Red Sox Trade Deadline 2017 Thread

[moonslav59]

They moved him from third to first because the team was averaging 3.79 runs a game with him hitting third.

 

I get why they did it, but with a team lacking in power, I don't like having Betts up first.

 

I'm not convinced batting Betts first was the reason our offense improved. I think it would have improved anyways.

 

I don't think it's urgent to move Betts. I felt moving JBJ up was more urgent, and I'd like to see him up 3rd or 4th now.

 

[Emp9]

They moved him from third to first because the team was averaging 3.79 runs a game with him hitting third.

 

at the begining of the year when NOBODY was hitting w/ RISP. Things change and moving Betts out of Lead-off is long over due

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure about that. If we've identified a guy who can help us win a WS this year and Ockimey is the player asked for in return I do t think Dave even blinks...he's gone in my opinion.

 

I like Ockimey but he's several years away and not a sure thing at a position that is relatively easy to fill.

 

Agreed, but there are probably several mid level prospects like Ockimey that GMs would take for an Aaron Hill type player. I'm just saying we may want to hold onto Ockimey slightly more than we did before the Longhi gtrade.

[OH FOY]

If I were the Sox, I would have put Peralta and Sandoval in Portland, so Devers gets valuable at bats In Triple AAA. Those old Vets, just need to stay upright.

Now you got to see if Ockimey is better, and he's only 2 months younger, in A+ ball.

Edited July 2, 2017 by OH FOY!

[Bellhorn04]

at the begining of the year when NOBODY was hitting w/ RISP. Things change and moving Betts out of Lead-off is long over due

 

I think the team reviews all the numbers and other factors and knows what it's doing a lot more than the armchair wizards here LOL

[a700hitter]

I think the team reviews all the numbers and other factors and knows what it's doing a lot more than the armchair wizards here LOL

That is true but that doesn't mean that the FO is doing a good job, because they have more information. I am not throwing any rocks at DD here, but with all the information available to him Ben made sooo many terrible and costly decisions.

[moonslav59]

I think the team reviews all the numbers and other factors and knows what it's doing a lot more than the armchair wizards here LOL

 

Maybe the move Betts to 3rd or 4th tomorrow. Does that make some here wrong and us right?

 

I think not.

[Emp9]

I think the team reviews all the numbers and other factors and knows what it's doing a lot more than the armchair wizards here LOL

 

I guess we should all stop posting then

[a700hitter]

I guess we should all stop posting then

LOL!!! Unless we are just posting to blow smoke up management's ass.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe the move Betts to 3rd or 4th tomorrow. Does that make some here wrong and us right?

 

I think not.

 

Yeah, they might move him. If they do they'll have their reasons. They have all the same numbers as we do and I'm quite sure they study them in more depth than we do. I just think people should relax and stop moaning and groaning when it comes to the lineup.

[Emp9]

LOL!!! Unless we are just posting to blow smoke up management's ass.

 

I happen to think maximizing our lineup to get the most out of it is an important issue.

[a700hitter]

I happen to think maximizing our lineup to get the most out of it is an important issue.

Agreed.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, they might move him. If they do they'll have their reasons. They have all the same numbers as we do and I'm quite sure they study them in more depth than we do. I just think people should relax and stop moaning and groaning when it comes to the lineup.

 

I don't really think I am moaning and groaning. I'm stating my views and philosophies knowing full well that they know more than I do and are "right" more than I am.

 

I'd prefer to have Betts batting 3rd or 4th. I said it's not an urgent issue.

 

Is one allowed to respectfully and constructively disagree with Sox management on a few minor points without being labelled as a moaner or groaner?

 

[cp176]

I think the team reviews all the numbers and other factors and knows what it's doing a lot more than the armchair wizards here LOL

 

It is a board that is just filled with opinions. Personally I'm no armchair wizard. I think that it is a good thing to not all share the same opinions. My opinion, which I know no one agrees with (just a joke) is that it is ridiculous to bat your primary run producers in positions where they cannot produce runs. lol

[Bellhorn04]

It is a board that is just filled with opinions. Personally I'm no armchair wizard. I think that it is a good thing to not all share the same opinions. My opinion, which I know no one agrees with (just a joke) is that it is ridiculous to bat your primary run producers in positions where they cannot produce runs. lol

 

Mookie is producing runs though. Driving them is important, scoring them is important too. He does it all.

[moonslav59]

Mookie is producing runs though. Driving them is important, scoring them is important too. He does it all.

 

His scoring runs is almost totally dependent on his OBP. Others can do the same. Yes, it's nice to get RBIs from the one slot too, but Pedey or Bogey would get some there too--maybe slightly less, but the theory is that we'd get more RBIs out of a power hitter up third instead of Bogey and his weak SLG%, and that the differential would outweigh what we'd get from a power hitter batting 1st.

[S5Dewey]

Have all of you forgotten that the batting order isn't as important as most people think it is? Or are we not "most people"?

[Kimmi]

I happen to think maximizing our lineup to get the most out of it is an important issue.

 

The problem with this thought, while valid, is that managers are too traditional in their thinking. Putting your best hitter in the 3rd slot does not maximize the line up. Your best hitters should hit 1st, 4th, and 2nd, with the higher OBP higher in the order and the higher slugging in the 4th spot.

 

Mookie batting 4th would be a good move. Mookie batting 3rd would not be.

[Kimmi]

Mookie is producing runs though. Driving them is important, scoring them is important too. He does it all.

 

Lost in this discussion is the fact that your #1 hitter will get more at bats. While moving him to 4th might be advantageous in one regard, there is a countering disadvantage to moving him down the line up.

[Bellhorn04]

Lost in this discussion is the fact that your #1 hitter will get more at bats.

 

I keep trying to make that point.

[Kimmi]

Have all of you forgotten that the batting order isn't as important as most people think it is? Or are we not "most people"?

 

Despite the sarcasm, this is a very true statement.

[Kimmi]

I keep trying to make that point.

 

I'm with you Bell.

[moonslav59]

The problem with this thought, while valid, is that managers are too traditional in their thinking. Putting your best hitter in the 3rd slot does not maximize the line up. Your best hitters should hit 1st, 4th, and 2nd, with the higher OBP higher in the order and the higher slugging in the 4th spot.

 

Mookie batting 4th would be a good move. Mookie batting 3rd would not be.

 

Line-up formation has been an age old talking point for fans. True, it's value is overblown, but the debates are interesting.

 

The 5 slot is also very important, and to me the bigger issue is why isn't JBJ batting 4th or 5th and not why Betts isn't 4th (or 3rd)?

 

[moonslav59]

Updated numbers after today's blowout:

 

Sox leaders in OBP:

.382 Pedey

.370 JBJ

.366 Bogey

.364 Betts

.353 HRam

.351 Beni

.350 Moreland

.343 Young

.314 Vaz

.300 Leon

.254 Marrero

 

SLG %

.506 Betts

.491 JBJ

.463 Moreland

.455 Bogey

.449 HRam

.431 Beni

.403 Leon

.397 Young

.378 Pedey

.376 Vaz

.347 Marrero

 

Just looking at the numbers, and going along with Kimmi's batting order analysis, it seems like Betts and should bat 4 or 5. I'm fine with Betts 4 and JBJ 5. Maybe put HRam 3rd.

 

1) Bogey

2) Pedey

3) HRam or Moreland

4) Betts

5) JBJ

6) Moreland (Tavis) or HRam (Young)

7) Beni (Young)

8) Vaz/Leon

9) Marrero/Lin

[SoxHop]

One thought I've been having is that first slot........

 

Say you have garbage hitters in the 8 and 9 hole........ then the 1 hole gets up with nothing on quite a bit. And with the garbage we have had until recently, we've seen Mookie up with a couple outs quite a bit.........

 

I keep having flashbacks to JBJ in the 9 hole....... it seemed like it worked quite a bit.

 

What about Benni hitting 9 for the sake of messing around....

[S5Dewey]

Despite the sarcasm, this is a very true statement.

 

Then why does everyone.. .including Kimmie... keep wanting to tinker with the lineup in spite of the fact that the Sox are currently on an offensive tear?? !!

 

I have a phrase for it.. .some people can't stand prosperity!

[moonslav59]

Then why does everyone.. .including Kimmie... keep wanting to tinker with the lineup in spite of the fact that the Sox are currently on an offensive tear?? !!

 

I have a phrase for it.. .some people can't stand prosperity!

 

Teams should always be looking for ways to improve, in fact our current winning stretch has included many line-up adjustments and substitutions. One could actually argue that to continue as we have been doing, we should continue tinkering with the line-up. For example, we moved JBJ up recently and have scored even more runs since the move.

 

We've began resting Moreland more with Travis on board, and we're still winning.

 

We play Young or don't play him- win and win.

 

We've moved Beni all over the line-up- win-win.

 

Pedey gets hurt, Bogey sits- win-win.

 

I love the "prosperity" that has come with tinkering.

 

 

 

 

 

[cp176]

i could be wrong I guess because traditionally putting your best hitter (although he might not be - depends on the criteria used) in the 3 hole assumes that you other good hitters on your team. Take it back Betts should be hitting number 3.

[jacksonianmarch]

Guys, your team is the prohibitive favorite to run away with the AL East with a team built for now. You upgrade your team and the future be damned. You have a 3 year window right now. At the end of that window, Price and Pedroia will be on the payroll as dead weight and your kids will become incredibly expensive. Bogaerts, Bradley and Sale hit the market after 2019. Betts after 2020. Your farm right now is depleted but still has one elite talent at the top capable of landing one more big prize and while you added a nice INTL class, they are 5 years away and with your team being good the next few years, your drafts wont land you much plug and play high end talent like Beni.

[moonslav59]

Guys, your team is the prohibitive favorite to run away with the AL East with a team built for now. You upgrade your team and the future be damned. You have a 3 year window right now. At the end of that window, Price and Pedroia will be on the payroll as dead weight and your kids will become incredibly expensive. Bogaerts, Bradley and Sale hit the market after 2019. Betts after 2020. Your farm right now is depleted but still has one elite talent at the top capable of landing one more big prize and while you added a nice INTL class, they are 5 years away and with your team being good the next few years, your drafts wont land you much plug and play high end talent like Beni.

 

We won in 2004, 2007 and 2013 without "damning the future". Trading away Devers, Travis or Groome or 2 or 3 of them won't guarantee a win anyways. We could trade for Machado and Verlander and still lose now and for the next 5 years plus.

 

I think we just need to upgrade 3B to average, and maybe we get a 5th starter type, if ERod looks sketchy or Porcello doesn't show signs of improvement by the deadline. We already greatly mortgaged much of our future for this 3 to 4 year window while keeping some sort of hope for the 4th year and beyond. I don't see the need to throw everything we have for a one year greater shot.