Farrell

[mvp 78]

@iamjoonlee

 

When a player’s manager loses the clubhouse, he’s lost his biggest asset. That’s what happened. Red Sox needed to move on.

[devildavid]

Per TalkSox:

 

Baseball is random.

 

Managers don't matter.

 

Batting order doesn't matter.

 

The offseason doesn't matter.

 

So, just throw whoever out there and the results would be just the same.

 

Straw man alert.

[mvp 78]

@iamjoonlee

 

A LOT of the players also love Chili Davis. Already has a strong rapport with young stars on the team. Would suspect he gets a long look.

[mvp 78]

Straw man alert.

 

That is NOT a straw man argument. If baseball is random, batting order results don't really matter and the manager matter the least of all, then it doesn't matter who is on the team or coaching it. Otherwise, it's not really "random" and the manager is important.

[devildavid]

Farrell was not to blame that his team was not the best team in the AL postseason.

 

But I hope the new manager puts a stop to the aggressive base running philosophy.

[SoxnCycles]

Straw man alert.

 

Some folks hate to see their fantasies questioned.

[devildavid]

That is NOT a straw man argument. If baseball is random, batting order results don't really matter and the manager matter the least of all, then it doesn't matter who is on the team or coaching it. Otherwise, it's not really "random" and the manager is important.

 

You don't know what a straw man is. No one has made the claims exactly in the way you have stated them. That is a straw man.

[mvp 78]

Farrell was not to blame that his team was not the best team in the AL postseason.

 

But I hope the new manager puts a stop to the aggressive base running philosophy.

 

At what point do managers get any blame then?

 

There were two consecutive September swoons where they played terribly and then were trounced in the playoffs. How does he not get any blame for that?

 

If he gets no blame for that, he can't get any credit for 2013.

[SoxnCycles]

Farrell was not to blame that his team was not the best team in the AL postseason.

 

But I hope the new manager puts a stop to the aggressive base running philosophy.

 

True.

I didn't care either way but I'll wait to see who gets hired before I get too excited.

[mvp 78]

You don't know what a straw man is. No one has made the claims exactly in the way you have stated them. That is a straw man.

 

1. People claim baseball is random

2. People claim that the batting order doesn't matter that much

3. People say that the managers matter very little

 

I know the gag is that if you don't like an argument, just claim it's a strawman. I get it.

[Slasher9]

you're Fired!

[Spudboy]

1. People claim baseball is random

2. People claim that the batting order doesn't matter that much

3. People say that the managers matter very little

 

I know the gag is that if you don't like an argument, just claim it's a strawman. I get it.

 

Ignore the twit.

[SoxnCycles]

you're Fired!

 

Fans were peeing themselves with joy over Francona leaving too.

How'd that work out?

[Station 13]

I just believe players hate him, especially Reed and how Farrell embarrasses him. And how some idiots just never learned like wild Benni Boy. He doesn't have a grip of the clubhouse.

[illinoisredsox]

Straw man alert.

 

That is NOT a straw man argument. If baseball is random, batting order results don't really matter and the manager matter the least of all, then it doesn't matter who is on the team or coaching it. Otherwise, it's not really "random" and the manager is important.

 

I agree with mvp, it's not a straw man.

 

If it were the NFL, though, it would be flagged for taunting.

[mvp 78]

Fans were peeing themselves with joy over Francona leaving too.

How'd that work out?

 

I think smart fans (like myself) realized that whoever came after the greatest Sox manager of all time would definitely be a downgrade.

[Station 13]

If Ausmus is taking over, they should lose games next year. Get Alex Cora.

[Slasher9]

Fans were peeing themselves with joy over Francona leaving too.

How'd that work out?

 

i hear you. i was never on board firing Tito. as of 2 months ago i was completely done with JF. i honestly believe we need someone that works well with the kids. i dont think JF was that guy. i would bet the farm whomever they get will be good with the youth.

[mvp 78]

you're Fired!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNX_wGyKhmM

[devildavid]

If Ausmus is taking over, they should lose games next year. Get Alex Cora.

 

I like that suggestion.

[TylerD]

I just believe players hate him, especially Reed and how Farrell embarrasses him. And how some idiots just never learned like wild Benni Boy. He doesn't have a grip of the clubhouse.

 

I was thinking this too however he is quick to backup his players over bad calls and doesn't even hesitate. But if the players hate a manager its a recipe for disaster. It just becomes toxic throughout the entire team unfortunately.

[SoxnCycles]

i hear you. i was never on board firing Tito. as of 2 months ago i was completely done with JF. i honestly believe we need someone that works well with the kids. i dont think JF was that guy. i would bet the farm whomever they get will be good with the youth.

 

Yup, the guy definitely had issues with some of the players.

but, I don't buy the whole "lost the clubhouse" BS

 

Looked to me like the Sox played really well, in the second half of the season, for someone they hated.

[mvp 78]

Just read through old TS posts about Tito being fired. Not too many people were jumping with joy here. Most said that it had to be done because of the clubhouse drama, but that they were very sad to see him go. Maybe it was different if you were wherever SBF and Pumpsie were posting.

[devildavid]

At what point do managers get any blame then?

 

There were two consecutive September swoons where they played terribly and then were trounced in the playoffs. How does he not get any blame for that?

 

If he gets no blame for that, he can't get any credit for 2013.

 

Chris Sale swoons every September. A new manager will be challenged to change that. Was the drop off in hitting Farrell's fault? How much impact will a new manager have on that? If Dombrowski brings in a big bat it we can't credit that to the new manager.

 

The Red Sox lost because they were not as good as the Astros. They also weren't as good as the Guardians and the Yankees.

[mvp 78]

@craigcalcaterra

 

It's been like an hour and no one from the Sox front office has leaked bad info about Farrell. It truly is a new era in Boston.

[mvp 78]

Chris Sale swoons every September. A new manager will be challenged to change that. Was the drop off in hitting Farrell's fault? How much impact will a new manager have on that? If Dombrowski brings in a big bat it we can't credit that to the new manager.

 

The Red Sox lost because they were not as good as the Astros. They also weren't as good as the Guardians and the Yankees.

 

Was Chris Sale the only (or main) reason they failed in September? I don't believe so.

 

I think hitting preparation and approach is an issue for this team. Many smart posters have been saying it all along. I think new coaching could change that.

 

The Stros went from striking out all day long to becoming the stingiest. A lot of it has to do with coaching.

[Maxbialystock]

I started this thread and by and large have defended Farrell but have always believed upper management, including the owner, should have final say on the field manager. In this case, as with Francona, this was not exactly a firing but rather an unwillingness to give Farrell a new contract. Back in the day I also defended Francona regularly but in the end was fine with the decision to let him go. I honestly believe that, while some managers are better than others, almost no manager is indispensable. If DD and JH don't like what they see on the field or what they think they see in the clubhouse (or hear about), they are absolutely entitled to make a change.

[mvp 78]

I started this thread and by and large have defended Farrell but have always believed upper management, including the owner, should have final say on the field manager. In this case, as with Francona, this was not exactly a firing but rather an unwillingness to give Farrell a new contract. Back in the day I also defended Francona regularly but in the end was fine with the decision to let him go. I honestly believe that, while some managers are better than others, almost no manager is indispensable. If DD and JH don't like what they see on the field or what they think they see in the clubhouse (or hear about), they are absolutely entitled to make a change.

 

True enough.

[Spudboy]

Chris Sale swoons every September. A new manager will be challenged to change that. Was the drop off in hitting Farrell's fault? How much impact will a new manager have on that? If Dombrowski brings in a big bat it we can't credit that to the new manager.

 

The Red Sox lost because they were not as good as the Astros. They also weren't as good as the Guardians and the Yankees.

 

Yup.

[Spudboy]

@craigcalcaterra

 

It's been like an hour and no one from the Sox front office has leaked bad info about Farrell. It truly is a new era in Boston.

 

Hahahahahahaha!1!111!

 

It will be interesting to see if they say s*** about him now. I always assumed that Luchino was behind that stuff and he is gone.