Who gets sent packing?

[dustcover]

With Marrero belting two HR's tonight and Travis getting three hits and Rutledge filling in for Pedroia at 2B, who gets sent packing to make room for Sandoval?

[Spudboy]

With Marrero belting two HR's tonight and Travis getting three hits and Rutledge filling in for Pedroia at 2B, who gets sent packing to make room for Sandoval?

 

Pedroia is on the DL.

[Jasonbay44]

When Pedroia is healthy, I imagine Travis will be odd man out, as he is only one with options left, correct? I doubt team would risk losing Rutledge or Marrero with how hard they've been hit with injuries in infield. Hernandez is done for year and Holt remains a huge question mark.

[Dojji]

I want it to be Sandoval. Seriously how the hell does this guy keep conning this team into giving him more chances? He's got nothing and he's had nothing for THREE FREAKING YEARS. Get it in your heads guys. Sandoval is a dud. Yeah he used to be an all star but that was over 3 years ago. he's a dud and he's been a dud for years. Move the **** on.

 

Marrerro at least provides value with the glove, and if the team is smart they will give Travis all the AB's he can handle until he cools off. That means the odd man out, if it's not the guy that it should be if there was any justice in the world, is Rudledge.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Dojji

[cp176]

I want it to be Sandoval. Seriously how the hell does this guy keep conning this team into giving him more chances? He's got nothing and he's had nothing for THREE FREAKING YEARS. Get it in your heads guys. Sandoval is a dud. Yeah he used to be an all star but that was over 3 years ago. he's a dud and he's been a dud for years. Move the **** on.

 

Marrerro at least provides value with the glove, and if the team is smart they will give Travis all the AB's he can handle until he cools off. That means the odd man out, if it's not the guy that it should be if there was any justice in the world, is Rudledge.

 

Rutledge does give us depth for sure but I think you have it about the way it is apt to shake out. I have always been optimistic when it comes to Marrero. I don't see him as a third baseman but without Hernandez and with Pedroia's injury history, Marrero could be the one for the job. it doesn't seem that long ago that people thought that he would become our next ss. I do think that Sandoval will get one more opportunity which I give about a 25 to 75% chance of working out. odds not being in his favor. With respect to Travis, he has always hit. Much like Benintendi.

[illinoisredsox]

I want it to be Sandoval. Seriously how the hell does this guy keep conning this team into giving him more chances? He's got nothing and he's had nothing for THREE FREAKING YEARS. Get it in your heads guys. Sandoval is a dud. Yeah he used to be an all star but that was over 3 years ago. he's a dud and he's been a dud for years. Move the **** on.

 

If Sandoval had 1/2 year instead of 2 1/2 years left on his contract, he would likely be the one to go. But those extra 2 years loom large to the guys who have actually pay the contract, so it's not always strictly a baseball decision.

 

Marrerro at least provides value with the glove, and if the team is smart they will give Travis all the AB's he can handle until he cools off. That means the odd man out, if it's not the guy that it should be if there was any justice in the world, is Rudledge.

 

Rutledge was a Rule 5 selectee, which means if they do decide to cut ties with him, they have to offer him back to Colorado for $25,000. They can't directly send him down. I'm not even sure he has options. He is at least holding his own offensively. Too bad the can't morph Rutledge and Marrero together into one player.

 

There's not a lot of use speculating since there is no way of knowing how long Pedroia will be out. If I had to hazard a guess, it would be Travis going back down so he can get regular ABs (since they are using him now only against southpaws).

[mvp 78]

There will be a timeshare with Pablo, Rutledge and Marrero at 2B/3B while Pedroia is on the DL.

[Dojji]

If Sandoval had 1/2 year instead of 2 1/2 years left on his contract, he would likely be the one to go. But those extra 2 years loom large to the guys who have actually pay the contract, so it's not always strictly a baseball decision.

 

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/how-the-sunk-cost-fallacy-makes-you-act-stupid.html

 

The money is gone. It's guaranteed. He will get his money no matter what, period. You can't get that money back. That means it doesn't even MATTER to rational decision making. You have to write that money off and do what's best for the team and DD is not doing that by compounding the problem of the lost money by letting Sandoval keep playing BELOW REPLACEMENT LEVEL ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL.

 

Sandoval is literally providing negative value even if you ignore the sunk cost, and players who are actually moderately useful, such as Rutledge, Marrero and Travis are on the chopping block as a result. idiotic. Literally counterproductive in several different ways.

 

The only reason to keep playing Sandoval is to try to look good if he performs well. Given 2.5 years of complete nonproductive play the odds of successfully "turning him around" are microscopic, and doing it for sheer preening points is moronic in light of the opportunity cost of either losing an infielder or having to demote a guy who's red hot at the plate. FFS the executive who signed the guy has already fallen on his sword. There is nothing to salvage here. Let Panda fall through the cracks and put an actual baseball player in his place.

 

Executives of a top baseball organization need to use brain on world better than this. AXE THIS GUY ALREADY.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Dojji

[Emp9]

I just hope they're not showcasing Travis for a trade. I'd like to start him next season as our fulltime 1B after Moreland is gone.

[mvp 78]

The only problem with "sunk cost" is that it doesn't take into account additional salaries that need to added underneath a payroll cap.

 

If Pablo is traded and the Sox pay 100% of the salary, is it still on the Sox' cap figure?

[Emp9]

I'd hope that 3B winds-up being what Remy said last night. Pablo for the early portion of most games and then bring in Marrero as the defensive replacement later on. Maybe both get 2 ABs a game. As far as who gets sent down... Boyer? idk

[Maxbialystock]

Like most people, I'm inclined to let Pablo go, but I have to admit that contract argues strongly for giving him more time. He was successful and effective with the Giants. He has lost weight. And he has not played a lot of baseball since coming off and going back on the DL.

 

I agree with mvp78 that the mostly likely scenario is Sandoval, Rutledge, and Marrero sharing time. Decision time is when Pedroia returns.

[Dojji]

The only problem with "sunk cost" is that it doesn't take into account additional salaries that need to added underneath a payroll cap.

 

If Pablo is traded and the Sox pay 100% of the salary, is it still on the Sox' cap figure?

 

The hit to the Cap is just another sunk cost in this situation MVP. The only way to get out of it is to trade Sandoval, and really -- what would induce YOU to take a flyer on the guy at this point?

[moonslav59]

The hit to the Cap is just another sunk cost in this situation MVP. The only way to get out of it is to trade Sandoval, and really -- what would induce YOU to take a flyer on the guy at this point?

 

Actually, we could avoid paying the tax by DFA'ing Pablo (like Craig and Castillo) and parking him at AAA for the remainder of his contract.

 

His salary would not count against the luxury tax, if he is not on the 40 man roster.

 

I'm not advocating this choice at this point, but it could be an option at some point.

 

I see 2018 like this, with a little optimism sprinkled in...

 

Moreland departs

 

HRam and Travis share 1B duty

 

HRam and Pablo share DH duty with Pablo maybe playing only vs some/most RHPs.

 

Devers and Pablo share 3B duty with Devers playing near FT.

 

4 players for corner IF/DH.

 

Marco, Marrero and Rutledge (Holt, if he ever returns) fight it out for the utility IF position.

[moonslav59]

Decision time is when Pedroia returns.

 

They could send Travis down and still keep the three 3Bmen.

[Dojji]

Travis is a hot bat. I don't want him sent down until and unless he's not helping us.

 

The strong possibility he gets sent down as the "answer" to Pedroia's return is what I meant when I was babbling about opportunity costs. Pablo is a great big fat liability. He may be less fat than he was, but not less of a liability. Axe that man.

[moonslav59]

Travis is a hot bat. I don't want him sent down until and unless he's not helping us.

 

The strong possibility he gets sent down as the "answer" to Pedroia's return is what I meant when I was babbling about opportunity costs. Pablo is a great big fat liability. He may be less fat than he was, but not less of a liability. Axe that man.

 

Travis has 12 PAs. When Pedey's 10 days are up, we may know slightly more about Sam, but we could also say the same about the red hot Marrero (.939 OPS and 3 HRs in 22 PAs).

[mvp 78]

The hit to the Cap is just another sunk cost in this situation MVP. The only way to get out of it is to trade Sandoval, and really -- what would induce YOU to take a flyer on the guy at this point?

 

If I'm an opposing team that has a need at 3B, I'd be willing to take on Pablo if the Sox ate 90% of the remaining contract and didn't want any real prospects in return.

 

Hypothetical trade:

 

OAK trades Trevor Plouffe

BOS trades Pablo Sandoval + $45M towards future salary

 

This would be great for Pablo. It'd get him just across the bay from where he was a WS hero. He'd also stay in the AL and would be able to DH when needed.

[S5Dewey]

Actually, we could avoid paying the tax by DFA'ing Pablo (like Craig and Castillo) and parking him at AAA for the remainder of his contract.

 

His salary would not count against the luxury tax, if he is not on the 40 man roster.

 

 

Am I overlooking something?

 

I found this on line...

Any player who has accrued 5 years of Major League service has earned the right to refuse any minor league assignment. If such a player exercises this right, his team must either reinstate the player to the active roster or grant him his unconditional release. If the player is released, the team is on the hook for the remainder of the player's contract.

 

And in a related question, did Alan Craig agree to the Pawtucket assignment?

[illinoisredsox]

Actually, we could avoid paying the tax by DFA'ing Pablo (like Craig and Castillo) and parking him at AAA for the remainder of his contract.

 

His salary would not count against the luxury tax, if he is not on the 40 man roster.

 

I'm not advocating this choice at this point, but it could be an option at some point.

 

I see 2018 like this, with a little optimism sprinkled in...

 

Moreland departs

 

HRam and Travis share 1B duty

 

HRam and Pablo share DH duty with Pablo maybe playing only vs some/most RHPs.

 

Devers and Pablo share 3B duty with Devers playing near FT.

 

4 players for corner IF/DH.

 

Marco, Marrero and Rutledge (Holt, if he ever returns) fight it out for the utility IF position.

 

Moon, we've been through this; the Craig/Castillo treatment won't work with Sandoval. As a 5+ year vet, he can refuse any minor league assignment, which would force the Sox to keep him on the major league roster or DFA him. If the latter, somebody could sign him (it will be for the minimum) and the Sox are on the hook for the difference. If no one signs him, they are on the hook for the whole thing. Either way, all or virtually all of his remaining $50+ million salary will count against the cap over the next 3 years.

[illinoisredsox]

Am I overlooking something?

 

I found this on line...

Any player who has accrued 5 years of Major League service has earned the right to refuse any minor league assignment. If such a player exercises this right, his team must either reinstate the player to the active roster or grant him his unconditional release. If the player is released, the team is on the hook for the remainder of the player's contract.

 

And in a related question, did Alan Craig agree to the Pawtucket assignment?

 

Sorry Dewey, didn't see this before I posted.

 

In answer to your question, Craig has about 4 years big league service time, so he had no say so in a minor league assignment. Plus, he still had options.

[S5Dewey]

Sorry Dewey, didn't see this before I posted.

 

In answer to your question, Craig has about 4 years big league service time, so he had no say so in a minor league assignment. Plus, he still had options.

 

No problem. I wasn't aware that Craig only had less than 5 years of service time.

Thanks

[mvp 78]

Moon, we've been through this; the Craig/Castillo treatment won't work with Sandoval. As a 5+ year vet, he can refuse any minor league assignment, which would force the Sox to keep him on the major league roster or DFA him. If the latter, somebody could sign him (it will be for the minimum) and the Sox are on the hook for the difference. If no one signs him, they are on the hook for the whole thing. Either way, all or virtually all of his remaining $50+ million salary will count against the cap over the next 3 years.

 

DD: "Listen Pablo, if you accept the assignment to AAA, we will never monitor your weight again. If you stay in Boston, we'll be checking in on you daily."

PS: "What are we waiting for?"

DD: "We've already subletted a room for you near Federal Hill."

PS: "Great!"

[moonslav59]

Moon, we've been through this; the Craig/Castillo treatment won't work with Sandoval. As a 5+ year vet, he can refuse any minor league assignment, which would force the Sox to keep him on the major league roster or DFA him. If the latter, somebody could sign him (it will be for the minimum) and the Sox are on the hook for the difference. If no one signs him, they are on the hook for the whole thing. Either way, all or virtually all of his remaining $50+ million salary will count against the cap over the next 3 years.

 

Gottcha.

 

I forgot about us going through all this a couple months ago.

 

Thanks.

[moonslav59]

No problem. I wasn't aware that Craig only had less than 5 years of service time.

Thanks

 

According to soxprospects.com...

 

 

MLB Service Time (through 2016): 4 years, 154 days

[moonslav59]

If I'm an opposing team that has a need at 3B, I'd be willing to take on Pablo if the Sox ate 90% of the remaining contract and didn't want any real prospects in return.

 

Hypothetical trade:

 

OAK trades Trevor Plouffe

BOS trades Pablo Sandoval + $45M towards future salary

 

This would be great for Pablo. It'd get him just across the bay from where he was a WS hero. He'd also stay in the AL and would be able to DH when needed.

 

Jeff Samardzija is 1-7 with a 4.63 ERA right now. He's owed $54M over the next 3 years after this one. He'll be owed about $6M at the trade deadline. That's $60M.

 

Pablo is owed:

2017:$17M/year (about $6M at the dealine). 18-19:$18M/year. 20:$17M club option ($5M buyout) That's $47M minimum.

 

SF's 3Bman is hitting under a .550 OPS.

 

How about we send Pablo back to SF, who would save $13M over 3.3 years.

 

Pablo, Johnson and Holt

for

Samardzija

 

Move Pom to long relief.

[Spudboy]

DD: "Listen Pablo, if you accept the assignment to AAA, we will never monitor your weight again. If you stay in Boston, we'll be checking in on you daily."

PS: "What are we waiting for?"

DD: "We've already subletted a room for you near Federal Hill."

PS: "Great!"

 

For those of you not familiar with the Providence, RI area, Federal Hill is where much of the best Italian food ( and other types ) in New England are available.

 

Best Veal Cutlet in Porcinni Sauce I ever ate.

[Bellhorn04]

Not much hope of trading Pablo unless he shows he's still a major league hitter and can stay on the field for a few games in a row.

[Bellhorn04]

Jeff Samardzija is 1-7 with a 4.63 ERA right now. He's owed $54M over the next 3 years after this one. He'll be owed about $6M at the trade deadline. That's $60M.

 

Pablo is owed:

2017:$17M/year (about $6M at the dealine). 18-19:$18M/year. 20:$17M club option ($5M buyout) That's $47M minimum.

 

SF's 3Bman is hitting under a .550 OPS.

 

How about we send Pablo back to SF, who would save $13M over 3.3 years.

 

Pablo, Johnson and Holt

for

Samardzija

 

Move Pom to long relief.

 

Still trying to trade Holt even though his career may be over because of his medical issues. That's the spirit!

[Spudboy]

Not much hope of trading Pablo unless he shows he's still a major league hitter and can stay on the field for a few games in a row.

 

If I'm DD I have Magic Johnson on speed dial.

 

He is stupid enough to make that trade, I think.