07/10 Sox vs. Rays - Break out the brooms.

[Bellhorn04]

But you are not pinning the blame on Price.

 

I will pin 2 losses on him out of 38. I have never disagreed that the 4-5 spots are the biggest problem.

[a700hitter]

I will pin 2 losses on him out of 38. I have never disagreed that the 4-5 spots are the biggest problem.

Thank you for clarifying. The manager is probably responsible for as many losses.

[StephenCurry30]

Price at least gives the team a chance to win. Our 4-5 don't even do that, the best option from the 4-5 so far has been OSullivan, and he sucks too, but at least he could go 5 innings of 3-4 runs and give the team a CHANCE. better than Buchholz's 2 inning 7 run starts.

[Slasher9]

Yes Price -- our #4. Such an astute observation.

 

What do you call a starter with a 4.3 ERA? A #1?

[SoxnCycles]

What do you call a starter with a 4.3 ERA? A #1?

 

Misunderstood.

[Bellhorn04]

What do you call a starter with a 4.3 ERA? A #1?

 

If he's David Price I think you do.

[mvp 78]

If he's David Price I think you do.

 

Adam Wainright has a worse ERA. He's STL's # 1.

 

Dallas Keuchel? Sonny Gray? Chris Archer? Volquez? Liriano? Weaver? Miller? They were all supposedly their team's #1's before the season and all have been far worse than Price.

[User Name]

in b4 "but they don't make 31 million"

[SoxnCycles]

Adam Wainright has a worse ERA. He's STL's # 1.

 

Dallas Keuchel? Sonny Gray? Chris Archer? Volquez? Liriano? Weaver? Miller? They were all supposedly their team's #1's before the season and all have been far worse than Price.

 

And I'm sure their fans are fine with it.

[mvp 78]

in b4 "but they don't make 31 million"

 

Would you rather pay Price at $31 or Weaver at $17 f***ing million dollars a year?

[User Name]

Barking up the wrong tree here. I think Price will be fine. I'm just stating the point people will obviously bring up.

[Bellhorn04]

FanGraphs now has Price's dollar value at $20.4 million.

[Spudboy]

FanGraphs now has Price's dollar value at $20.4 million.

 

I, for one, do not subscribe to WAR being the best way to assign value to a player.

 

What does that figure actually represent?

[Slasher9]

It's just a bit disconcerting how he has pitched thus far in year 1 of a 7 year contract. I think we all expected him to pitch most games like he did the last one. Instead it seems he has pitched too many games the first half as if he was pitching in the postseason....,

[Bellhorn04]

I, for one, do not subscribe to WAR being the best way to assign value to a player.

 

What does that figure actually represent?

 

His fWAR is 2.6. The dollar value is a multiple of that based on current free agent contract stats.

 

His fWAR is higher than his ERA would indicate because of his FIP. (I know, you stopped reading already.)

[Bellhorn04]

It's just a bit disconcerting how he has pitched thus far in year 1 of a 7 year contract. I think we all expected him to pitch most games like he did the last one. Instead it seems he has pitched too many games the first half as if he was pitching in the postseason....,

 

I like the way he's trending though. Plus his high K rate suggests that his arm and velocity are just fine.

[a700hitter]

And I'm sure their fans are fine with it.

And their suckass teams have far more serious flaws than an under performing #1.

[Kimmi]

He wasn't the problem in the first half of the season even though he didn't pitch like he usually does. As I have said before, even UN's one-eyed cat can see see that we have no #4 or 5.

 

You seem to think that there can only be one "problem" on the team. The fact that our biggest problem is our #4/5 slot does not preclude Price also being part of the problem.

[Kimmi]

If we had any degree of competence in the final 2 rotation spots, we would be blowing the doors of the division. The offense in the first half has been phenomenal. The top 4 batters in our lineup are hitting over .300 -- .304, .304. .329 and .332. I think it would be reasonable to expect that these numbers will fall back a little bit, and if they do people will jump to blame them -- the strongest part of the team. The problems with the team are obvious. The only question is whether DD can fix it. Yet people will look to blame our best pitcher, a 2 week batting slump or a couple of blown saves from our All Star closer. Ridiculous.

 

Hmm. Haven't you told me time and time again that I'm not allowed to post what other people will do or think?

[a700hitter]

You seem to think that there can only be one "problem" on the team. The fact that our biggest problem is our #4/5 slot does not preclude Price also being part of the problem.

Price's under performance is something he will fix or not. DD and management cannot fix him. The #4 and 5 slots are the problems that the FO needs to address. Whining about Price isn't going to do a thing. He is going to be what ever is going to be and he has a lot of talent and a good track record. Fixing him is not something to which the organization should be devoting much time. He will fix himself. The #4 and 5 slots will not fix themselves. I was identifying the biggest problem that the FO can and should address.

[Kimmi]

A few people suggested maybe Price should be doing better than a 4.7 ERA and it was interpreted as blaming him for everything.

 

Pretty much everyone except for a few devout supporters have acknowledged that Price has not pitched up to expectations. Even Price acknowledges that. When the team needs their ace to stop the bleeding and to be a stopper and he doesn't do that, that's a problem. It's not the biggest problem that the team has, but it's still a problem.

[a700hitter]

Hmm. Haven't you told me time and time again that I'm not allowed to post what other people will do or think?

I am picking up your bad habits.

[Kimmi]

And no one said that they said that.

 

Price is not a problem. Identifying him as any sort of problem is completely misguided. He is a top quality talent who will right his own course. We don't eve have names to pencil in for the 4th and 5th spots. if you check ahead for probable pitchers, you will frequently find TBA in those spots. There is the problem that needs fixing -- not Price.

 

No, not identifying him as part of the reason why this team had a June swoon is misguided.

 

I believe he will right his course, but that doesn't change what has happened.

 

I wonder why Price's name wasn't even mentioned in the All Star discussions this year?

[Kimmi]

Price's under performance is something he will fix or not. DD and management cannot fix him. The #4 and 5 slots are the problems that the FO needs to address. Whining about Price isn't going to do a thing. He is going to be what ever is going to be and he has a lot of talent and a good track record. Fixing him is not something to which the organization should be devoting much time. He will fix himself. The #4 and 5 slots will not fix themselves. I was identifying the biggest problem that the FO can and should address.

 

Ah, but now you're moving the goal posts.

[a700hitter]

No, not identifying him as part of the reason why this team had a June swoon is misguided.

 

I believe he will right his course, but that doesn't change what has happened.

 

I wonder why Price's name wasn't even mentioned in the All Star discussions this year?

You are playing some blame game if you identify Price as a problem. As I said earlier, the FO can't play any role in fixing Price. It is up to him whether he rights his ship. He is not going to be dropped from the rotation either. I identify problems that the FO can fix. Price is a top talent and I am pretty confident that he will fix himself. If you want to play the blame game, there is plenty to go around. Everyone has had a few bad games. Talent will find its own level. Stat heads are big on that ...no? There are no statistical projections for our #4 and 5 slots that give me encouragement, because we have nothing there.

[a700hitter]

Ah, but now you're moving the goal posts.

Not in the slightest. Just clarifying your misunderstanding.

[Kimmi]

You are playing some blame game if you identify Price as a problem. As I said earlier, the FO can't play any role in fixing Price. It is up to him whether he rights his ship. He is not going to be dropped from the rotation either. I identify problems that the FO can fix. Price is a top talent and I am pretty confident that he will fix himself. If you want to play the blame game, there is plenty to go around. Everyone has had a few bad games. Talent will find its own level. Stat heads are big on that ...no? There are no statistical projections for our #4 and 5 slots that give me encouragement, because we have nothing there.

 

You have absolutely moved the goal posts to an entirely different argument now about "what the FO can fix". No one has suggested that Price was going to be dropped from the rotation or that we needed to replace him.

 

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around, and Price gets his share of it. That's all we're saying.

[a700hitter]

You have absolutely moved the goal posts to an entirely different argument now about "what the FO can fix". No one has suggested that Price was going to be dropped from the rotation or that we needed to replace him.

 

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around, and Price gets his share of it. That's all we're saying.

I did not move any goal posts. I have repeatedly said two things:

 

1.If Price rights himself and we don't fix the 4 and 5 slots this team will go down the tubes regardless of whether Price wins the Cy Young award.

 

2. If DD fixes the 4 and 5 slots and Price continues to be spotty in the second half, this team will still make the playoffs.

 

Hence, my conclusion that Price is not THE problem. I have always said THE problem meaning the critical problem. Those have been my goal posts. They have not and will not move.

 

I never said that Price has been great or perfect, just that he is not THE problem. I repeat it and stand by it. The problem is the 4 and 5 slots. I am not engaging in a blame game which is really just a lot of whiny. I am calling out to the FO for the solution to a fixable problem, not whining that our ace has had 3 or 4 bad outings in the first half.

Edited July 12, 2016 by a700hitter

[Slasher9]

3 or 4 bad outings is what you expect from you 3 or 4 starter. Not your ace. I count 6.

5ip / 5er

3.2 / 8

7. / 6

4.2. / 6

2.1 / 6

6.1 / 4

[User Name]

Y'all need to Pokemon Go and chill.