How wrong can an old fart get? (JBJ)

[bosoxmal]

Very wrong! nd happy as hell about it! I wanted him traded, sold, sent to Portland---aaby place but CF for this contending team. DO JACKIE111

(OFFSETTING: Well I was right about Mookie. That's something!)

[moonslav59]

Take a longer view...

 

on everyone and everything.

[Jasonbay44]

JBJ is the man. As I've been saying for years, if we get ANYTHING from his offensively its a plus. His defense will save so many runs we can afford to have him hit .200. He's a guy I've always been a homer for and seeing him do well makes me very happy.

[Spudboy]

He may run hot and cold at the plate to extremes but he is always really good defensively.

 

I have no problems with JBJ at all.

[moonslav59]

He may run hot and cold at the plate to extremes but he is always really good defensively.

 

I have no problems with JBJ at all.

 

JBJ will likely go cold again at some point, and I hope the skeptics remember this time when it happens.

[Bellhorn04]

Jackie B. Goode.

[S5Dewey]

He may run hot and cold at the plate to extremes but he is always really good defensively.

 

I have no problems with JBJ at all.

 

I have no problems with JBJ and I never did. It's nice to see that people are now seeing what he brings to the game defensively..... now that his offense has improved. Hmmm... where were these people before?

[Bellhorn04]

I have no problems with JBJ and I never did. It's nice to see that people are now seeing what he brings to the game defensively..... now that his offense has improved. Hmmm... where were these people before?

 

Lurking like buzzards on a fence!

[devildavid]

Very wrong! nd happy as hell about it! I wanted him traded, sold, sent to Portland---aaby place but CF for this contending team. DO JACKIE111

(OFFSETTING: Well I was right about Mookie. That's something!)

 

Hey, nobody's perfect. You've still have had your share of good insights on the Sox. Your experience and knowledge of Red Sox history and baseball is a very valuable resource to this board.

[greenwell]

JBJ will likely go cold again at some point, and I hope the skeptics remember this time when it happens.

 

Very funny. Has history given you any indication that this is even a remote possibility?

[moonslav59]

Very funny. Has history given you any indication that this is even a remote possibility?

 

It wasn't a joke.

 

This happens all the time with players who are streaky and posters who rely heavily on most recent small sample sizes to sway their opinions.

[bosoxmal]

It wasn't a joke.

 

This happens all the time with players who are streaky and posters who rely heavily on most recent small sample sizes to sway their opinions.

This not some 21 year old kid we/re talking about here. Jackie has been around for 4 years. He's 27 His current turnaround was totally unexpeced (by me, anyway). and I hope he foesn't go backwards again! That would not be tolerable.

[devildavid]

This not some 21 year old kid we/re talking about here. Jackie has been around for 4 years. He's 27 His current turnaround was totally unexpeced (by me, anyway). and I hope he foesn't go backwards again! That would not be tolerable.

 

All he is saying is that all hitters can go through hot and cold streaks. It doesn't mean that they lose the ability to hit or don't have talent. It happens to all hitters in the ebb and flow of a long season.

[Spudboy]

Hey, nobody's perfect. You've still have had your share of good insights on the Sox. Your experience and knowledge of Red Sox history and baseball is a very valuable resource to this board.

 

Amen to that.

[Maxbialystock]

Very wrong! nd happy as hell about it! I wanted him traded, sold, sent to Portland---aaby place but CF for this contending team. DO JACKIE111

(OFFSETTING: Well I was right about Mookie. That's something!)

 

Meh. A lot of us agreed with you, including me. I did think it was OK to keep him in the Sox system, just in case, and even to give him periodic looks with the big club, but I was not hopeful.

 

Even this year the doubts came back and my memories of repeatedly failures in 2014 and 2015 (before he got hot in August) returned.

 

Where I most emphatically agree with you is on the point that it's so great to be wrong when you underestimate a player.

[mvp 78]

His seasons are always a mix of lengthy cold streaks and one nice hotter than Hell hot streak. It's just who he is as a player.

[royf19]

I love Bradley's defense, so I don't mind the hot and cold streakiness offensively because when he gets hot, he seems to get red hot. I do want some offense from CF so he needs to be better than .220, .230. He's up to .253 and is on the pace for 20-plus homers and 80-plus RBIs. So if ends up with those kind of numbers, I'd take that in a heartbeat. I thought what he did last year was great. And hopefully, he'll continue to improve so his slumps aren't so severe.

[Kimmi]

Very wrong! nd happy as hell about it! I wanted him traded, sold, sent to Portland---aaby place but CF for this contending team. DO JACKIE111

(OFFSETTING: Well I was right about Mookie. That's something!)

 

LOL Right or wrong, I think you're awesome. We've all been terribly wrong about baseball related topics on more than one occasion.

[Kimmi]

Take a longer view...

 

on everyone and everything.

 

That's the main thing. Whether it's good or bad, it's difficult to make any definitive assessments over such a short period of time.

 

Patience is the key.

[moonslav59]

This not some 21 year old kid we/re talking about here. Jackie has been around for 4 years. He's 27 His current turnaround was totally unexpeced (by me, anyway). and I hope he foesn't go backwards again! That would not be tolerable.

 

He might very well end up being a streaky hitter, and if he does, he may have a long cold streak in store for us, but my guess is he will follow that up with another hot streak, so again, try to take a longer view.

 

Players don't always repeat their most recent numbers over and over again. Most players have ups and downs-- maybe JBJ's are more pronounced and or lengthy-- both good and bad.

[Jack Flap]

A couple of thoughts...

 

1. RE: "This not some 21 year old kid we/re talking about here. Jackie has been around for 4 years. He's 27 His current turnaround was totally unexpeced (by me, anyway)."

And of the years he's been around, he was a bad hitter in 2013 (relatively small sample size of 107 PA's) and 2014, arguably because he was rushed to the majors before he should have been; since then, he has not showed anything close to the sort of protracted, hopeless futility he went through in 2014. Looking at what he did in the minors as a prospect coming up, and what he's done since the beginning of 2015, there is far more evidence that he is a good hitter than not. I would argue the turnaround should have been anything but unexpected.

 

2. If you look at his game logs for this season, the period when he was really lost can be isolated to the 12 games (47 PA) that followed his activation from the DL. By comparison, Benintendi went through an 87 PA stretch from mid-May to early June where he hit .123/.221/.137 and his OPS dropped over 200 points, yet I did not hear anything approaching the same gloom and doom. Some people greatly overreacted to a rather unremarkable SSS slump by JBJ (one that probably would have been overlooked had it come later in the season), plain and simple.

 

The guy is a valuable contributor with the bat as well as the glove, and if anyone hasn't grasped that yet, I'd say it's time to get on board.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Jack Flap

[moonslav59]

A couple of thoughts...

 

1. RE: "This not some 21 year old kid we/re talking about here. Jackie has been around for 4 years. He's 27 His current turnaround was totally unexpeced (by me, anyway)."

And of the years he's been around, he was a bad hitter in 2013 (relatively small sample size of 107 PA's) and 2014, arguably because he was rushed to the majors before he should have been; since then, he has not showed anything close to the sort of protracted, hopeless futility he went through in 2014. Looking at what he did in the minors as a prospect coming up, and what he's done since the beginning of 2015, there is far more evidence that he is a good hitter than not. I would argue the turnaround should have been anything but unexpected.

 

2. If you look at his game logs for this season, the period when he was really lost can be isolated to the 12 games (47 PA) that followed his activation from the DL. By comparison, Benintendi went through an 87 PA stretch from mid-May to early June where he hit .123/.221/.137 and his OPS dropped over 200 points, yet I did not hear anything approaching the same gloom and doom. Some people greatly overreacted to a rather unremarkable SSS slump by JBJ (one that probably would have been overlooked had it come later in the season), plain and simple.

 

The guy is a valuable contributor with the bat as well as the glove, and if anyone hasn't grasped that yet, I'd say it's time to get on board.

 

Well said.

 

I'm willing to overlook his poor start in MLB and not hold it against him years later.

 

Maybe cherry-picking his numbers starting with his white hot streak in August of 2015 might not be the fairest sample size to chose, but JBJ is nearing 2 full seasons of exceptional play--

GG type defense AND .800+ batting for 3 straight seasons.

 

I can't see how anyone can't look beyond the poor stretches and see the totality of what JBJ brings to this team.

 

Yeah, I prefer consistency at the plate, but it's not like having a player who has red hot and ice cold stretches is necessarily a bad thing as long as the final numbers end up near .800. Heck, with JBJ's defense a .700 OPS would still make him unqualified success.

[S5Dewey]

Heck, with JBJ's defense a .700 OPS would still make him unqualified success.

 

I agree with you but I'm not sure everyone would. That could amount to a .150 BA and .550 slugging %. IMHO most fans wouldn't put up with that, even if they played CF like..... like... er... like JBJ!

[moonslav59]

I agree with you but I'm not sure everyone would. That could amount to a .150 BA and .550 slugging %. IMHO most fans wouldn't put up with that, even if they played CF like..... like... er... like JBJ!

 

I'd be okay with .650, but I know most couldn't handle even .700.

 

My .700 would look more like .300 OBP and .400 SLG not .150/.550.

[S5Dewey]

I'd be okay with .650, but I know most couldn't handle even .700.

 

My .700 would look more like .300 OBP and .400 SLG not .150/.550.

 

I agree. I was being extremist to make a point.

[moonslav59]

I agree. I was being extremist to make a point.

 

I figured you were, but that .550 SLG would be pretty nice to see.

[royf19]

Well said.

 

I'm willing to overlook his poor start in MLB and not hold it against him years later.

 

Maybe cherry-picking his numbers starting with his white hot streak in August of 2015 might not be the fairest sample size to chose, but JBJ is nearing 2 full seasons of exceptional play--

GG type defense AND .800+ batting for 3 straight seasons.

 

I can't see how anyone can't look beyond the poor stretches and see the totality of what JBJ brings to this team.

 

Yeah, I prefer consistency at the plate, but it's not like having a player who has red hot and ice cold stretches is necessarily a bad thing as long as the final numbers end up near .800. Heck, with JBJ's defense a .700 OPS would still make him unqualified success.

 

The good thing with Bradley last year and this year is that with the exeception of April, the months in which his average was in the .230s or lower, his power and run production numbers were decent (4 or 5 HRs and 12-13 RBIs), so he wasn't a total black hole.

[moonslav59]

The good thing with Bradley last year and this year is that with the exeception of April, the months in which his average was in the .230s or lower, his power and run production numbers were decent (4 or 5 HRs and 12-13 RBIs), so he wasn't a total black hole.

 

Yes, it seems like when he slumps, the power stays there, so at least his few hits are big ones.

[Maxbialystock]

Right now he has the 3d highest OWAR and 2d highest DWAR on the team. In both cases, he is right behind Betts.

 

Anybody on this team can slump--and has--but JBJ this year seems to be steadily improving, April to May to June, so I think we may be seeing the next chapter in the JBJ book.

 

I like him in the lower part of the batting order even though Hanley sucks so far. And I think that lefty bat is really handy especially when he seems now to also be able to hit lefty pitchers.

 

We have a basketful of midgets in the outfield, and they just might be the best in MLB, hitting and fielding. Beni is by far the weakest link, which is saying a lot about the other two.

[SoxHop]

JBJ is the man. As I've been saying for years, if we get ANYTHING from his offensively its a plus. His defense will save so many runs we can afford to have him hit .200. He's a guy I've always been a homer for and seeing him do well makes me very happy.

 

Same here. Seems like a very humble guy who battled through major struggles.......

 

I'd have to say I rout for the guy more than most on our team.......