Farrell

[Kimmi]

I understand the theory. I'm not one to argue with studies that show otherwise, but I tend to think line-ups matter more that the studies show they do. That being said, even if they don't matter much, a manager should do everything he can to eek out every small percentage advantage he can, and putting players in their best slots is one of the few tangible differences a manger can make.

 

Maybe I do obsess over the line-ups too much, but JF's line-ups bug me more than any other manager in recent memory.

 

I think that all the unnecessary hand wringing stems from people putting more weight/importance on line ups than they should. That said, I agree that a manager should do whatever he can to eek out every advantage. Sometimes, that may mean placing a batter in a spot he feels more comfortable in than in a spot that he seems statistically suited for.

 

As far as obsessing over line ups too much, obsess away. That's why we're here.

[Station 13]

We all know Bogey is not going well now so JF needs to treat him accordingly. Move him down or rest him. When right , Bogey can help this team, in the meanwhile JF needs to consider alternatives.

 

He has been hitting lower in the order for sometimes now. He hasn't hit a lick either (.195 since Mid July). JBJ is around that too in the same time span. Benni however is hot, and Nunez and Devers are providing the lineup with results while the aforementioned struggles.

[devildavid]

Farrell's glaring weakness as a manager is his philosophy of base running. He thinks of it as putting pressure on the defense. I see it as giving too many outs away.

[a700hitter]

Farrell's glaring weakness as a manager is his philosophy of base running. He thinks of it as putting pressure on the defense. I see it as giving too many outs away.

Once you said "thinks", you gave him too much credit.

[Nick]

Looks like Devers is learning to run bases from Hanley and Company.

[moonslav59]

I think that all the unnecessary hand wringing stems from people putting more weight/importance on line ups than they should. That said, I agree that a manager should do whatever he can to eek out every advantage. Sometimes, that may mean placing a batter in a spot he feels more comfortable in than in a spot that he seems statistically suited for.

 

As far as obsessing over line ups too much, obsess away. That's why we're here.

 

Okay, I'll take you up on the offer and let some of my OCD shine...

 

I don't think batting Bogey 3rd and Moreland 4th was to appease their comfort zones. I know Moreland did not have experience in those slots prior to this season. The "comfort" argument doesn't hold any water with Moreland. The other one, JBJ, has been jerked around batting slots more than anyone, so I doubt he feels comfortable in any slot more than another due to experience. Bogey did have experience batting 3rd before this year, and it has been his best slot over his career, but even with a higher than norm SLG batting 3rd, .457 is not what you want from your 3-6 slot hitters.

 

Here are the numbers:

 

Moreland Career

Slot PA OPS

6th 745 .709 (676 PA before this year)

7th 729 .709 (694 before this year)

5th 576 .770 (447 before this year)

8th 413 .905 (402 before this year)

9th 347 .774

4th 265 .769 (88 before this year)

3rd 57 .490

2nd 49 .582

 

2017

Slot PA OPS

4th 177 .720

5th 129 .713

6th 69 .818

7th 35 .669

8th 12 1.300

 

Now, I am not assuming every batter would have done better than Moreland in the 4 slot. He did well for us out of the gate, and to end up with a .720 and .713 OPS from the 4 and 5 slots means he must have slumped horribly for quite some time to offset that great start. Counting Devers and Nunez, we currently have 9 players with a season OPS above those two numbers.

 

 

Bogaerts also started out hot. To me, he should have started in the 1 or 2 slot due to his high OBP and low SLG. In a tiny sample size (39 PAs) Bogey has an .839 OPS batting lead-off. (.819 up 3rd) I understand his numbers batting 3rd aren’t bad at all, but his OPS is driven by his OBP NOT his SLG.

 

JBJ has bounced around the line-up. He's not been given a chance to get comfortable anywhere. Here's a look at our players by batting slots:

 

2015-2017

OPS PA Player

 

1st

.849 1459 Betts (345 OBP)

.839 39 Bogey (.410 OBP)

.813 403 Pedey (.372 OBP)

.749 121 Holt (.347 OBP)

Looks clear to me, Betts should not lead off, when we have better OBP players available, and both have worse power than Betts.)

 

2nd

.841 71 Betts

.792 980 Pedey

.752 240 Beni

.723 281 Holt

.698 271 Bogey

 

3rd

.988 91 Pedey

.819 1114 Bogey

.839 432 Papi

.845 41 Beni

.799 170 Betts

.754 59 HRam

 

4th

1.049 786 PAPi

.892 163 Betts (He should bat 2nd or 4thf or obvious reasons)

.784 545 HRam

.722 80 Beni

.720 177 Moreland

.649 68 T Shaw

 

5th

.829 773 HRam (looks like his best slot)

.720 55 Beni

.706 62 Bogey

.713 129 Moreland

.660 75 Young

.566 164 JBJ (Never gets a chance above the 5 s lot)

 

6th

1.143 39 Beni

.868 132 JBJ

.818 69 Moreland

.740 65 Holt

.758 51 HRam

.694 131 Bogey

.594 103 Young

.581 55 Leon

 

7th

.809 155 Young

.797 234 JBJ

.748 89 Swihart

.704 264 Holt

.669 35 Moreland

.661 84 Leon

.570 71 Bogey

.426 48 Vaz

 

8th

1.096 57 Young

.821 141 JBJ

.762 161 Swihart

.776 125 Bogey

.745 295 Leon

.723 65 Holt

.669 223 Vaz

 

9th

.933 92 Beni

.895 371 JBJ

.712 181 Leon

.706 90 Hernandez

.647 125 Swihart

.648 95 Holt

 

 

Here are out top OPS players from 2015-2017 (3500+ Pas) that are still on the team:

 

.846 Betts

.809 JBJ (Our 2nd best hitter never hits higher than 5th!)

.807 Pedey

.802 Young

.802 Beni

.799 HRam

.776 Bogey

.745 Moreland (This is the guy we bat 4th and 5th!)

.714 Swihart

.706 Leon

.649 Vaz

 

As streaky as JBJ has been, he’s still got a better 2017 OPS than Moreland & Bogey, yet he never bats 1-4, even when hot.

 

2017 OPS

.807 Beni (Just passed Betts today!)

.805 Betts

.784 Pedey

.780 HRam

.756 JBJ

.751 Young

.749 Moreland

.730 Bogey

 

Okay there, I got my OCD vent out of the way for the day.

[moonslav59]

Looks like Devers is learning to run bases from Hanley and Company.

 

For some reason, the game didn't tape for me today. I missed seeing a Sox game for the first time in years.

 

Can anyone fill me in on how many mental blunders we made today?

[a700hitter]

For some reason, the game didn't tape for me today. I missed seeing a Sox game for the first time in years.

 

Can anyone fill me in on how many mental blunders we made today?

Unless you had good reason to miss the game, you will get no help from me.

[moonslav59]

Unless you had good reason to miss the game, you will get no help from me.

 

I rarely watch the games in real time. Too many commercials.

 

[Spudboy]

Once you said "thinks", you gave him too much credit.

 

lulz

[Maxbialystock]

The abominable Farrell now has the Sox 5 1/2 ahead of the Yankees for the AL East and 5 games back of Houston for the best record in the AL. My guess--and I'm no expert here--is that he just might have more than two brain cells.

 

What I truly don't get is attcking a manager on a win streak when winning is normally the only important criterion for MLB managers. You win enough, you stay. You lose enough, you go.

 

Tonight first Betts and then Barnes ruined another great start by Sale, but the critics persist in saying it was really Farrell's fault. Seriously?

 

Reed and Kelly really stunk Friday, but it wasn't their fault. It was Farrell's, and that's almost a unanimous opinion on talksox.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Maxbialystock

[a700hitter]

Winning is the ultimate metric for managers. As long as Farrell wins, he stays, but sorry Max, he has two brain cells. Luckily for him there are other managers in MLB who operate with limited brain waves, and some of them win too. In 2015, a couple of Dunce Deluxes faced off in the World Series == Ned Yost and Terry Collins. Collins was over-matched in that battle of the witless.

[moonslav59]

The abominable Farrell now has the Sox 5 1/2 ahead of the Yankees for the AL East and 5 games back of Houston for the best record in the AL. My guess--and I'm no expert here--is that he just might have more than two brain cells.

 

What I truly don't get is attcking a manager on a win streak when winning is normally the only important criterion for MLB managers. You win enough, you stay. You lose enough, you go.

 

Tonight first Betts and then Barnes ruined another great start by Sale, but the critics persist in saying it was really Farrell's fault. Seriously?

 

Reed and Kelly really stunk Friday, but it wasn't their fault. It was Farrell's, and that's almost a unanimous opinion on talksox.

 

Winning doesn't change the fact that JF is a complete idiot.

 

700 is too kind in crediting him with 2 whole brain cells.

 

Just imagine if Jacoby hit an HR after JF blundered the pitching substitution he wanted.

[Maxbialystock]

Winning doesn't change the fact that JF is a complete idiot.

 

700 is too kind in crediting him with 2 whole brain cells.

 

Just imagine if Jacoby hit an HR after JF blundered the pitching substitution he wanted.

 

 

Is Girardi also an idiot? He sure mismanaged Chapman tonight.

[a700hitter]

Is Girardi also an idiot? He sure mismanaged Chapman tonight.

Funny you should mention that, because Girardi came under harsh criticism for letting Chapman fly without a net on Friday night when he was clearly imploding and he had 2 other closer quality guys in the pen in Robertson and Betances. Girardi is also a massive dope. Many Yankee fans despise the guy. I can't tell you how many times I have seen him take out starting pitchers who are cruising with pitch counts in the 80's after 5 innings and a 4 run lead because his binders tell him that the guy sucks the 3rd time through the batting order. And generally the guy does suck the 3rd time through the order because his pitch count was in the upper 90's when he started the inning. On a night when the guy was cruising and his pitch count was 80, he might have 3 or 4 or 5 more outs in him. Girardi would regularly take the guy out before any sign of trouble with the best case scenario being that he was burning up his pen. On many of those night the middle relief guys lost the game. Yes, I come down on the side of Girardi being a dope -- maybe only a moron or imbecile and not quite an idiot.

[cp176]

Farrell scares me primarily because he plays at being smart. He often tries to play by someone else's book of baseball knowledge from game to game. I cannot tell if he is a manager cut from the statistical guide book or from the old play by feel kind of guy who is just willing to roll out the ball. Batting order, lefty- righty, shifts, 7-8-and 9th inning relievers, etc. Who is he? I would feel better about him if he just wasn't interviewed I think. His team is winning! Whether it is him or our incredibly good GM(it's ok to laugh) I'm not sure I even care. I just hope that after Devers swat off Chapman, he might accept the fact that sometimes it is ok to leave a lefty in vs a lefty. You might be surprised.

[Bellhorn04]

In my opinion, being manager of a major league baseball team is almost guaranteed to make you look like a moron. Our team has won 3 championships in the last century, two managed by Francoma and one by Johnny Neuron.

[S5Dewey]

Without trying to get into the debate about John Farrell, it's worth mentioning that Maddon was completely and utterly outmanaged by Francona in the WS last year but since the Cubbies won the WS Maddon is seen by some as an innovative genius. Ugh

[Bellhorn04]

Without trying to get into the debate about John Farrell, it's worth mentioning that Maddon was completely and utterly outmanaged by Francona in the WS last year but since the Cubbies won the WS Maddon is seen by some as an innovative genius. Ugh

 

Maddon lost his marbles with how he used Chapman late in the Series but he got away with it. I think Maddon's a decent manager but like I say, managing in MLB will make you look stupid at some point. Larussa also had some sort of crazy bullpen gaffe in his final World Series, I can't remember the exact details.

[SoxnCycles]

A lousy bullpen (or even a few lousy appearances) will make any manager look like a dope.

 

I like how the manager is supposed to have half the bullpen warming up "in case" the guy on the mound starts to lose it.

[OH FOY]

Why was Moreland Pinch Hitting last night, don't you want to force the move by Girardi? Wouldn't you want a switch hitter at that point? My only question. You want Defensive change you can do it after the inning.

[BstHcpr]

He's not a situational reliever.

[Nick]

Cubs in reality benefited from playing the last two games in Cleveland. DH rule came into play. Remember that Schwarber was hot. Giving the Cubbies extra bat was significant. Guardians already was set up as a DH hitting team.

[moonslav59]

Is Girardi also an idiot? He sure mismanaged Chapman tonight.

 

I try to avoid micro-inspection of a manager's moves.

 

Chapman is one of the best RP'ers in the game. He was throwing 103 mph. He's not let up an HR all year or let a lefty take him deep in 6 years. I can't blame Giradi for Devers' HR anymore than I can blame JF for Betts' dropped fly ball against the wall.

 

Sure, managers are by and large judged by winning or losing, and we're winning right now, but this team is making 2 or more mental mistakes or blunders every game, and that's going to bite us in the ass someday. I just hope it's not the 7th game of a playoff series,

but can't we all imagine us saying, "It's fitting that we lost because a player forgot how many outs there were. We've been making these fundamental mistakes all year long."

 

My other bone of contention with JF was what I called a lack of "fire and desire." I think Devers and Nunez have sparked this team upon their arrival. I'm not giving JF credit for that, but at least that area seems to have improved enough for me.

[a700hitter]

Farrell scares me primarily because he plays at being smart. He often tries to play by someone else's book of baseball knowledge from game to game. I cannot tell if he is a manager cut from the statistical guide book or from the old play by feel kind of guy who is just willing to roll out the ball. Batting order, lefty- righty, shifts, 7-8-and 9th inning relievers, etc. Who is he? I would feel better about him if he just wasn't interviewed I think. His team is winning! Whether it is him or our incredibly good GM(it's ok to laugh) I'm not sure I even care. I just hope that after Devers swat off Chapman, he might accept the fact that sometimes it is ok to leave a lefty in vs a lefty. You might be surprised.

Managers that manage by the book and the stats on one day and by their observations and fit on the next day are the worst. Terry Collins did that in 2015 World Series. Ahead in game 4 in the 8th inning he went to Tyler Clippard and let him blow up the game and he brought in Familia only after the tying run was in scoring position. The tying run scored against Familia without the benefit of a hit. Collins explanation after the game was that "the book" is that Clippard pitches the 8th and Familia pitches the 9th.

 

in game 5, Harvey threw 8 shutout innings and begged Collins to start the 9th. He walked the lead off hitter. He was clearly gasses and has lost his command. Terry sat on his hands and amazingly let Harvey face another batter who doubles. Only then did Collins go to his closer who once again got credited with a blown save before he had given up a hit. My good friend and Mets fan started screaming "Where was the cook from last night! Terry mist have lost his book. What about the book." He was right Collins picked the wrong night to go by the book and the wrong night to ignore the book and he had blown the World Series. That World Series was thrown away by Collins in a shameful display of managerial stupidity.

[Slasher9]

this reed guy cant handle the Boston pressure. looks to be a chocker like price.

Mr. Farrell - i only want to see Reed in blowout games for the foreseeable future.

thank you.

[moonslav59]

this reed guy cant handle the Boston pressure. looks to be a chocker like price.

Mr. Farrell - i only want to see Reed in blowout games for the foreseeable future.

thank you.

 

Talk about tiny sample sizes.

 

The guy was a closer. He knows pressure.

 

He comes to a new team, a new role and he fails out of the gate.

 

He deserves a chance in high leverage again soon.

[SoxnCycles]

Talk about tiny sample sizes.

 

The guy was a closer. He knows pressure.

 

He comes to a new team, a new role and he fails out of the gate.

 

He deserves a chance in high leverage again soon.

 

He'll get another chance, but that doesn't I'm going to enjoy ewatching it.

[moonslav59]

He'll get another chance, but that doesn't I'm going to enjoy ewatching it.

 

I'll be more worried than if Kimbrel was coming in, but I also have little faith in Barnes, Hembree and the returning Kelly (for now as well.

[Slasher9]

Talk about tiny sample sizes.

 

The guy was a closer. He knows pressure.

 

He comes to a new team, a new role and he fails out of the gate.

 

He deserves a chance in high leverage again soon.

 

how about we give him some low leverage opportunities for a few games?