Sox get Sale

[moonslav59]

See, this is why I wasn't too broken up about losing a lot of our scouting and development people. Our bust rate has been embarrassingly high in the last few years, especially on the pitching front. I'm personally just fine with losing those people and bringing in new ones under the circumstances.

 

I totally disagree, except for maybe the pitching part.

 

Not only have we acquired more top level prospects than most teams, especially drafting as low as we have for the last few years, I feel our top prospects have succeeded at a much higher rate than the average.

 

We've had a few duds like everyone else, but we've had a lot of players who have done well.

 

I can go back to 2003-2005 where 17 or more guys from the Sox top 20 lists all made it to MLB and at least had some limited success:

HanRan, Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Pabelbon, Buchholz, Lowrie, Freddie Sanchez, Jorge de la Rosa, Anibal Sanchez, Doubront, Shoppach, David Murphy, Brandon Moss, Delcarmen, Meredith

 

Yes, the 2009-2011 era had some misses, but many were never highly rated nationally. Westmoreland's case was unfortunate. Kelly and Lars were big misses, and Kalish, Middy, Ranaudo and others were disappointments, but Rizzo has done great and Reddick, Iggy, Bard and Wilson had some moments. Plus, we added Bogey, barnes and Swihart to the fall rankings in 2011.

 

Fall 2012:

1) Bogey

2) Barnes

3) JBJ

4) Webster (got us Miley, who got us C Smith)

5) Brentz-bust

6) Cecchini - bust

7) Swihart

8) Owens

9) Iggy

10) D Britton

14) A Wilson

 

2013:

1 Bogey

2 JBJ

3 Cecchini

4 Owens

5 Barnes

6 Ranaudo (got us R Ross)

7 Webster

8 Swihart

9 T Ball

10 Betts

13 Vaz

14 Margot

 

2014

1 Betts

2 Swihart

3 Margot

4 Devers

5 ERod

6 Barnes

7 Owens

8 Johnson

9 Vazquez

10 Chavis

14 Kopech

17 T Shaw

 

2015

1 Moncada

2 Beni

3 Espi

4 Devers

5 Kopech

6 Guerra

7 Travis

7 Owens

8 Johnson

9 Chavis

10 Marrero

12 Basabe

13 L Allen

17 Hernandez

18 Dubon

 

[harmony]

As noted, the Chris Sale trade came on the sixth anniversary of the Red Sox trade for Adrian Gonzalez, who posted a career-high 6.1 fWAR in his first Boston season.

 

I suspect the package of Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz includes the equivalent of one Anthony Rizzo, one Casey Kelly and one Reymond Fuentes.

 

At the time of his December 2010 trade to Boston, Adrian Gonzalez was one year older than Chris Sale is today. Gonzalez came with one year of team control at $6.2 million before signing a seven-year, $154 million extension in April 2011.

[moonslav59]

I suspect the package of Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz includes the equivalent of one Anthony Rizzo, one Casey Kelly and one Reymond Fuentes.

 

While Kelly was soxprospects #1 for a little over a year, Rizzo never got higher than #3 (with Kalish or Anderson ahead of him). Fuentes never got higher than #13. in BA's 2010 rankings, they had Westmoreland 21, Kelly 24, Reddick 75, Anderson 87 and Rizzo not even ranked. Not only was Kelly never close to Moncada in ranking, he wasn't even our highest ranked prospect.

 

Kelly made it to 31st to start the 2011 season. Fuentes and Rizzo were unranked.

 

Conversely, Moncada was #1 in all MLB. Kopech was #5 all season on soxprospects, Basabe made it as high as #7 and Diaz to #21.

[harmony]

I suspect the package of Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz includes the equivalent of one Anthony Rizzo, one Casey Kelly and one Reymond Fuentes.

 

While Kelly was soxprospects #1 for a little over a year, Rizzo never got higher than #3 (with Kalish or Anderson ahead of him). Fuentes never got higher than #13. in BA's 2010 rankings, they had Westmoreland 21, Kelly 24, Reddick 75, Anderson 87 and Rizzo not even ranked. Not only was Kelly never close to Moncada in ranking, he wasn't even our highest ranked prospect.

 

Kelly made it to 31st to start the 2011 season. Fuentes and Rizzo were unranked.

 

Conversely, Moncada was #1 in all MLB. Kopech was #5 all season on soxprospects, Basabe made it as high as #7 and Diaz to #21.

My speculative post looks forward, not backward to prospect rankings.

[moonslav59]

My speculative post looks forward, not backward to prospect rankings.

 

Mine looked backward.

[jacksonianmarch]

The haul was steep. But you also cannot equate the performances of the prospects to what it would have been in your system. Moncada is probably headed for a full AAA season. Kopech will be developed as a starter. In the RS system, Moncada would be rushed if there was a need and Kopech would probably have cut his teeth as a reliever if they needed it. The CWS will let them both develop on their own timetable so if they become stars, it's not at all a major likelihood that that outcome would have been the same had they stayed

[sk7326]

See, this is why I wasn't too broken up about losing a lot of our scouting and development people. Our bust rate has been embarrassingly high in the last few years, especially on the pitching front. I'm personally just fine with losing those people and bringing in new ones under the circumstances.

 

This is simply not true relative to other teams - and moreover, when those people are producing All-Star SS's and Top 10 overall player, who cares. The point is to produce stars - it's the venture capitalist idea. You're better than this.

[sk7326]

I am not saying that our GMs NEVER made good decisions. There were many: Bogaerts, Betts...and yes, Rizzo. But they whiffed on many as well. Some of our top prospects simply didn't pan out, despite the hype. I remember I couldn't wait to see Ranaudo pitch for us. He had a 9.48 ERA in 9 games for the Rangers and WS. Too many of our top prospects ended up sucking. If Moncada and/or Kopech end up in that boat, then we essentially stole Sale. Time will tell.

 

Did they whiff? The assumption is that their hit rate was low - when all you know are the absolute numbers. That is a dubious assumption at best - certainly the way the front office got raided year after year shows how low the hit rate is.

[FredLynn]

I totally disagree, except for maybe the pitching part.

 

Not only have we acquired more top level prospects than most teams, especially drafting as low as we have for the last few years, I feel our top prospects have succeeded at a much higher rate than the average.

 

We've had a few duds like everyone else, but we've had a lot of players who have done well.

 

I can go back to 2003-2005 where 17 or more guys from the Sox top 20 lists all made it to MLB and at least had some limited success:

HanRan, Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Pabelbon, Buchholz, Lowrie, Freddie Sanchez, Jorge de la Rosa, Anibal Sanchez, Doubront, Shoppach, David Murphy, Brandon Moss, Delcarmen, Meredith

 

Yes, the 2009-2011 era had some misses, but many were never highly rated nationally. Westmoreland's case was unfortunate. Kelly and Lars were big misses, and Kalish, Middy, Ranaudo and others were disappointments, but Rizzo has done great and Reddick, Iggy, Bard and Wilson had some moments. Plus, we added Bogey, barnes and Swihart to the fall rankings in 2011.

 

Fall 2012:

1) Bogey

2) Barnes

3) JBJ

4) Webster (got us Miley, who got us C Smith)

5) Brentz-bust

6) Cecchini - bust

7) Swihart

8) Owens

9) Iggy

10) D Britton

14) A Wilson

 

2013:

1 Bogey

2 JBJ

3 Cecchini

4 Owens

5 Barnes

6 Ranaudo (got us R Ross)

7 Webster

8 Swihart

9 T Ball

10 Betts

13 Vaz

14 Margot

 

2014

1 Betts

2 Swihart

3 Margot

4 Devers

5 ERod

6 Barnes

7 Owens

8 Johnson

9 Vazquez

10 Chavis

14 Kopech

17 T Shaw

 

2015

1 Moncada

2 Beni

3 Espi

4 Devers

5 Kopech

6 Guerra

7 Travis

7 Owens

8 Johnson

9 Chavis

10 Marrero

12 Basabe

13 L Allen

17 Hernandez

18 Dubon

 

 

Many of the guys on your list were either very marginal players or likely busts. Just to name a few, Webster, Owens, Shaw, Cecchini, Vasquez (is it too soon to call him a bust?)....Johnson etc etc Our whiff rate is pretty high. It remains to be seen about many many others, including Kopech and Moncada. Based on our track record, as Wilbur pointed out in his article today, its hard to have a lot of confidence in our ability to assess talent.

[moonslav59]

The haul was steep. But you also cannot equate the performances of the prospects to what it would have been in your system. Moncada is probably headed for a full AAA season. Kopech will be developed as a starter. In the RS system, Moncada would be rushed if there was a need and Kopech would probably have cut his teeth as a reliever if they needed it. The CWS will let them both develop on their own timetable so if they become stars, it's not at all a major likelihood that that outcome would have been the same had they stayed

 

If we had an opening at 2B, I think Moncada would have started the season in the bigs opening day.

 

He probably will for the CWS.

 

Kopech may see ML action late next year, but mid to late 2018 is probably the realistic timeline.

[moonslav59]

Many of the guys on your list were either very marginal players or likely busts. Just to name a few, Webster, Owens, Shaw, Cecchini, Vasquez (is it too soon to call him a bust?)....Johnson etc etc Our whiff rate is pretty high. It remains to be seen about many many others, including Kopech and Moncada. Based on our track record, as Wilbur pointed out in his article today, its hard to have a lot of confidence in our ability to assess talent.

 

Please, take a look at other teams' past top 10 prospect lists. Ours has had plus success when compared to the norm. Plus, we've had lower picks than most teams.

 

Many of our best prospects have done well for other teams, but they were products of our system.

 

The only area we lack in has been pitching.

[moonslav59]

Many of the guys on your list were either very marginal players or likely busts. Just to name a few, Webster, Owens, Shaw, Cecchini, Vasquez (is it too soon to call him a bust?)....Johnson etc etc Our whiff rate is pretty high. It remains to be seen about many many others, including Kopech and Moncada. Based on our track record, as Wilbur pointed out in his article today, its hard to have a lot of confidence in our ability to assess talent.

 

Look at 2012, since that was far enough away to gauge success a little bit. Yes, many failed, but how many teams come up with guys like Bogey, JBJ, Iggy, Swihart, Wilson and Barnes out of their top 10?

 

Sure, some have done better, but in my opinion, I think we've done better than most, and 2012 wasn't even close to our best prospect list since Henry came to town.

 

Then, when you factor in our lower picks than most, we're clearly doing better than the norm, even counting the lack of pitching.

[Hugh2]

My speculative post looks forward, not backward to prospect rankings.

 

That doesn't make sense because Moncada and Kopech are about on the up as anyone out there. Kopech especially. I'd be willing to bet his ranking significantly increases in the pre 2017 rankings. Kelly was a two way prospect further away, and Rizzo was a great prospect in hindsight but at the time he was nowhere near as valuable as Kopech is now. Also if we want to dream on the future, adding another pitcher who can reach 100 in Victor Diaz sweetens the pot too.

 

Kopech/Moncada >>>>> Kelly/Rizzo. Fuentes is probably on par with Luis Alexander Basabe, although I could see an argument putting him higher but that might only be due to the 1st round draft pick shine.

 

If anyone thinks the cost for a 1st baseman ends up being the same as arguably the best pitcher in the American league then the Red Sox just got the steal of the century.

 

Perhaps we should look at this differently. Does Moncada/Kopech/Basabe/Diaz equal Kelly/Rizzo/Fuentes???? I'd say no. If people knew Rizzo was going to be now that makes this package look even better.

[Hugh2]

comparing different years top 10 lists can be very very misleading and is a poor exercise. Will Middlebrooks was our top prospect at one point, but if he was in the system at the end of last year he'd likely barely crack the top 10. We all know prospects bust, and there is a certain level of risk, but you have to have a little perspective.

 

Would it be fair to compare the Sox 2010 draft to it's 2011 draft? Would you put Vitek/Brentz/Ranaudo/Workman/Cecchini on par with Swihart/Owens/JBJ/Betts/Barnes/Shaw???? Sure the 2011 had busts too. You have more busts than hits in the best of drafts but it's still unfair to compare just as it is to compare systems of different years with varying degrees of strength if the standard is how many of these guys will (or better yet should) succeed.

[sk7326]

Many of the guys on your list were either very marginal players or likely busts. Just to name a few, Webster, Owens, Shaw, Cecchini, Vasquez (is it too soon to call him a bust?)....Johnson etc etc Our whiff rate is pretty high. It remains to be seen about many many others, including Kopech and Moncada. Based on our track record, as Wilbur pointed out in his article today, its hard to have a lot of confidence in our ability to assess talent.

 

Did Wilbur do this with the other 29 teams? This sort of analysis (and obviously the Red Sox are not perfect) is terribly myopic in its focus.

[sk7326]

Look at 2012, since that was far enough away to gauge success a little bit. Yes, many failed, but how many teams come up with guys like Bogey, JBJ, Iggy, Swihart, Wilson and Barnes out of their top 10?

 

Sure, some have done better, but in my opinion, I think we've done better than most, and 2012 wasn't even close to our best prospect list since Henry came to town.

 

Then, when you factor in our lower picks than most, we're clearly doing better than the norm, even counting the lack of pitching.

 

For a team with the Red Sox resources - the purpose of the system (as far as producing kids for us) is stars. There are a myriad of ways to find worker bees. And the Red Sox have consciously focused on upside, upside, upside. That the system has produced a Betts and Bogaerts is way more significant than the number of Kyle Weilands who did not go anywhere. The vast majority of teams do not spit that out.

[FredLynn]

Please, take a look at other teams' past top 10 prospect lists. Ours has had plus success when compared to the norm. Plus, we've had lower picks than most teams.

 

Many of our best prospects have done well for other teams, but they were products of our system.

 

The only area we lack in has been pitching.

 

Starting pitching, in particular. I haven't looked at other teams because my comments were mostly in reference to the acquisition of Sale for guys who are prospects. Maybe in comparison to other teams we have done OK; maybe not. It would take more time than I am willing to dedicate to it to find out. But when you look at a proven ace being traded for prospects who may or may not pan out (and as I have said, most of our prospects have not worked out, including some very highly rated ones) this has better than even odds of being a steal IMO. Not sure if I posted the link to Wilbur's article from today's Boston.com here yet, but here it is: http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/12/07/dombrowski-didnt-pay-too-much-sale.

[harmony]

That doesn't make sense because Moncada and Kopech are about on the up as anyone out there. Kopech especially. I'd be willing to bet his ranking significantly increases in the pre 2017 rankings. Kelly was a two way prospect further away, and Rizzo was a great prospect in hindsight but at the time he was nowhere near as valuable as Kopech is now. Also if we want to dream on the future, adding another pitcher who can reach 100 in Victor Diaz sweetens the pot too.

 

Kopech/Moncada >>>>> Kelly/Rizzo. Fuentes is probably on par with Luis Alexander Basabe, although I could see an argument putting him higher but that might only be due to the 1st round draft pick shine.

 

If anyone thinks the cost for a 1st baseman ends up being the same as arguably the best pitcher in the American league then the Red Sox just got the steal of the century.

 

Perhaps we should look at this differently. Does Moncada/Kopech/Basabe/Diaz equal Kelly/Rizzo/Fuentes???? I'd say no. If people knew Rizzo was going to be now that makes this package look even better.

I merely speculated that down the road the most productive player might not be the prospect who was ranked the highest. Of the three prospects traded for Adrian Gonzalez, only Anthony Rizzo has developed into a productive Major Leaguer ... and a highly productive one at that. The other two -- top-ranked Casey Kelly and Reymond Fuentes -- have not.

 

The Chris Sale trade will look good if only one of the players traded evolves into a productive Major Leaguer ... and in the likely event Sale produces.

[Hugh2]

I merely speculated that down the road the most productive player might not be the prospect who was ranked the highest. Of the three prospects traded for Adrian Gonzalez, only Anthony Rizzo has developed into a productive Major Leaguer ... and a highly productive one at that. The other two -- top-ranked Casey Kelly and Reymond Fuentes -- have not.

 

The Chris Sale trade will look good if only one of the players traded evolves into a productive Major Leaguer ... and in the likely event Sale produces.

 

ahhh ok gotcha, that makes much more sense to me.

[notin]

Starting pitching, in particular. I haven't looked at other teams because my comments were mostly in reference to the acquisition of Sale for guys who are prospects. Maybe in comparison to other teams we have done OK; maybe not. It would take more time than I am willing to dedicate to it to find out. But when you look at a proven ace being traded for prospects who may or may not pan out (and as I have said, most of our prospects have not worked out, including some very highly rated ones) this has better than even odds of being a steal IMO. Not sure if I posted the link to Wilbur's article from today's Boston.com here yet, but here it is: http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/12/07/dombrowski-didnt-pay-too-much-sale.

 

I wouldn't put much faith in Eric Wilbur's assessment of anything.

 

Wilbur, like many people, doesn't understand the normal attrition rate of prospects, even top ones. No team sees all of their top ten make the majors for any prolonged length of time, let alone become stars.

 

Especially recently, the Sox have excelled in this area. They have four starters from their farm with less than 3 years in the majors, and only Benintendi has yet to be an all star (for hopefully obvious reasons). The Cubs are the team everyone loves as young talent, but in their lineup and rotation how many prospects have become starters for them? Just Bryant and Contreras. And unless Baez starts, they will have as many Sox farm products as their own, thanks to Rizzo and Lester.

 

Most top ten lists really only yield a handful of major leaguers, and even fewer bona fide stars. Even the BA Top 100 list.contains maybe 10 all star caliber players annually. And three times that many from any list any year will never make the majors beyond maybe a September call up. And that is the list of the best of the best.

 

So yes, we will have prospects bust. So will everyone else. And that's ok. The Sox have 6 levels of minor league baseball feeding a singular 25 man roster, like every team. But in the past few seasons the Sox minor league teams have been doing a great job feeding their MLB team. And deciding they aren't just because Lars Anderson and Casey Kelly didn't pan out doesn't change this. If you think this is the case, why keep Benintendi? Surely he will flop, because Steve Lomasney did.

 

Now where is a700, who tried to call me out a week ago when I pretty much Sox fans would react exactly like this?

[Slasher9]

another reason this trade is awesome....our $31MM per year x 6 more years "Ace" can now be pushed down to #3.

[moonslav59]

Starting pitching, in particular. I haven't looked at other teams because my comments were mostly in reference to the acquisition of Sale for guys who are prospects. Maybe in comparison to other teams we have done OK; maybe not. It would take more time than I am willing to dedicate to it to find out. But when you look at a proven ace being traded for prospects who may or may not pan out (and as I have said, most of our prospects have not worked out, including some very highly rated ones) this has better than even odds of being a steal IMO. Not sure if I posted the link to Wilbur's article from today's Boston.com here yet, but here it is: http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/12/07/dombrowski-didnt-pay-too-much-sale.

 

There's a simpler way to do it. Take all the Sox homegrown players in MLB and form a team. Would that team be better than average or not?

 

I say it would be way better than average, before you look at the pitching, and still better overall counting the pitching.

 

Hell, just our homegrown ex-players would be pretty competitive:

 

C Federowicz, Lavarnway

1B Rizzo

2B Moncada, Lowrie

SS Iggy, Dubon, Guerra

3B Shaw/Middy

LF Margot, Nava

CF Ellsbury, Fuentes

RF Reddick

DH B Moss

SP Lester, Doubront, A Sanchez, Kopech, Montas, Masterson, Kelly, Espinoza

RP Papelbon, Wilson, Aro, Light, Strickland, Ranaudo

 

Combine that with this homegrown team:

 

C: Vazquez/Swihart

1B: HanRam, Travis, Longhi

2B: Pedroia

3B: Devers, Dalbec, Chavis

SS: Bogaerts, Marrero, Chatham

LF: Benintendi

CF: Bradley

RF: Betts

DH: Castillo/Witte

SP: Owens, Johnson, Groome, Raudes, TBall

RP: Barnes, N Ramirez, Workman, Ysla, Martin, Jerez

 

and you get this:

 

C: Vaz-Swihart

1B: Rizzo

2B: Pedey, Moncada

3B: Bogey, Shaw, Devers

SS: Iggy, Lowrie, Dubon

LF: Beni, Reddick

CF: JBJ, Ellsbury

RF: Betts, Margot

DH: HanRam, B Moss

SP: Lester, A Sanchez, Doubront, Masterson, Montas, Espinoza, Kopech, Groome

RP: Papelbon, A Wilson, Strickland, Barnes, Ranaudo, Aro, Light, N Ramirez

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't put much faith in Eric Wilbur's assessment of anything.

 

Wilbur, like many people, doesn't understand the normal attrition rate of prospects, even top ones. No team sees all of their top ten make the majors for any prolonged length of time, let alone become stars.

 

Especially recently, the Sox have excelled in this area. They have four starters from their farm with less than 3 years in the majors, and only Benintendi has yet to be an all star (for hopefully obvious reasons). The Cubs are the team everyone loves as young talent, but in their lineup and rotation how many prospects have become starters for them? Just Bryant and Contreras. And unless Baez starts, they will have as many Sox farm products as their own, thanks to Rizzo and Lester.

 

Most top ten lists really only yield a handful of major leaguers, and even fewer bona fide stars. Even the BA Top 100 list.contains maybe 10 all star caliber players annually. And three times that many from any list any year will never make the majors beyond maybe a September call up. And that is the list of the best of the best.

 

So yes, we will have prospects bust. So will everyone else. And that's ok. The Sox have 6 levels of minor league baseball feeding a singular 25 man roster, like every team. But in the past few seasons the Sox minor league teams have been doing a great job feeding their MLB team. And deciding they aren't just because Lars Anderson and Casey Kelly didn't pan out doesn't change this. If you think this is the case, why keep Benintendi? Surely he will flop, because Steve Lomasney did.

 

Now where is a700, who tried to call me out a week ago when I pretty much Sox fans would react exactly like this?

 

Thank you for the great response.

 

These two rankings lists may be two of the best in recent MLB history:

 

2015-2016 (assuming no trades)

1) Moncada

2) Beni

3) Margot

4) Espinoza

5) ERod (not first acquired by Sox)

6) Devers

7) Kopech

8) Guerra

9) Basabe

10) Hernandez-T Shaw

(This, after graduating a few players earlier than maybe they could have been: Bogey, Betts, JBJ, Swihart, Vaz

 

2005-2006 (assuming no trades)

1. Lester

2. HanRam

3. Pedroia

4. Papelbon

5. Ellsbury

6. Buchholz

7. A Sanchez

8. Shoppach

9. B Moss

10. D Murphy, J Lowrie, Delcarmen, Masterson

(This after just graduating Youkilis, Freddie Sanchez & Jorge de la Rosa!)

 

[moonslav59]

another reason this trade is awesome....our $31MM per year x 6 more years "Ace" can now be pushed down to #3.

 

I've always viewed building the rotation from the top in this way.

 

Sale now makes a Cy Young winner our #2!

 

Sale now makes our $31M man our #3.

 

Sale now makes ERod our #4.

 

Sale now makes Wright our #5.

 

Sale now adds Pomeranz to our pen and SP'er depth.

 

Sale now moves Buch down one notch on the rotation depth chart, and a more likely striong contributor to the pen, which needs help replacing the innings given by Ziegler, Uehara, Tazawa and others..

[FredLynn]

I've always viewed building the rotation from the top in this way.

 

Sale now makes a Cy Young winner our #2!

 

Sale now makes our $31M man our #3.

 

Sale now makes ERod our #4.

 

Sale now makes Wright our #5.

 

Sale now adds Pomeranz to our pen and SP'er depth.

 

Sale now moves Buch down one notch on the rotation depth chart, and a more likely striong contributor to the pen, which needs help replacing the innings given by Ziegler, Uehara, Tazawa and others..

 

SSS, but in his last five games Buchholz had an ERA as a SP of 3.14. He is capable of doing that. I would not rule him out of being in the starting rotation when the season starts. Pom, Wright, and Buchholz should compete for the final opening day SP slot. It should not be handed to one of those guys.

[a700hitter]

I wouldn't put much faith in Eric Wilbur's assessment of anything.

 

Wilbur, like many people, doesn't understand the normal attrition rate of prospects, even top ones. No team sees all of their top ten make the majors for any prolonged length of time, let alone become stars.

 

Especially recently, the Sox have excelled in this area. They have four starters from their farm with less than 3 years in the majors, and only Benintendi has yet to be an all star (for hopefully obvious reasons). The Cubs are the team everyone loves as young talent, but in their lineup and rotation how many prospects have become starters for them? Just Bryant and Contreras. And unless Baez starts, they will have as many Sox farm products as their own, thanks to Rizzo and Lester.

 

Most top ten lists really only yield a handful of major leaguers, and even fewer bona fide stars. Even the BA Top 100 list.contains maybe 10 all star caliber players annually. And three times that many from any list any year will never make the majors beyond maybe a September call up. And that is the list of the best of the best.

 

So yes, we will have prospects bust. So will everyone else. And that's ok. The Sox have 6 levels of minor league baseball feeding a singular 25 man roster, like every team. But in the past few seasons the Sox minor league teams have been doing a great job feeding their MLB team. And deciding they aren't just because Lars Anderson and Casey Kelly didn't pan out doesn't change this. If you think this is the case, why keep Benintendi? Surely he will flop, because Steve Lomasney did.

 

Now where is a700, who tried to call me out a week ago when I pretty much Sox fans would react exactly like this?

I am not seeing any fan reaction, just an article by a sportswriter who liked the trade. Not what you predicted/projected at all. Anyway, don't waste my time again with your BS. You went off the rails the last time, so f*** off.

[Spudboy]

lol

[Hugh2]

This rotation has so much potential. As it stands it will be among the best in baseball with some good health. Now just imagine if Erod takes a step forward? if Wright wasn't a 1 year wonder? or if after one full year of starting Pomeranz is much more durable and looks like the #2 we traded for?

[Kimmi]

Tomasse nailed it in his article at WEEI yesterday. The title says it all.

 

IT'S POSSIBLE TO LIKE CHRIS SALE TRADE, BUT HATE WHAT IT REPRESENTS

 

It's almost like he was in my head today when he wrote this. My sentiments exactly.

[a700hitter]

Tomasse nailed it in his article at WEEI yesterday. The title says it all.

 

IT'S POSSIBLE TO LIKE CHRIS SALE TRADE, BUT HATE WHAT IT REPRESENTS

 

It's almost like he was in my head today when he wrote this. My sentiments exactly.

If it represents winning, I don't hate it.