a bit. You'd need to offer at least one top 100 prospect, I'd assume.

[a700hitter]

 

But the weak farm system and the horrific contracts he gave to players like Cabrera and Verlander, could cripple that franchise for years, especially if the team continues to play poorly, which will likely negatively impact attendance and in turn, earnings. This means their spending will be capped by the debt-equity ratio of the CBA.

 

So he left a team with no farm system and likely handicapped their ability to pay for free agents. Not a good spot...

The difference is that Velrander (bad contract and all) is a great pitcher who has performed excellently for the Tigers. Muggy is one of the greatest hitters of all time and won a Triple Crown 2 seasons ago. Castillo, Craig, and Pablo have cost a bundle and have contributed nothing. Hanley has also been an extreme overpayment. DD paid a lot for Miggy and Verlander, but DD might has well have given $200 million to a homeless person for the return he got on the investment.

[a700hitter]

Duda stinks. I have seen too much of him living in NY. He gets Red hot for a week and hits 4 or 5 HRs and some doubles and then he disappears like a goat for 3-5 weeks. He is a terrible fielder and he has 2 bad hips. PASS! DD, stick with Moreland instead of wasting any prospects on Duda. Let the Yankees get him.

[jacksonianmarch]

The difference with DD is that he goes out and gets the top of the line. He doesn't go out and get a guy who is second tier when it comes to making big trades or signings. Yeah, he'll fill his roster in with those kinds of guys, but when he puts his prospects forward, he gets the top of the line. He did that in Detroit, trading for Miggy and extending him. He signed Verlander to a big extension, who last season should have won the CY. He went out and stole Magglio Ordonez. He dealt for Scherzer and Price.

 

He comes to Boston and signs Price, deals for Kimbrel and then deals for Sale. Star power isn't lost on him. You wont see him dealing the farm for a guy like Duda. You'll see him dealing the farm for a guy like Stanton. DD is about the big fish

[a700hitter]

Ben would get Duda and extend his contract. DD will not do that. Duda stinks. He really is terrible.

[Jasonbay44]

Duda is pretty much the same as Moreland, they're both mediocre. Why would we trade for someone who is same level player as guy we already have?

[jacksonianmarch]

Duda is a better hitter than Moreland. If you got Duda, he'd be your DH and Ramirez would move to 1b

[S5Dewey]

Well, he's not at fault for the team not winning, unless you fault him for the repeated collapses of his historically weak bullpens.

 

But the weak farm system and the horrific contracts he gave to players like Cabrera and Verlander, could cripple that franchise for years, especially if the team continues to play poorly, which will likely negatively impact attendance and in turn, earnings. This means their spending will be capped by the debt-equity ratio of the CBA.

 

So he left a team with no farm system and likely handicapped their ability to pay for free agents. Not a good spot...

 

All true, but IMO he wasn't fired because of those moves. He was fired because he made those moves AND the team didn't win the WS.

[Bellhorn04]

Duda is pretty much the same as Moreland, they're both mediocre. Why would we trade for someone who is same level player as guy we already have?

 

That's now commonly referred to as 'rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.'