A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[moonslav59]

Good for him. He knows he's never going to be a big time MLB star so might as well take what he can get while he can.

 

Has anyone here ever thought about what it would be like to just pick up and go live in such a different environment as South Korea?

 

I have a friend who spent about 6 months working in S. Korea this year. She said it was very interesting and exciting. Just imagine living there and working there. Not knowing the language.

 

It's got to be strange.

 

My brother-in-law lived in Seoul for a few months. He loved it. He still plays their music all the time.

 

I picked up and moved from a log cabin in the Maine woods to Mexico City knowing very little Spanish. I lived there for almost 5 years. I loved it. I'd still be there, if my wife wanted to live there.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

From MLBTR...

 

 

Giants Have Considered Pursuing Pablo Sandoval Trade

By Jeff Todd | November 25, 2016 at 6:07pm CDT

 

The Giants have had internal discussions about trying to strike a deal for Red Sox third baseman Pablo Sandoval, according to Evan Drellich of the Boston Herald. It is not known whether the two organizations have talked about the former San Francisco star.

 

Sandoval, 30, is two years into what has been a disastrous free agent contract with the Red Sox. Entering the 2014-15 offseason, he was widely regarded as a high-quality option at the hot corner, with youth on his side and a resume full of strong contributions with the bat and the glove. The Giants pursued a reunion, but Sandoval ultimately took five years and $95MM to head east.

 

The productivity came to an end as soon as he reached Boston, however. Sandoval posted a decidedly mediocre .245/.292/.366 batting line in his first season with his new organization, and drew abysmal reviews for his fielding at the hot corner. He lost his starting job in camp heading into 2016, and ultimately underwent season-ending shoulder surgery.

 

Beyond Sandoval’s age and track record, there’s not much to commend him at this point. He has notably struggled with his weight before, but it has been a greater problem than ever with the Red Sox, and it’s hard to know what to make of the latest reports that he is in better shape. And now, Sandoval has the shoulder issue to work back from, too.

 

Still, the Giants have drawn good work from Sandoval in the past. While his contract is very clearly under water, he’s hardly owed a monumental sum. Including the buyout on a 2020 option, Sandoval is set to earn $58MM over the next three seasons. While there’s no chance that San Francisco will take that on in full, it’s not impossible to imagine the sides coming to a meeting of the minds.

[moonslav59]

Does Matt Cain have any chance of returning to glory?

 

Would a Pablo plus small pieces trade for Cain help balance the salary enough?

 

Cain is owed $27.5M/1 or $41M/2 with club option.

 

[Dojji]

I see little reason to believe Cain is a substantial upgrade over the guys we have now.

[harmony]

From MLBTR...

 

 

Giants Have Considered Pursuing Pablo Sandoval Trade

By Jeff Todd | November 25, 2016 at 6:07pm CDT

 

The Giants have had internal discussions about trying to strike a deal for Red Sox third baseman Pablo Sandoval, according to Evan Drellich of the Boston Herald. It is not known whether the two organizations have talked about the former San Francisco star.

 

Sandoval, 30, is two years into what has been a disastrous free agent contract with the Red Sox. Entering the 2014-15 offseason, he was widely regarded as a high-quality option at the hot corner, with youth on his side and a resume full of strong contributions with the bat and the glove. The Giants pursued a reunion, but Sandoval ultimately took five years and $95MM to head east.

 

The productivity came to an end as soon as he reached Boston, however. Sandoval posted a decidedly mediocre .245/.292/.366 batting line in his first season with his new organization, and drew abysmal reviews for his fielding at the hot corner. He lost his starting job in camp heading into 2016, and ultimately underwent season-ending shoulder surgery.

 

Beyond Sandoval’s age and track record, there’s not much to commend him at this point. He has notably struggled with his weight before, but it has been a greater problem than ever with the Red Sox, and it’s hard to know what to make of the latest reports that he is in better shape. And now, Sandoval has the shoulder issue to work back from, too.

 

Still, the Giants have drawn good work from Sandoval in the past. While his contract is very clearly under water, he’s hardly owed a monumental sum. Including the buyout on a 2020 option, Sandoval is set to earn $58MM over the next three seasons. While there’s no chance that San Francisco will take that on in full, it’s not impossible to imagine the sides coming to a meeting of the minds.

Perhaps the Giants discussed whom the Red Sox would need to add to Andrew Benintendi to complete a Pablo Sandoval trade.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Perhaps the Giants discussed whom the Red Sox would need to add to Andrew Benintendi to complete a Pablo Sandoval trade.

 

That would've ended the conversation very quickly.

[moonslav59]

I see little reason to believe Cain is a substantial upgrade over the guys we have now.

 

That's not the point. He'd possibly be starter depth, but the plus comes from saving some on Pablo's contract costs. I could say this...

 

I see little reason to believe Pablo is a substantial upgrade over the guys we have right now at 3B: Shaw, Holt, Hernandez and maybe eventually Moncada then Devers.

[moonslav59]

Perhaps the Giants discussed whom the Red Sox would need to add to Andrew Benintendi to complete a Pablo Sandoval trade.

 

Not if Cain was part of the deal. Pablo's $58M owed is reduced to $30M/3. We might still have to pitch in $3M a year plus give them Owens and Hembree, but I think they might listen.

 

I'm not suggesting this trade offer out of a belief that Cain is going to win a starter slot. I'm doing it to get out from under some of Pablo's absurd contract.

[Dojji]

That's not the point. He'd possibly be starter depth, but the plus comes from saving some on Pablo's contract costs. I could say this...

 

I see little reason to believe Pablo is a substantial upgrade over the guys we have right now at 3B: Shaw, Holt, Hernandez and maybe eventually Moncada then Devers.

 

I would be all for a move like this from purely the standpoint of expanding depth. We're gambling pretty hard on Moncada being ready sooner than later though, if we deal Sandoval.

 

If we do a trade like this I'd like to follow it up with a reasonable deal for Mike Moustakas. He's a very talented third baseman on the last year of his contract with a team that isn't competitive, he ought to be available for a fair price. If healthy Moustakas is an all star level third baseman with 25 HR power and a decent to good defensive skillset, is young enough to be well worth re-signing for 5 years, and would be a good compliment to what we already have going on in the infield.

 

Also I really doubt he's going to deal with major health issues relating from his current injuries. ACL tears are bad when they happen, and recovery from the injury itself can take awhile, but they don't tend to leave major aftereffects behind them. So it's a move worth exploring if you want to bridge to Moncada/Devers, or even just want Moustakas in its own right.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Dojji

[S5Dewey]

Perhaps the Giants discussed whom the Red Sox would need to add to Andrew Benintendi to complete a Pablo Sandoval trade.

 

Or perhaps the discussion was who the Sox might have to add to Pablo in order to get Johnny Cueto.

[harmony]

That would've ended the conversation very quickly.

Yep. But Evan Drellich and the Boston Herald attracted many hits by reporting that an unlikely trade was "discussed."

[Eddy Ballgame]

Yep. But Evan Drellich and the Boston Herald attracted many hits by reporting that an unlikely trade was "discussed."

 

My point was that the Sox aren't going to give up Benintendi to remove themselves from the Sandoval deal.

[S5Dewey]

Yep. But Evan Drellich and the Boston Herald attracted many hits by reporting that an unlikely trade was "discussed."

 

Ok. And was Benintendi mentioned in the conversation, or was that all conjecture?

[Kimmi]

Does Matt Cain have any chance of returning to glory?

 

Would a Pablo plus small pieces trade for Cain help balance the salary enough?

 

Cain is owed $27.5M/1 or $41M/2 with club option.

 

 

I have been Pablo's biggest supporter here, but if a reasonable deal can be made, I would do it. It's not because I don't think Pablo can return to decency and maybe even be an upgrade over what we had in 2016, but because I don't think Pablo will ever be given a truly fair shake while he's in Boston. Many of the fans and media have already made up their mind on him.

 

It's hard to be successful under that kind of scrutiny.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Ok. And was Benintendi mentioned in the conversation, or was that all conjecture?

 

Bentintendi isn't mentioned in the article.

[Dojji]

We in this baseball community need to have a long hard think about why we make it so hard for players. Passion is one thing, I get passion, but past a certain point it's pretty clear that we're our own worst enemy. When a player coming to Boston has to worry about surviving the fanbase as well as enduring the season, there's a problem.

[moonslav59]

I would be all for a move like this from purely the standpoint of expanding depth. We're gambling pretty hard on Moncada being ready sooner than later though, if we deal Sandoval.

 

If we do a trade like this I'd like to follow it up with a reasonable deal for Mike Moustakas. He's a very talented third baseman on the last year of his contract with a team that isn't competitive, he ought to be available for a fair price. If healthy Moustakas is an all star level third baseman with 25 HR power and a decent to good defensive skillset, is young enough to be well worth re-signing for 5 years, and would be a good compliment to what we already have going on in the infield.

 

Also I really doubt he's going to deal with major health issues relating from his current injuries. ACL tears are bad when they happen, and recovery from the injury itself can take awhile, but they don't tend to leave major aftereffects behind them. So it's a move worth exploring if you want to bridge to Moncada/Devers, or even just want Moustakas in its own right.

 

My thought was that if we traded Pablo and saved $20M or so, we could trade for Frazier or go big on someone like Turner. If we got Turner, we'd probably trade Moncada or move him to LF.

 

I think Moustakas would be too costly for a one year rental. If we could get him to extend, I'd listen.

.

I'm not content with going with Shaw-Holt-Hernandez at 3B for 2017. I also don't think Pablo improves our 3B outlook too much for 2017. I see his best chance at winning a slot is as our platoon DH with Young.

 

[moonslav59]

I have been Pablo's biggest supporter here, but if a reasonable deal can be made, I would do it. It's not because I don't think Pablo can return to decency and maybe even be an upgrade over what we had in 2016, but because I don't think Pablo will ever be given a truly fair shake while he's in Boston. Many of the fans and media have already made up their mind on him.

 

It's hard to be successful under that kind of scrutiny.

 

SF must think he has a shot at returning. They were very upset when he signed with BOS.

[S5Dewey]

Bentintendi isn't mentioned in the article.

 

That's what I suspected. So it was just Harmony coming around again trying to stir things up by mentioning players whom he knew probably wouldn't be traded.

[harmony]

Bentintendi isn't mentioned in the article.

That was my point. A vague reference to undisclosed "discussions" is not particularly enlightening. The San Francisco front office, like most front offices, has probably discussed scores of players this offseason.

[harmony]

That's what I suspected. So it was just Harmony coming around again trying to stir things up by mentioning players whom he knew probably wouldn't be traded.

At Over the Monster, jaaaaasper, who rarely agrees with me, opened the commentary with a similar hypothetical involving Yoan Moncada.

[Eddy Ballgame]

At Over the Monster, jaaaaasper, who rarely agrees with me, opened the commentary with a similar hypothetical involving Yoan Moncada.

 

The Sox aren't going to give up a top prospect to be able to move Sandoval. It doesn't make any sense. They'd release him first.

[moonslav59]

The Sox aren't going to give up a top prospect to be able to move Sandoval. It doesn't make any sense. They'd release him first.

 

Saving $58M by including a prospect is not an outlandish idea. Naming Moncada or Beni is.

 

If a deal ever does happen with SF, it might be simply us adding $30M towards the $58M owed.

 

Saving $18M is better than releasing him.

 

I don't see any other salary dump players on SF to take back to partially offset Pablo's deal, so that's why I brought up Cain. I'd rather get a player with some hope of contribution rather than just pay $25-30M.

 

I'd give Pablo, Abad and Hembree (both out of options) plus maybe up to $10M for Matt Cain.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Saving $58M by including a prospect is not an outlandish idea. Naming Moncada or Beni is.

 

If a deal ever does happen with SF, it might be simply us adding $30M towards the $58M owed.

 

Saving $18M is better than releasing him.

 

I don't see any other salary dump players on SF to take back to partially offset Pablo's deal, so that's why I brought up Cain. I'd rather get a player with some hope of contribution rather than just pay $25-30M.

 

I'd give Pablo, Abad and Hembree (both out of options) plus maybe up to $10M for Matt Cain.

 

I think they'd absolutely have to include a prospect, but names like Moncada & Bentintendi are laughable.

[harmony]

I think they'd absolutely have to include a prospect, but names like Moncada & Bentintendi are laughable.

Most Pablo Sandoval trade rumors are laughable.

Edited November 26, 2016 by harmony

[moonslav59]

Most Pablo Sandoval trade rumors are laughable.

 

Do you, in all seriousness, think it would take a Beni to get SF to take Pablo with no money involved?

[harmony]

Do you, in all seriousness, think it would take a Beni to get SF to take Pablo with no money involved?

Andrew Benintendi is a great prospect but he is not a sure-thing. That $56 million investment would carry risks.

 

We need to separate the questions of what the Giants would need and what the Red Sox would be willing to offer.

Edited November 26, 2016 by harmony

[Eddy Ballgame]

Most Pablo Sandoval trade rumors are laughable.

 

Sandoval going back to SF isn't as ridiculous as you seem to think it is. They currently have a need at 3rd, they are obviously built to compete now and there's a history there. I think that the Sox would have to pick up some of his remaining contract even if Cain is included and probably throw in an A ball prospect with some upside at the minimum, but mentioning Benintendi & Moncada IS laughable.

 

If the Sox decide to move either of those guys (Benintendi isn't going anywhere), then they'll be part of a package for an all star type player in return.

[a700hitter]

I want no part of Matt Cain.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Andrew Benintendi is a great prospect but he is not a sure-thing. That $56 million investment would carry risks.

 

We need to separate the questions of what the Giants would need and what the Red Sox would be willing to offer.

 

I'm not sure if you've ever seen Benintendi play, but he has one of the purist left handed swings I've seen in the last 25 years. If he's not a "sure thing" at this point, then no one is.