2016-2017 Offseason Trade Speculation Thread

[moonslav59]

That will not get you all three of those men. That might just be enough for quintana alone, however, depending on whether the White Sox are in even the slightest way interested in moving Quintana, of course I will remind you yet AGAIN that there's no indication of this whatsoever..

 

I think JBJ, Moncada, Swihart & Hembree would get us Sale and Robertson. I'd prefer Quintana & Robertson.

 

Maybe if we added 5 years of Shaw & Owens each, we could get 1 year of Frazier added to the package.

[moonslav59]

This is realistic. I would jump at it if I were the ChiSox.

 

If we then added Beltran as DH and LF depth, we'd be looking sweet for the next 2 years anyways.

[Dojji]

Not sure what your fascination is with Robertson TBPH. He's decent, but there are others who do what he does better.

[moonslav59]

Not sure what your fascination is with Robertson TBPH. He's decent, but there are others who do what he does better.

 

He's better than any setup guy we got.

 

He had an off season, so maybe we can "buy low" on him. He had a WHIP of 0.932 in 2015 and under 1.10 the two previous years. (He was over 1.300 last year and makes $13M next year, so I don't think we need to give much to get a decent back-up closer.)

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I think JBJ, Moncada, Swihart & Hembree would get us Sale and Robertson. I'd prefer Quintana & Robertson.

 

The White Sox would do this; I wouldn't want the Red Sox to make this trade. If I'm including Bradley, I'm unwilling to add one of the best prospects in baseball to the trade. I'll include some other pieces along with Bradley but not Moncada.

 

There is talk that the Mets would trade J.Bruce if they resign Cespedes. I wonder if the Red Sox would have an interest in Bruce? The Red Sox and Mets match up pretty well for a trade especially if the Mets would be willing to expand the trade to include an SP. I presume the Mets would be interested in Bradley as well as Swihart. I would only include Bradley in a trade for an SP.

[moonslav59]

If we could also sign Beltran, I think I'd do it: trade JBJ, Moncada, Swihart, Owens & Hembree for Quintana, Robertson & Frazier.

 

We'd be way over the luxury limit, so we'd probably trade Buchholz for a good RP'er to save some tax money.

 

Maybe we'd try and trade Pablo and save $6-9M a year that way.

[Wade Boggs]

The White Sox would do this; I wouldn't want the Red Sox to make this trade. If I'm including Bradley, I'm unwilling to add one of the best prospects in baseball to the trade. I'll include some other pieces along with Bradley but not Moncada.

 

There is talk that the Mets would trade J.Bruce if they resign Cespedes. I wonder if the Red Sox would have an interest in Bruce? The Red Sox and Mets match up pretty well for a trade especially if the Mets would be willing to expand the trade to include an SP. I presume the Mets would be interested in Bradley as well as Swihart. I would only include Bradley in a trade for an SP.

 

The Mets from what the rumors have been saying have no interest in trading any of their Big 4 pitchers.

 

Thor, Degroom, Harvey , Martz. So any deal the Sox/ Mets matching up is unlikely to happen IMO

[Wade Boggs]

If we could also sign Beltran, I think I'd do it: trade JBJ, Moncada, Swihart, Owens & Hembree for Quintana, Robertson & Frazier.

 

We'd be way over the luxury limit, so we'd probably trade Buchholz for a good RP'er to save some tax money.

 

Maybe we'd try and trade Pablo and save $6-9M a year that way.

 

I think the Red Sox are more interested in Sale. Don't get me wrong Quintana is very good as well. They want Sale. Don't believe that stuff they have no interest. They do.

 

To CHW: JBJ , Erod, Swihart , Holt. The reason for Holt is if they peddle Frazier they can use Holt there sometimes.

 

To BOS : Sale... Have no interest in Robertson still owed 24 m over to years. Your paying him 12 m to set up. Plus he didn't have the best of years last year.

 

The White Sox I doubt would move Sale/ Quintana with out getting a high end pitching prospect back or a decent young or established starter back. That would be IMO Pom or Erod. Owens has zero value just as a throw in at this point. Hembree has very little value as well. The White Sox might bite on them two as a pitcher going over there. The chances of this all happening is unlikely.

[a700hitter]

I'm thinking JBJ, Swihart and Moncada (plus scraps) for Quintana, Robertson & Frazier

Replace Quintana with Sale and drop Robertson and I think you have a very equal trade.

[Meh]

The White Sox would do this; I wouldn't want the Red Sox to make this trade. If I'm including Bradley, I'm unwilling to add one of the best prospects in baseball to the trade. I'll include some other pieces along with Bradley but not Moncada.

 

There is talk that the Mets would trade J.Bruce if they resign Cespedes. I wonder if the Red Sox would have an interest in Bruce? The Red Sox and Mets match up pretty well for a trade especially if the Mets would be willing to expand the trade to include an SP. I presume the Mets would be interested in Bradley as well as Swihart. I would only include Bradley in a trade for an SP.

 

I'm pretty sure I read the White Sox wanted a package like JBJ, one of Moncada or AB, Devers, and ERod for just Sale. Which is pretty realistic. I think the Astros end up with Sale if anyone does.

 

Something like Martes, Tucker, Paulino, Cameron, and Fiers/McHugh.

[a700hitter]

[h=2]Yankees Release Nathan Eovaldi, Two Others[/h]By Jeff Todd | November 28, 2016 at 4:34pm CDT

The Yankees have released veteran right-hander Nathan Eovaldi, per a club announcement. Also cut loose were southpaw Joe Mantiply and righty Nick Rumbelow. All three pitchers were designated for assignment ten days ago, and obviously no trades or claims were in the offing.

[Wade Boggs]

Replace Quintana with Sale and drop Robertson and I think you have a very equal trade.

 

I disagree . I hope your right. But I think the White Sox want a young controllable pitcher back. I like Quintana but they may keep him.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The Mets from what the rumors have been saying have no interest in trading any of their Big 4 pitchers.

 

Thor, Degroom, Harvey , Martz. So any deal the Sox/ Mets matching up is unlikely to happen IMO

 

Bradley, Pomeranz, and Swihart for deGrom, Bruce, and a prospect. In turn, the Red Sox sign C.Rasmus to platoon with C.Young in LF.

 

I think that deal is reasonably fair, and make sense to a certain extent, but I also think Boggs is right: the Mets are unlikely to trade deGrom or any of their top 4 starters.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I'm pretty sure I read the White Sox wanted a package like JBJ, one of Moncada or AB, Devers, and ERod for just Sale. Which is pretty realistic.

 

Maybe so, but I wouldn't want the Red Sox to make that trade. At some point, over the next several years, Rodriguez could surpass Sale as the better pitcher, kind of like how A.Rizzo eventually surpassed A.Gonzalez as the better player.

[Spudboy]

[h=2]Yankees Release Nathan Eovaldi, Two Others[/h]By Jeff Todd | November 28, 2016 at 4:34pm CDT

The Yankees have released veteran right-hander Nathan Eovaldi, per a club announcement. Also cut loose were southpaw Joe Mantiply and righty Nick Rumbelow. All three pitchers were designated for assignment ten days ago, and obviously no trades or claims were in the offing.

 

Is Eovaldi worth a look? As Depth?

[Bellhorn04]

Is Eovaldi worth a look? As Depth?

 

TJ surgery - he'll miss the entire 2017 season.

[cp176]

Maybe so, but I wouldn't want the Red Sox to make that trade. At some point, over the next several years, Rodriguez could surpass Sale as the better pitcher, kind of like how A.Rizzo eventually surpassed A.Gonzalez as the better player.

 

I really doubt that E-Rod surpasses Sale as the better pitcher but I still would not do this deal. I think that this team could be fine without the type of upgrade that he might provide. I think that we would be giving up too much. Some absolutely proven talent and a pretty good sized heap of some right on the doorstep. If chicago truly wants what we have, I bet that they will let us know. We are dealing from strength and have no need to grovel.

[Dojji]

There's two ways E-Rod coulr surpass Sale, both distinctly possible. I don't think I have to elaborate what those two possibilities are.

[harmony]

There's two ways E-Rod coulr surpass Sale, both distinctly possible. I don't think I have to elaborate what those two possibilities are.

Steamer projects Eduardo Rodriguez with a 2017 WAR of 1.7 and an ERA of 4.31 in 24 starts:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13164&position=P

 

Rodriguez could be Chris Sale or Felix Doubront.

[Dojji]

And Chris Sale could either be Chris Sale or need TJ surgery tomorrow.

[harmony]

And Chris Sale could either be Chris Sale or need TJ surgery tomorrow.

And the same could be written of Eduardo Rodriguez ... or Rick Porcello, David Price, Drew Pomeranz and Steven Wright.

 

Let's hope they're all healthy.

[cp176]

So a great logical arguement you two have going here and it has cleared things up for this simple fan. Using your logic, I ask myself, if one of these guys was on your roster - which could you more easily survive the loss of? I'm fine with Eddie - no trade required.

[Dojji]

Let me add this to the mix -- when was the last time a big acquisition of an ace for the Red Sox actually work as advertised?

 

To me, there hasn't been one since the Schilling trade. And as much good as he did for us, Schilling was brought in to pitch behind Pedro and be our #2 starter and big playoff horse behind our ace so he may not even count

 

If he doesn't, that's the Pedro trade itself nearly 20 years ago. And as great as that trade was for ut, there are circumstances behind the Pedro trade that may never happen again in our lifetimes, up to and including the collusion by the league to force the Expos to sell off assets they should never have been forced, or even allowed, to get rid of for the good of the league, all in the name of justifying the move to Washington. If they'd had a choice other than to trade Pedro, would the Expos have dealt him? You be the judge, but I'm saying hell no.

 

So since no big trade, and if I'm honest, no big acquisition of a bigtime supposed-to-be-an-ace has actually worked for this team in 18 years, why the hell are you people so eager to reach your hand right back onto the hot stove AGAIN? This town has proven over and over again that it needs to homegrow its aces. The big move for a TOTR starter works so rarely it's actually baffling to me that people haven't completely walked away from the idea by now.

[moonslav59]

Let me add this to the mix -- when was the last time a big acquisition of an ace for the Red Sox actually work as advertised?

 

To me, there hasn't been one since the Schilling trade. And as much good as he did for us, Schilling was brought in to pitch behind Pedro and be our #2 starter and big playoff horse behind our ace so he may not even count

 

Price is the only ace we've acquired since Schilling. so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

Lackey wasn't an ace when we signed him.

 

 

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I doubt E-Rod has reached his ceiling. Sale has reached his ceiling, and his decline in velocity, along with his violent delivery, might suggest a future decline in production, if not something more. So, I don't see a production crisscrossing as an impossible scenario, but I wouldn't expect it to occur in 2017. E-Rod has way too much talent, and upside, for me to include him in a trade for Sale along with Bradley Jr and Moncada.

 

The Schilling trade had an interesting story behind it. The Diamondbacks owners needed to move the contract. He took out loans to pay for Randy Johnson and Schilling's contracts and needed economic relief. The Yankees were involved in the trade talks too but they ended up signing Vazquez. The Red Sox were able to acquire Schilling without giving up a fair return due to the economics. I don't think that would happen today--the small market teams plan better or have more resources and thus aren't as compelled to trade a player without getting a fair return for that player.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Nick]

I doubt E-Rod has reached his ceiling. Sale has reached his ceiling, and his decline in velocity, along with his violent delivery, might suggest a future decline in production, if not something more. So, I don't see a production crisscrossing as an impossible scenario, but I wouldn't expect it to occur in 2017. E-Rod has way too much talent, and upside, for me to include him in a trade for Sale along with Bradley Jr and Moncada.

 

Porcello may have trouble duplicating his numbers next year but he is evolving into becoming top 20 type pitcher. I expect Price to have a better season overall.

E Rod will continue to get stronger and he has tremendous upside from where I sit. This is NOT the time to trade him. E Rod's 2017 season is when Lester broke out in his career.

 

I think we're undervaluing Pomeranz. Last year was first time he's had any success as a starter. He had not been stretched out in previous seasons. Throw in the factor of being trade into AL East parks, hitters, and pennant race, he had many adjustments to make. I expect him to evolve and have much better season.

 

I fully expect Wright to recover and get back to where he was last year before the All Star Game.

 

Our rotation looks good enough to get us to another Division Championship. Big question is if we can protect the lead with our bullpen. Maybe we should spend some money getting a top tier reliever. Right now I see us wasting 'quality' starts.

[moonslav59]

I doubt E-Rod has reached his ceiling. Sale has reached his ceiling, and his decline in velocity, along with his violent delivery, might suggest a future decline in production, if not something more. So, I don't see a production crisscrossing as an impossible scenario, but I wouldn't expect it to occur in 2017. E-Rod has way too much talent, and upside, for me to include him in a trade for Sale along with Bradley Jr and Moncada.

 

I'd avoid giving up ERod, and I'd try harder for Quintana.

 

The Schilling trade had an interesting story behind it. The Diamondbacks owners needed to move the contract. He took out loans to pay for Randy Johnson and Schilling's contracts and needed economic relief. The Yankees were involved in the trade talks too but they ended up signing Vazquez. The Red Sox were able to acquire Schilling without giving up a fair return due to the economics. I don't think that would happen today--the small market teams plan better or have more resources and thus aren't as compelled to trade a player without getting a fair return for that player.

 

There really hasn't been many team-controlled aces traded recently, except rentals at the deadline.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd love to have Quintana. But the cost will be so steep we probably can't do it. Even if you traded JBJ for Quintana straight up, you're basically trading 5 WAR for 5 WAR. And you have to give up a lot more than that. We'll probably have to stick with focusing on DH and the bullpen.

[moonslav59]

I doubt E-Rod has reached his ceiling. Sale has reached his ceiling, and his decline in velocity, along with his violent delivery, might suggest a future decline in production, if not something more. So, I don't see a production crisscrossing as an impossible scenario, but I wouldn't expect it to occur in 2017. E-Rod has way too much talent, and upside, for me to include him in a trade for Sale along with Bradley Jr and Moncada.

 

Porcello may have trouble duplicating his numbers next year but he is evolving into becoming top 20 type pitcher. I expect Price to have a better season overall.

E Rod will continue to get stronger and he has tremendous upside from where I sit. This is NOT the time to trade him. E Rod's 2017 season is when Lester broke out in his career.

 

I think we're undervaluing Pomeranz. Last year was first time he's had any success as a starter. He had not been stretched out in previous seasons. Throw in the factor of being trade into AL East parks, hitters, and pennant race, he had many adjustments to make. I expect him to evolve and have much better season.

 

I fully expect Wright to recover and get back to where he was last year before the All Star Game.

 

Our rotation looks good enough to get us to another Division Championship. Big question is if we can protect the lead with our bullpen. Maybe we should spend some money getting a top tier reliever. Right now I see us wasting 'quality' starts.

 

I'm very encouraged by our rotation. This is the first year in a while that I have not thought our greatest need was an ace. (I'd still kick the tires on Quintana, because those type of guys don't come available too often.)

 

As I've shown in the past, we had 6 starters who pitched like aces for a half season last year, but only Porcello did for a full season. While that's super promising, it's also a little bit worrisome.

 

Here are the numbers again:

 

Rank by ERA- per half season (90 IP unless noted):

 

 

3rd Wright 61 first half (25th in WAR)

5th Porcello 59 second half (1st WAR)

5th Pomeranz 62 first half w/SDP (14th in WAR)

13th Price 81 second half (9th WAR)

*16th Buchholz 67 second half (out of 135 starters with 40+ IP)

--would have placed 7th if pro-rated to 90 IP.

*19th ERod 73 second half (out of 85 starters with 70+ IP)

--would have placed 9th if pro-rated to 90 IP

31st Porcello 83 1st half (31st in WAR)

50th Price 98 1st half (11th in WAR)

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by moonslav59

[Dojji]

Let me add this to the mix -- when was the last time a big acquisition of an ace for the Red Sox actually work as advertised?

 

To me, there hasn't been one since the Schilling trade. And as much good as he did for us, Schilling was brought in to pitch behind Pedro and be our #2 starter and big playoff horse behind our ace so he may not even count

 

Price is the only ace we've acquired since Schilling. so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

Lackey wasn't an ace when we signed him.

 

 

 

Beckett was. Daisuke was supposed to be.